Why Did Stan van Gundy Leave?

[Big NBA Fan]

First of all, I want to thank all of you for contributing to the thread I started a while back talking about whether Riley should have kept Lamar Odom and Caron Butler instead of trading for Shaq.

The following topic I am now starting deals with Stan's mysterious resignation in 2005-2006.

People have said Shaq pushed him out, yet Shaq continues to deny it.

What is the true story?

I thought Stan was a great coach for the Heat.

[CWebb2491]

Shaq played a huge role in that. I remember they had a pretty bad record to start the year and one thing lead to another. Fans were calling for Riley to take the reigns of the team because we had Shaq, Wade and brought in guys like Jay will, Posey, and walker so we were going all in.

[narmerguy]

You know, cause of family and stuff

[Heat3]

I'm sure the conflicts with some of the players like Shaq had an impact but the official story is that he wanted to spend time with his family because of some private issues. Knowing what I know about SVG, he is a big family guy and doesn't seem like someone that will go along with a lie to save face, then I believe this story is the main reason.

If they just up and fired him then I believe he would say that outright. Also wondering what the Heat had to gain by simply not saying that? It's not like they were going to seek out other candidates soon and Riley promotes from within. You'd think everyone on the coaching staff would know the real reason so no reason to go along with a charade.

[Vertical Limit]

Shaq simply didn't like him. SVG is a great guy and a great coach though, he gets majority of credit for Wade's career at least from me. Riley would have never in a million years handed the keys of the franchise to a rookie in the playoffs. We all know how Riley feels about rookies and he simply doesn't trust them, he trust vets.

All these moves that Riley was able to pull off started with Stan Van Gundy telling a rookie that we have nothing to lose, show us what you got. If Wade didn't perform the way he did against the Hornets and the Pacers, there would have been no chance in hell of acquiring Shaquille. Who knows if Alonzo comes back from retirement, and a bunch other moves that made us a championship franchise.

Honestly I hope we mailed SVG a championship ring, he deserves one for his role but he would probably feel very bitter of it.

[Tony15]

It was Shaq's doing; he simply didn't like SVG.....I also remember reading at the time that he was pissed at Stan for running the offense through Wade in Game 7 of the 2005 ECF although he did cracked ribs. At that point, it would be safe to assume that Pat was put in a position where he had choose between him or Shaq. You know the end result....

All that being said, I dislike the way we did SVG. He was a great coach for the team and I think we would've won it all the following year anyway with him at the helm. Like some have already said, he deserves credit for where we are as a franchise.

[twix2500]

I knew Stan when all of that went down (I was coaching his daughter). Its not as simple that he got burnt out, but it did have a lot to do with it. He is a man when he commits to basketball he is all in and puts his family to the side. But he also passionate about his family, it was hard for him to do both. That passion pushes his team, but it also after a few years the players start to block him out. Stan is a old school coach who very in your face. The veterans during the title run was tuning Stan out. I cant tell you who idea was it for Stan to step down, Riley or Stan. I can tell you Riley did not want to coach, I also can say Stan did not want to quit. But he was missing his family. Who knows if Riley himself recognized the situation or was it Stan himself. Remember Riley did not fire him but kept him on staff. To Vertical Limit question, yes he got a ring because he was still part of the organization.

I am not sure Stan wants to return, he is enjoying his family very much. He will only return if the situation is to his liking, if not then he will do what he has been doing living life.

[truthiness]

I think Stan was tired of Shaq's ****, just like he got tired of Dwight's **** in Orlando.

He claimed family reasons so he wouldn't throw Shaq under the bus. I suppose he still felt he owed Riley some gratitude for promoting him, and he didn't want to attack Riley or Riley's team. So he took the high road.

I like Stan A LOT. I couldn't believe teams weren't on him as soon as he was available the 1st time (the Magic got him as a 2nd choice after their 1st choice - college coach, don't remember his name - changed his mind). And I can't believe teams aren't chasing him now. The Nets, Cavs, Grizzlies were among teams looking for a coach this summer, and they picked much worse coaches than SVG.

I think Stan would be the 3rd best coach in the league after Pops and Carlisle, and maybe even tied for 2nd.

[G.cracker]

I heard this from people inside the team. It's not the entire picture, which is very complex, but was a part of it. In 2004-2005, Shaq had a legit MVP season and should have won it over Steve Nash. SVG's offense ran through Shaq, with Wade pretty much the only other live option. Remember that year we had severely declined Eddie Jones, Damon Jones chucking threes and one dimension fill ins like Dooling, Doleac, Laettner, etc, but we still were dominating and sweeping through the early rounds, which was when Shaq was hurt and didn't feel he could contribute as well. At that time, Wade took over on offense and when Shaq came back, SVG stayed with it, even after Wade got that rib injury against the Pistons. At the end of game 7 against the Pistons, Shaq was pissed that SVG put the ball in Wade and EJ's hands to win and didnt go down low to him.

We retooled that summer with more live players and SVG spent the first half of the season trying to acclimate J-Will, Posey and Antoine to Shaq and Wade, but Shaq was irate that the offense didn't once again simply go through him. He kept bringing this up to Riley and making it clear that he was ignoring SVG by always calling Riley "coach" in the media. It clearly frustrated Stan and Shaq would also make fun of the way Stan talked in practice and finally SVG went to Riley and said he couldn't take it anymore, but couldn't be around Shaq. Riley told Stan we weren't getting rid of Shaq and Stan felt Riley was not loyal.

Now the family stuff I'm sure is true because there were rumors his family was in trouble, but it wasn't that Riley kicked Stan out or even wanted to coach again, but he felt there was no one else to do it and save the season but him. However, I firmly believe that if Wade hadn't hurt his rib in game 5 of the Pistons series, we would have beat them in 6, been on to the Finals to play the Spurs, who the Pistons took to 7 games. Win or lose, getting to the Finals probably would have gotten Shaq to back down and respect SVG more and he would have toughed it out.

[DWadeno3]

Shaq simply didn't like him. SVG is a great guy and a great coach though, he gets majority of credit for Wade's career at least from me. Riley would have never in a million years handed the keys of the franchise to a rookie in the playoffs. We all know how Riley feels about rookies and he simply doesn't trust them, he trust vets.

All these moves that Riley was able to pull off started with Stan Van Gundy telling a rookie that we have nothing to lose, show us what you got. If Wade didn't perform the way he did against the Hornets and the Pacers, there would have been no chance in hell of acquiring Shaquille. Who knows if Alonzo comes back from retirement, and a bunch other moves that made us a championship franchise.

Honestly I hope we mailed SVG a championship ring, he deserves one for his role but he would probably feel very bitter of it.

I agree. Even looking back at it, it was a move that required balls and it paid dividends. It wasn't just the playoffs though, but the trust he put in Wade as the season went on. I think having a coach like SVG in your first couple of years, who trusted you but also pushed you and in a sense demanded greatness from you, really benefited Wade.

[Big NBA Fan]

I heard this from people inside the team. It's not the entire picture, which is very complex, but was a part of it. In 2004-2005, Shaq had a legit MVP season and should have won it over Steve Nash. SVG's offense ran through Shaq, with Wade pretty much the only other live option. Remember that year we had severely declined Eddie Jones, Damon Jones chucking threes and one dimension fill ins like Dooling, Doleac, Laettner, etc, but we still were dominating and sweeping through the early rounds, which was when Shaq was hurt and didn't feel he could contribute as well. At that time, Wade took over on offense and when Shaq came back, SVG stayed with it, even after Wade got that rib injury against the Pistons. At the end of game 7 against the Pistons, Shaq was pissed that SVG put the ball in Wade and EJ's hands to win and didnt go down low to him.

We retooled that summer with more live players and SVG spent the first half of the season trying to acclimate J-Will, Posey and Antoine to Shaq and Wade, but Shaq was irate that the offense didn't once again simply go through him. He kept bringing this up to Riley and making it clear that he was ignoring SVG by always calling Riley "coach" in the media. It clearly frustrated Stan and Shaq would also make fun of the way Stan talked in practice and finally SVG went to Riley and said he couldn't take it anymore, but couldn't be around Shaq. Riley told Stan we weren't getting rid of Shaq and Stan felt Riley was not loyal.

Now the family stuff I'm sure is true because there were rumors his family was in trouble, but it wasn't that Riley kicked Stan out or even wanted to coach again, but he felt there was no one else to do it and save the season but him. However, I firmly believe that if Wade hadn't hurt his rib in game 5 of the Pistons series, we would have beat them in 6, been on to the Finals to play the Spurs, who the Pistons took to 7 games. Win or lose, getting to the Finals probably would have gotten Shaq to back down and respect SVG more and he would have toughed it out.

Thanks for sharing that information and thanks to all of you for contributing to this thread as well.

I completely agree with you that Shaq deserved the MVP over Nash in 2005 mainly because the Lakers missed him a lot more than Dallas missed Nash and Nash had a much more talented supporting cast with Amare/Marion/Joe Johnson.

I also agree with you that the Heat would have beaten the Pistons in 2005 with a healthy Wade given that they were leading the series 3-2 before he got hurt and the fact that they beat them fairly easily in 2006 with Shaq and Wade both healthy and the fact that Shaq had declined a lot from 2005 to 2006.

Even IF the Heat somehow beat Detroit in 2005, they wouldn't have beaten the Spurs given Wade's injury and the fact that Shaq's thigh injury severely limited him through the playoffs.

I thought Stan did a phenomenal job in Miami and I feel he got more out of Shaq than Riley did.

Shaq owes Pat an apology for saying in his book that Riley fired Stan because he wanted to takeover the team, but I highly doubt he will ever apologize given how arrogant he is.

You can even make a case that Pat never should have traded for him given how he gave the Heat NOTHING after 2006 and the fact that Lamar Odom gave the Lakers a lot more than Shaq gave the Heat.

Plus, Lamar and Caron were good locker-room guys, unlike Shaq, who became a major disruption during his final season in Miami.

I can't believe that Shaq continues to deny he played a role in Stan's exit and continues to claim he never wanted to leave given that he DEMANDED A BUYOUT two months before he was traded.

All that being said, Shaq made a big mistake by forcing his way out of Miami. He should have stayed with the Heat or retired a lot earlier.

Thanks to all of you once again for participating in this thread!

[RexBoyWonder]

Shaq helped took us to heights that Lamar and Caron simply could not.

Here's a scary thought - What if Spo was the head coach instead of Stan when Wade was coming into the league? How would Wade career path would have gone?

[Tony15]

Shaq helped took us to heights that Lamar and Caron simply could not.

Here's a scary thought - What if Spo was the head coach instead of Stan when Wade was coming into the league? How would Wade career path would have gone?

Spo played a role in Wade's game excelling (shooting coach), but I definitely see your point here....

[CWebb2491]

Shaq helped took us to heights that Lamar and Caron simply could not.

Here's a scary thought - What if Spo was the head coach instead of Stan when Wade was coming into the league? How would Wade career path would have gone?

I know spo worked alot with wade on his jumpshot. That team in wade's rookie season was fun man, with Wade, Eddie, Caron, Lamar, Grant. How far do you think that team could have gone? Wade turned out to be an all time great at sg, caron was very very good in washington, lamar was a very talented ball handling forward with the lakers, eddie was eddie with the good defense and 3's. Im glad we won the chip in 06 and shaq played a part in us getting the big 3 with marion getting is jermaine and leading to cap space, but wonder if that team could have won it all.

[Vertical Limit]

Honestly I don't think we had any business going as far as we did against the Pacers in 04. Those players you listed are all good players, but Shaq alone commanded so much attention than each of them together.

Wade shocked the Pacers, no one really knew who Wade was until the playoffs began. The talk was Carmelo and Lebron all season long and neither of them reached the playoffs. Wade got past Baron Davis but the Pacers had no idea what they were about to see from a rookie and he then raised it to another level against them, literally one play away from forcing a Game 7 against the Eastern favorites.

In the following year I think the Pacers would have been better prepared had they faced that same team so Shaq would have definitely been necessary, hell we should have beat the Pistons that year with Shaq in SIX.

[DWadeno3]

Shaq helped took us to heights that Lamar and Caron simply could not.

Here's a scary thought - What if Spo was the head coach instead of Stan when Wade was coming into the league? How would Wade career path would have gone?

Spo played a role in Wade's game excelling (shooting coach), but I definitely see your point here....

I think Spo was great in that role as an assistant, doing individual work with Dwyane, but when it came to pushing him, demanding things from him, SVG's attitude was ideal for Wade. Spo is not the type to really push you and get in your face and I think Wade needed that a little bit.

[theFRANCHISE]

shaq labeled him the master of panic after he went with that ZO and SHAQ lineup in game 7 of the ECF in 2005. They started that 2006 season with a bad record too.

[Heat3]

shaq labeled him the master of panic after he went with that ZO and SHAQ lineup in game 7 of the ECF in 2005. They started that 2006 season with a bad record too.

We would have won game 7 if it wasn't for Damon Jones passing the damn ball to Rasheed in the closing seconds of the game

The 2006 season started bad because we had a ton of new players and Shaq was out hurt. SVG was replaced shortly before or after Shaq came back from injury. For all we know Shaq could have been holding out until SVG was replaced. I wouldn't put it past him. His final year here he dogged it until he got traded then suddenly was healthy to play.

[RJM]

Yep. Shaq badly hurt his ankle against Indiana and was out for a month. Damon Jones' turnover and a poorly-timed jumper from Wade pretty much sealed our doom. I still can't watch that final minute or so without breaking down into a fit of rage.

[theFRANCHISE]

shaq labeled him the master of panic after he went with that ZO and SHAQ lineup in game 7 of the ECF in 2005. They started that 2006 season with a bad record too.

We would have won game 7 if it wasn't for Damon Jones passing the damn ball to Rasheed in the closing seconds of the game

The 2006 season started bad because we had a ton of new players and Shaq was out hurt. SVG was replaced shortly before or after Shaq came back from injury. For all we know Shaq could have been holding out until SVG was replaced. I wouldn't put it past him. His final year here he dogged it until he got traded then suddenly was healthy to play.

Wade's abdominal injury made a difference too. God I totally forgot about damon jones, I just really got angry remembering that lol