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Should Mia be interested in Gordon Hayward?

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Re: Should Mia be interested in Gordon Hayward? 

Post#61 » by Beenie » Thu Nov 17, 2016 4:58 pm

puppa bear wrote:No, that would be considered improper extrapolation of two non-exchangeable ideas.


The discussion began to steer towards the assertion that Winslow is better than Hayward was when he was the same age. For starters I disagree with that implication and cited the difference in their production based on the contrasting gap in their minutes played.

I then injected Booker into the conversation because he is a real time example of a player who is the same age as Winslow. And although he's certainly no facsimile of Hayward in terms of skill-set, Booker's game is much closer to resembling Hayward's than does Winslow's. The extrapolation now becomes a comparison between the future potential of two current 20 Y.O's rather than Winslow's future and Hayward's present reality.

My greater point however has to do with the short term future of the team which would be significantly elevated with the addition of a play making, perimeter ball handler like Hayward or Booker to a lesser degree. The stylistic fit on the court would be much better than what it is now with Winslow, and the offseason attractiveness of the team to potential free agents would also gets a tremendous spike.

Would I trade Winslow/Dragic for Hayward/Exum? Probably not until I've seen more of Exum. I was not high on him pre-draft & he's done very little to ease my concerns. If he shows he can hit the jumper more consistently, stays healthy and is a plus defender then I'm sold. But it's a weird combo of both teams trading potential for certainty at different positions. I like the age of Hayward/Exum better for us.


My thinking behind this swap is that Mia needs an adept, prime perimeter player and Utah could potentially lose Hayward for nothing in the offseason. Utah would almost certainly insist that any discussion involving Hayward with Mia includes Winslow. It obviously wouldn't work as a straight up deal because Winslow's on his rookie deal so Mia would have to couple his contract with one that closely matches Hayward's. Utah obviously has yet to get their returns on Exum who was highly drafted, so the idea of bolstering their PG position via trade is within reasonable consideration. Dragic and his contract is penciled in and Mia could then request to take back Exum to replace the developmental potential that they surrendered in Winslow and the position loss in Dragic.

See how there are more steps in the whole thought process.


Respectfully, I've considered the steps.
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Re: Should Mia be interested in Gordon Haywood? 

Post#62 » by idajazz » Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:54 pm

leoshes wrote:Haywood is not a 1st option, hell i dont think he is a 2nd option. Add to that he is not a good defender either. & then we do this only so we could have the right to max him out next year.
As a Heat fan for 30 years now i say no thank you.


Not a big fan of HAYWARD, but that's just because he looks like a missionary.
But you are completely wrong.
He is a great defender.
Pretty damn solid player all around.

My opinion is that Utah would pass, and try everything they can to keep him.
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Re: Should Mia be interested in Gordon Haywood? 

Post#63 » by leoshes » Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:58 pm

idajazz wrote:
leoshes wrote:Haywood is not a 1st option, hell i dont think he is a 2nd option. Add to that he is not a good defender either. & then we do this only so we could have the right to max him out next year.
As a Heat fan for 30 years now i say no thank you.


Not a big fan of HAYWARD, but that's just because he looks like a missionary.
But you are completely wrong.
He is a great defender.
Pretty damn solid player all around.

My opinion is that Utah would pass, and try everything they can to keep him.



I have to disagree with his defense. He is offensively gifted but not enough to max him out next year. Thats just my opinion.
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Re: Should Mia be interested in Gordon Haywood? 

Post#64 » by Beenie » Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:07 pm

idajazz wrote:
leoshes wrote:Haywood is not a 1st option, hell i dont think he is a 2nd option. Add to that he is not a good defender either. & then we do this only so we could have the right to max him out next year.
As a Heat fan for 30 years now i say no thank you.


Not a big fan of HAYWARD, but that's just because he looks like a missionary.
But you are completely wrong.
He is a great defender.
Pretty damn solid player all around.

My opinion is that Utah would pass, and try everything they can to keep him.


lol

Perhaps you're right, but considering that they lost Millsap and Jefferson for nothing in recent years they might consider a trade if they believe that he's seriously entertaining thoughts of leaving.
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Re: Should Mia be interested in Gordon Hayward? 

Post#65 » by twix2500 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:33 pm

I like Hayward game but I do not think he's worth being the first major move. Last year roster would of been a good fit.

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Re: Should Mia be interested in Gordon Hayward? 

Post#66 » by Flash4thewin » Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:53 pm

twix2500 wrote:I like Hayward game but I do not think he's worth being the first major move. Last year roster would of been a good fit.

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Hayward is not that bad and honestly might be the best type player we can get this offseason. The days of people taking paycuts to come here are long gone. You have to play to pay and even then you need to make sense to the FA. The best thing we have to offer now to any prospective free agent is location.
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Re: Should Mia be interested in Gordon Hayward? 

Post#67 » by Beenie » Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:57 pm

twix2500 wrote:I like Hayward game but I do not think he's worth being the first major move. Last year roster would of been a good fit.

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First major move was to resign Whiteside. But I do understand your point. Mia's next major move ideally would to be attain a superstar player. Those top tier players though are scarcely available. Hayward's tier is the next best thing and can be a conduit for landing a big fish.
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Re: Should Mia be interested in Gordon Hayward? 

Post#68 » by ndnow » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:00 pm

This is the age group we should be targeting. We certainly need to use our assets to trade up in the off-season, not sure if he is the option that we need.
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Re: Should Mia be interested in Gordon Hayward? 

Post#69 » by Beenie » Fri Dec 2, 2016 12:34 am

Pregame bump. Looking forward to further discussing this trade scenario after getting another look at the proposed players tonight.
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Re: Should Mia be interested in Gordon Hayward? 

Post#70 » by twix2500 » Fri Dec 2, 2016 5:31 am

Change my mind. I think the Heat should go after Hayward. His game compliments Winslow. He fits what the Heat do and gives the Heat another trade asset.

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Re: Should Mia be interested in Gordon Hayward? 

Post#71 » by puppa bear » Fri Dec 2, 2016 9:05 am

twix2500 wrote:Change my mind. I think the Heat should go after Hayward. His game compliments Winslow. He fits what the Heat do and gives the Heat another trade asset.

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Are you taking about as a FA or trying to trade for him? The OP was talking about him as a trade target.
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Re: Should Mia be interested in Gordon Hayward? 

Post#72 » by heat4life » Fri Dec 2, 2016 2:32 pm

I wouldn't trade for Hayward unless Utah is willing to take on any of our "expendables" (Mion, Williams, McBob, JJ, Reed, Ellington) as a centerpiece. They wouldn't and we need to keep our core of youth (Winslow, TJ, Richardson) and a half a year rental is not worth parting with Dragic who can net us a 1st round pick on a different deal. I think Hayward would be great as part of this team but I would go after him in free agency.

I am all for trading for a game changer if it presents itself but Hayward is just a nice scorer (which we need) and very good player that fits but he is not a game changer. He's more like a part of the puzzle piece, not our superstar we are looking for. If he was in Miami right now, we would be like the Utah Jazz. Not a game changer. I would add him to the roster in free agency with our cap though.
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Re: RE: Re: Should Mia be interested in Gordon Hayward? 

Post#73 » by twix2500 » Fri Dec 2, 2016 2:34 pm

puppa bear wrote:
twix2500 wrote:Change my mind. I think the Heat should go after Hayward. His game compliments Winslow. He fits what the Heat do and gives the Heat another trade asset.

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Are you taking about as a FA or trying to trade for him? The OP was talking about him as a trade target.

Free agency, doubt anyone will trade for him knowing he ready to cash in this summer.

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Re: Should Mia be interested in Gordon Hayward? 

Post#74 » by twix2500 » Fri Dec 2, 2016 4:10 pm

The OP thinking about trading for him which I wouldn't. But the topic questions should we be interested. Yes, this summer Riley should go after Hayward. Adding Hayward next to Dragic and Winslow (3rd year) in the starting lineup along w/ Whiteside Downlow that should be able to cause a lot of problems around the league. Then with Dirty Sprite, JRich and 2017 lotto pick off the bench the team depth looks better. And should still have cap to find a quality vet role player. I guess keep Waiters (if he opt-in) and JJ (get him in shape) around.

Should be a legit playoff team

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Re: Should Mia be interested in Gordon Hayward? 

Post#75 » by Beenie » Fri Dec 2, 2016 5:29 pm

heat4life wrote:I wouldn't trade for Hayward unless Utah is willing to take on any of our "expendables" (Mion, Williams, McBob, JJ, Reed, Ellington) as a centerpiece. They wouldn't and we need to keep our core of youth (Winslow, TJ, Richardson) and a half a year rental is not worth parting with Dragic who can net us a 1st round pick on a different deal. I think Hayward would be great as part of this team but I would go after him in free agency.

I am all for trading for a game changer if it presents itself but Hayward is just a nice scorer (which we need) and very good player that fits but he is not a game changer. He's more like a part of the puzzle piece, not our superstar we are looking for. If he was in Miami right now, we would be like the Utah Jazz. Not a game changer. I would add him to the roster in free agency with our cap though.



I understand the appeal of maintaining a young 'home grown' core. It's always more satisfying when a player develops from being young and undeveloped to ascending to star status or even just becoming highly productive while under your team's banner. The question though that Mia needs to be asking is what are the chances that Winslow and the others youngin's will develop into such players, and how long will it probably take if they can?

I happen to very much like Justise and would love it if he develops into the next Metta World Peace. But I simply don't appraise him to ever become that good and I have reservations about his potential to be a highly productive contributor over the next few years. That said, I would absolutely move him in a trade if the right offer were on the table. A hypothetical Hayward deal would certainly qualify.
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Re: Should Mia be interested in Gordon Hayward? 

Post#76 » by King_Supreme » Sat Dec 3, 2016 12:50 am

I don't think Miami should pursue Hayward in trade or FA. I understand Hassan is 27 and you would like to compete while he's in his prime, but adding guys like Hayward for max money locks this team into that dreaded treadmill zone. Obviously it's hard to get superstar players and you can win without a superstar(04 Pistons, '14 Spurs), however those were anomalies and a team like the Spurs had extreme depth(the highest player on that team was making 12 mil).

If Miami wants to become a title contender within the next 3-5 years, the Heat will have to either draft a star or trade/sign a star and develop/acquire a few cost controlled role players to compliment the team.
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Re: Should Mia be interested in Gordon Hayward? 

Post#77 » by Flash4thewin » Sat Dec 3, 2016 3:17 pm

King_Supreme wrote:I don't think Miami should pursue Hayward in trade or FA. I understand Hassan is 27 and you would like to compete while he's in his prime, but adding guys like Hayward for max money locks this team into that dreaded treadmill zone. Obviously it's hard to get superstar players and you can win without a superstar(04 Pistons, '14 Spurs), however those were anomalies and a team like the Spurs had extreme depth(the highest player on that team was making 12 mil).

If Miami wants to become a title contender within the next 3-5 years, the Heat will have to either draft a star or trade/sign a star and develop/acquire a few cost controlled role players to compliment the team.


The market is what the market is. Hayward is a max player in this market. So if we are reluctant to pay market value the next logical move would be to tank hard.
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Re: Should Mia be interested in Gordon Hayward? 

Post#78 » by gom » Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:49 pm

I think Hayward would be a 25% cap player, not a 30% cap player. I don't think he's ever been in an all-star game.
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Re: Should Mia be interested in Gordon Hayward? 

Post#79 » by heat4life » Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:04 pm

gom wrote:I think Hayward would be a 25% cap player, not a 30% cap player. I don't think he's ever been in an all-star game.


He's the SF version of Goran Dragic. Borderline allstars that will never make it to the game because of their team records and/or depth in the conference at their positions.
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Re: Should Mia be interested in Gordon Hayward? 

Post#80 » by gom » Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:12 pm

heat4life wrote:
gom wrote:I think Hayward would be a 25% cap player, not a 30% cap player. I don't think he's ever been in an all-star game.


He's the SF version of Goran Dragic. Borderline allstars that will never make it to the game because of their team records and/or depth in the conference at their positions.


Riley will end up signing free agent Rudy Gay instead at something like 3/50 rather than Hayward's $25M+. Oh well.
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