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Dragic impression

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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#21 » by HIF » Wed May 3, 2017 6:28 am

I'd be a good PG on the Spurs team.
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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#22 » by QUIZ » Wed May 3, 2017 2:52 pm

HIF wrote:I'd be a good PG on the Spurs team.

Then you should join them, Tony Parker's not cutting it. :)
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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#23 » by Flash4thewin » Thu May 4, 2017 10:13 pm

So what is the consensus on the Dragic trade? We are giving up 2 first round draft picks for him and lets not forget we are a lottery team. Was it steal or did we get robbed?
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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#24 » by leoshes » Fri May 5, 2017 1:35 am

If Pat wants to keep this core together them im fine keeping him. But if not he is our 2nd best trading chip. I am a fan of him offensively, but his defense get under my skin.
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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#25 » by BaDaBo » Sat May 6, 2017 12:24 am

Flash4thewin wrote:So what is the consensus on the Dragic trade? We are giving up 2 first round draft picks for him and lets not forget we are a lottery team. Was it steal or did we get robbed?


Boshes condition complicated things a lot but ATM it looks like a fair trade The heat did sacrifice a bit getting him, but he did produce on a expected level in 3years of 3,5 years he was here IMO.

Butt it's still too soon to say. Like every trade including picks you have to wait to see. Imagine us sucking in 2017/18 & 2020/21 and giving the 2018 & 2021 pick to the Suns and them drafting a Darko Milacic & Andrea Bargniani type players, then the trade looks awesome right, or us keeping those pics and drafting two Beasleys ;). Or it could easily go the other way.

Ask again in 2022 ;)
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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#26 » by Wildlinger » Sat May 6, 2017 4:41 am

QUIZ wrote:He's cool, not a star but not bad either. 16 and 6 guy on a good team, 20 and 6 guy as the number one on a bad team.


Dragic was a 20 and 6 guy on a 48 wins Suns team. And I also wouldn't qualify this year's Heat team as a bad team.
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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#27 » by QUIZ » Sat May 6, 2017 6:00 am

Wildlinger wrote:
QUIZ wrote:He's cool, not a star but not bad either. 16 and 6 guy on a good team, 20 and 6 guy as the number one on a bad team.


Dragic was a 20 and 6 guy on a 48 wins Suns team. And I also wouldn't qualify this year's Heat team as a bad team.

Great teams win titles, awful teams win the lottery, and as Pat Riley said, everyone inbetween is in purgatory.

The best player on a 9th seed isn't good enough, it's all about expectations though.
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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#28 » by Wildlinger » Sat May 6, 2017 7:14 am

QUIZ wrote:The best player on a 9th seed isn't good enough, it's all about expectations though.


Good enough for what? Championship? Sure, it's not good enough for something like that. But Dragic wasn't brought over to be the #1 option, he was brought to Miami to be a 3rd option on a contending team. He's good enough to be that. 3 years ago 20 and 6 was good enough to get him 3rd team All NBA and if Pat brings back the core from this season, it will be good enough for a top 4-5 team in the east. Every season can't just be about championship or bust, can it? That's a sure way to miss a lot of good or sometimes even great basketball.
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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#29 » by HIF » Sat May 6, 2017 9:34 am

Wildlinger wrote:
QUIZ wrote:He's cool, not a star but not bad either. 16 and 6 guy on a good team, 20 and 6 guy as the number one on a bad team.


Dragic was a 20 and 6 guy on a 48 wins Suns team. And I also wouldn't qualify this year's Heat team as a bad team.


We were so good we couldn't make the playoffs in the East.
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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#30 » by HIF » Sat May 6, 2017 9:36 am

Wildlinger wrote:
QUIZ wrote:The best player on a 9th seed isn't good enough, it's all about expectations though.


Good enough for what? Championship? Sure, it's not good enough for something like that. But Dragic wasn't brought over to be the #1 option, he was brought to Miami to be a 3rd option on a contending team. He's good enough to be that. 3 years ago 20 and 6 was good enough to get him 3rd team All NBA and if Pat brings back the core from this season, it will be good enough for a top 4-5 team in the east. Every season can't just be about championship or bust, can it? That's a sure way to miss a lot of good or sometimes even great basketball.


If I was Slovenian I'd be raving about him too.

Loul Deng was a great player but still a 4th wheel at best on a championship winning team.
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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#31 » by Wildlinger » Sat May 6, 2017 9:46 am

HIF wrote:
Wildlinger wrote:
QUIZ wrote:The best player on a 9th seed isn't good enough, it's all about expectations though.


Good enough for what? Championship? Sure, it's not good enough for something like that. But Dragic wasn't brought over to be the #1 option, he was brought to Miami to be a 3rd option on a contending team. He's good enough to be that. 3 years ago 20 and 6 was good enough to get him 3rd team All NBA and if Pat brings back the core from this season, it will be good enough for a top 4-5 team in the east. Every season can't just be about championship or bust, can it? That's a sure way to miss a lot of good or sometimes even great basketball.


If I was Slovenian I'd be raving about him too.


You don't have to be slovenian you just have to be objective. Try it sometimes. It's not that hard.
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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#32 » by HIF » Sat May 6, 2017 9:49 am

Wildlinger wrote:
HIF wrote:
Wildlinger wrote:
Good enough for what? Championship? Sure, it's not good enough for something like that. But Dragic wasn't brought over to be the #1 option, he was brought to Miami to be a 3rd option on a contending team. He's good enough to be that. 3 years ago 20 and 6 was good enough to get him 3rd team All NBA and if Pat brings back the core from this season, it will be good enough for a top 4-5 team in the east. Every season can't just be about championship or bust, can it? That's a sure way to miss a lot of good or sometimes even great basketball.


If I was Slovenian I'd be raving about him too.


You don't have to be Slovenian you just have to be objective. Try it sometimes. It's not that hard.


Are you Slovenian?

I am objective regarding the Dragon. It's people thinking he's a second tier level player who are crazy.
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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#33 » by HIF » Sat May 6, 2017 9:53 am

Wildlinger wrote:
HIF wrote:
Wildlinger wrote:
Good enough for what? Championship? Sure, it's not good enough for something like that. But Dragic wasn't brought over to be the #1 option, he was brought to Miami to be a 3rd option on a contending team. He's good enough to be that. 3 years ago 20 and 6 was good enough to get him 3rd team All NBA and if Pat brings back the core from this season, it will be good enough for a top 4-5 team in the east. Every season can't just be about championship or bust, can it? That's a sure way to miss a lot of good or sometimes even great basketball.


If I was Slovenian I'd be raving about him too.


You don't have to be Slovenian you just have to be objective. Try it sometimes. It's not that hard.


I just checked your posting and And1 history.

Goran Dragic and Luka Doncic threads - I had to check to see if Doncic was Slovenian.

I understand your position but layoff those of us that are neutral and post what we see.

You are a Slovenian player fan, pure and simple.
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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#34 » by Wildlinger » Sat May 6, 2017 10:08 am

HIF wrote:
Wildlinger wrote:
HIF wrote:
If I was Slovenian I'd be raving about him too.


You don't have to be Slovenian you just have to be objective. Try it sometimes. It's not that hard.


I just checked your posting and And1 history.

Goran Dragic and Luka Doncic threads - I had to check to see if Doncic was Slovenian.

I understand your position but layoff those of us that are neutral and post what we see.

You are a Slovenian player fan, pure and simple.


Well, my mother is Italian and my father is Austrian. I'm not quite sure what that makes me, but it sure doesn't make me a bigot like you.
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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#35 » by HIF » Sat May 6, 2017 10:23 am

Wildlinger wrote:
HIF wrote:
Wildlinger wrote:
You don't have to be Slovenian you just have to be objective. Try it sometimes. It's not that hard.


I just checked your posting and And1 history.

Goran Dragic and Luka Doncic threads - I had to check to see if Doncic was Slovenian.

I understand your position but layoff those of us that are neutral and post what we see.

You are a Slovenian player fan, pure and simple.


Well, my mother is Italian and my father is Austrian. I'm not quite sure what that makes me, but it sure doesn't make me a bigot like you.


:roll:

A bigot because I don't rate Goran as much as a slovenian player fan.

a Bigot: one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance


You're way out of line but I'll let it go and return to lurk mode.
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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#36 » by Wildlinger » Sat May 6, 2017 10:34 am

HIF wrote:A bigot because I don't rate Goran as much as a slovenian player fan.


No, you're a bigot because you resort to ad hominem attacks on individual's nationality every single time somebody argues against your ludicrous Dragic takes. You did the exact same thing in this thread. You never debate the merits of an argument but rather (like a bigot) resort to talking about their perceived nationality which has absolutely nothing to do with a particular argument. That's the definition of prejudice and bigotry, as well as the reason why I don't like to post on this Heat board and prefer reddit where silly posts like yours get downvoted into oblivion.
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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#37 » by QUIZ » Sat May 6, 2017 11:11 am

Wildlinger wrote:
QUIZ wrote:The best player on a 9th seed isn't good enough, it's all about expectations though.


Good enough for what? Championship? Sure, it's not good enough for something like that. But Dragic wasn't brought over to be the #1 option, he was brought to Miami to be a 3rd option on a contending team. He's good enough to be that. 3 years ago 20 and 6 was good enough to get him 3rd team All NBA and if Pat brings back the core from this season, it will be good enough for a top 4-5 team in the east. Every season can't just be about championship or bust, can it? That's a sure way to miss a lot of good or sometimes even great basketball.

No, every season for me isn't about championship or bust, but it is that way for Pat Riley. Like I said it's about expectations.

I like Goran and I really liked this past season but I'm taking his entire body of work as a Heat player into account when judging him.

We had posters earlier this season putting up stats and trying to convince themselves that Goran was better than Damien Lillard, I just try and not get caught up in the excitement.

When Goran was a 2nd option back when he was first traded to the Heat and then again when Bosh went down the 2nd time, he averaged 16 and 6 and 17 and 7 respectively. Leveling off at 15 and 6 in the playoffs.

When Goran was a 3rd option behind Wade and Bosh he was a 12 and 5 player.

Finally when Goran was a 1st option, completely free to do what he wanted he averaged 20 and 6 again, something he could only do under those circumstances.

That is important to remember because 20 and 6 isn't some baseline for Goran, he doesn't roll out of bed and put that up, it's something he can certainly do but only under certain specific circumstances.
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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#38 » by Wildlinger » Sat May 6, 2017 11:55 am

QUIZ wrote:
Wildlinger wrote:
QUIZ wrote:The best player on a 9th seed isn't good enough, it's all about expectations though.


Good enough for what? Championship? Sure, it's not good enough for something like that. But Dragic wasn't brought over to be the #1 option, he was brought to Miami to be a 3rd option on a contending team. He's good enough to be that. 3 years ago 20 and 6 was good enough to get him 3rd team All NBA and if Pat brings back the core from this season, it will be good enough for a top 4-5 team in the east. Every season can't just be about championship or bust, can it? That's a sure way to miss a lot of good or sometimes even great basketball.

No, every season for me isn't about championship or bust, but it is that way for Pat Riley. Like I said it's about expectations.

I like Goran and I really liked this past season but I'm taking his entire body of work as a Heat player into account when judging him.

We had posters earlier this season putting up stats and trying to convince themselves that Goran was better than Damien Lillard, I just try and not get caught up in the excitement.

When Goran was a 2nd option back when he was first traded to the Heat and then again when Bosh went down the 2nd time, he averaged 16 and 6 and 17 and 7 respectively. Leveling off at 15 and 6 in the playoffs.

When Goran was a 3rd option behind Wade and Bosh he was a 12 and 5 player.

Finally when Goran was a 1st option, completely free to do what he wanted he averaged 20 and 6 again, something he could only do under those circumstances.

That is important to remember because 20 and 6 isn't some baseline for Goran, he doesn't roll out of bed and put that up, it's something he can certainly do but only under certain specific circumstances.


It's clear that Dragic didn't play well with Wade but there's a very good reason for that. Every point guard needs the ball to be successful and Dragic didn't see much of it when he was playing with Wade who had a humongous usage rate last season. Wade was actually the de facto point guard last season. His usage was on par with Kobe's and bigger than guys like Westbrook, LeBron and Durant.

Dragic on the other side recorded the lowest usage of his career during the 1st part of 15-16 season. I think that's a huge part of why Dragic underperformed. Throughout his career he always performed better and was more efficient with a bigger usage. IMO there are maybe 3-4 players in the league who can perform at the same level no matter what system or role you put them in. Dragic is obviously not one of those players. But under the right circumstances I think he could be even better than he was last season.

I think that a team with him as their best player can be a top 4-5 team in the east and I also think that we'll get to see that next season. But on a championship level team Dragic has to be your 3rd best player. Maybe even 4th if you look at the big 4 in Oakland. I have a feeling that some Heat fans are angry at Dragic cause he's not LeBron... or even Wade for that matter. They're angry cause they had LeBron and Wade and now they have a skinny Euro guy as their best player. And Dragic is never ever (in a million years) going to look good when you compare him to the all time greats. But I have to finish with my previous point... IMO that's a sure way to miss a lot of good or sometimes even great basketball.
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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#39 » by HIF » Sat May 6, 2017 12:07 pm

Wildlinger wrote:
QUIZ wrote:
Wildlinger wrote:
Good enough for what? Championship? Sure, it's not good enough for something like that. But Dragic wasn't brought over to be the #1 option, he was brought to Miami to be a 3rd option on a contending team. He's good enough to be that. 3 years ago 20 and 6 was good enough to get him 3rd team All NBA and if Pat brings back the core from this season, it will be good enough for a top 4-5 team in the east. Every season can't just be about championship or bust, can it? That's a sure way to miss a lot of good or sometimes even great basketball.

No, every season for me isn't about championship or bust, but it is that way for Pat Riley. Like I said it's about expectations.

I like Goran and I really liked this past season but I'm taking his entire body of work as a Heat player into account when judging him.

We had posters earlier this season putting up stats and trying to convince themselves that Goran was better than Damien Lillard, I just try and not get caught up in the excitement.

When Goran was a 2nd option back when he was first traded to the Heat and then again when Bosh went down the 2nd time, he averaged 16 and 6 and 17 and 7 respectively. Leveling off at 15 and 6 in the playoffs.

When Goran was a 3rd option behind Wade and Bosh he was a 12 and 5 player.

Finally when Goran was a 1st option, completely free to do what he wanted he averaged 20 and 6 again, something he could only do under those circumstances.

That is important to remember because 20 and 6 isn't some baseline for Goran, he doesn't roll out of bed and put that up, it's something he can certainly do but only under certain specific circumstances.


It's clear that Dragic didn't play well with Wade but there's a very good reason for that. Every point guard needs the ball to be successful and Dragic didn't see much of it when he was playing with Wade who had a humongous usage rate last season. Wade was actually the de facto point guard last season. His usage was on par with Kobe's and bigger than guys like Westbrook, LeBron and Durant.

Dragic on the other side recorded the lowest usage of his career during the 1st part of 15-16 season. I think that's a huge part of why Dragic underperformed. Throughout his career he always performed better and was more efficient with a bigger usage. IMO there are maybe 3-4 players in the league who can perform at the same level no matter what system or role you put them in. Dragic is obviously not one of those players. But under the right circumstances I think he could be even better than he was last season.

I think that a team with him as their best player can be a top 4-5 team in the east and I also think that we'll get to see that next season. But on a championship level team Dragic has to be you're 3rd best player. Maybe even 4th if you look at the big 4 in Oakland. I have a feeling that some Heat fans are angry at Dragic cause he's not LeBron... or even Wade for that matter. They're angry cause they had LeBron and Wade and now they have a skinny Euro guy as their best player. And Dragic is never ever (in a million years) going to look good when you compare him to the all time greats. But I have to finish with my previous point... IMO that's a sure way to miss a lot of good or sometimes even great basketball.


That's what the bigot has been saying all the time.
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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#40 » by Wildlinger » Sat May 6, 2017 1:29 pm

HIF wrote:That's what the bigot has been saying all the time.


Really? I haven't noticed. Your response to my original post where I also wrote that Dragic was brought over as the 3rd option on a contending team was "Are you Slovenian". Besides, 3rd option on a championship level team has to be an All Star (or All NBA) level player like Love on the Cavs or Thompson/Green on the Warriors. And that's certainly not average like you claim Dragic is. So I guess you're changing your tune now.

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