dolphinatik wrote:James Posey
Lebron James
Shawn Marion
Glen Rice
Rasual Butler
Eddie House
Shaul Livingston
Jermain Oneal
Dorrell Wright
Kurt Thomas
These are what come to mind. Heat like to brink in vets that are already skilled having learning another system from another coaching team. Players rarely learn to play the game here. In a few cases players looked like bums here until they leave like Shawn Marion and Jermain Oneil only to show they still had it when they left for another team. We can do better getting the most out of our players.
A lot of these are terrible examples.
Lebron - just had the worst statistical season of since 2007. If he's "improved greatly" it certainly didn't show in his production. As for not learning to play here, I don't see how you can make that argument about him at all - he clearly learned a tremendous amount here about playing in the post and off the ball. There's just no basis in reality for suggesting he didn't learn anything here or that he improved "greatly" upon leaving, its not clear he improved at all.
Shawn Marion - This is a weird example considering he played all of 58 games for the Heat when he was already 30, not exactly an age or stretch of time that's prime for player development. In any event, in his longest stretch with Miami, for all of 42 games in 09, he averaged 12/8.7, which is pretty much as well as he played for the rest of his career. His best stretch came two years later, when he averaged a whopping 12.5/6.7. Again, if he "improved greatly" there's no evidence for it in his production.
Shaun Livingston - he came to the Heat when he was still working his way back from missing over a year of basketball after a catastrophic injury that many thought would end his career. He was clearly still years away from being a regular contributor, which he would not become on any team for another 2 years after leaving the Heat. To the extent he "improved greatly" after leaving Miami it seems pretty obvious that had a lot more to do with getting healthy and less to do with player development. Pretty good evidence of this is the fact that his "improvement" has been to basically get back to a production level comparable to what he was doing before the injury.
Jermaine O'Neal - This one is probably the worst of them all. JO averaged 13.6/7 with us and was a stud defensively; he had a great year. Since then he's averaged 5/4, 5/5, 8/5, 8/5. Even when you control for minutes he still hasn't been anywhere near as productive since he left as he was with us. Everyone remembers him having a terrible playoffs -- and he did -- but that had nothing to do with Miami's system or player development and everything to do with the fact that he was playing on a bum ankle that he hurt a few weeks before the end of the season. And this is another guy who came to the Heat in his 30s so I'm not sure why you think player development would be the emphasis?
Kurt Thomas & Eddie House - it's true that both these players improved after leaving Miami, but then, they also left the Heat right before they entered the prime of their careers. It's pretty typical for players to peak in years 25-29, and these two left at age 24. Neither of them improved so greatly that it would make sense to attribute it to anything other than natural player progression.
James Posey - I don't see it. Yet another guy who was 29 coming in, which is a little later for player development in any event, but setting that aside. The year before he joined the Heat he averaged 8/4. With the Heat he averaged 7/5 and 8/5. The year after he left the Heat he averaged 7/4. Then he had one year at 9/5 before his production fell off a cliff. He was basically the same player before and after his stint in Miami.
Rasual Butler - he got more minutes on other teams but his per minute production was basically the same. Another guy also who left right as he was entering his prime. He might have improved some after leaving even beyond natural progression with age, but I think saying he improved "greatly" is a stretch.
So out of that list, pretty much Rice and Dorell are the only ones with any validity.
