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Dragic impression

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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#41 » by contract » Sat May 6, 2017 3:03 pm

Flash4thewin wrote:So what is the consensus on the Dragic trade? We are giving up 2 first round draft picks for him and lets not forget we are a lottery team. Was it steal or did we get robbed?

What we got:

A near all star level PG



What we gave up:

2 mid 1st round picks (likely)



On its face ...that's not a bad deal.
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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#42 » by contract » Sat May 6, 2017 3:07 pm

HIF wrote:If I was Slovenian I'd be raving about him too.

:nonono:
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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#43 » by contract » Sat May 6, 2017 3:10 pm

HIF wrote:I am objective regarding the Dragon.

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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#44 » by Mos_Heat » Sat May 6, 2017 3:15 pm

Flash4thewin wrote:So what is the consensus on the Dragic trade? We are giving up 2 first round draft picks for him and lets not forget we are a lottery team. Was it steal or did we get robbed?

ok trade
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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#45 » by contract » Sat May 6, 2017 3:32 pm

Wildlinger wrote:
Spoiler:
QUIZ wrote:
Wildlinger wrote:
Good enough for what? Championship? Sure, it's not good enough for something like that. But Dragic wasn't brought over to be the #1 option, he was brought to Miami to be a 3rd option on a contending team. He's good enough to be that. 3 years ago 20 and 6 was good enough to get him 3rd team All NBA and if Pat brings back the core from this season, it will be good enough for a top 4-5 team in the east. Every season can't just be about championship or bust, can it? That's a sure way to miss a lot of good or sometimes even great basketball.

No, every season for me isn't about championship or bust, but it is that way for Pat Riley. Like I said it's about expectations.

I like Goran and I really liked this past season but I'm taking his entire body of work as a Heat player into account when judging him.

We had posters earlier this season putting up stats and trying to convince themselves that Goran was better than Damien Lillard, I just try and not get caught up in the excitement.

When Goran was a 2nd option back when he was first traded to the Heat and then again when Bosh went down the 2nd time, he averaged 16 and 6 and 17 and 7 respectively. Leveling off at 15 and 6 in the playoffs.

When Goran was a 3rd option behind Wade and Bosh he was a 12 and 5 player.

Finally when Goran was a 1st option, completely free to do what he wanted he averaged 20 and 6 again, something he could only do under those circumstances.

That is important to remember because 20 and 6 isn't some baseline for Goran, he doesn't roll out of bed and put that up, it's something he can certainly do but only under certain specific circumstances.


It's clear that Dragic didn't play well with Wade but there's a very good reason for that. Every point guard needs the ball to be successful and Dragic didn't see much of it when he was playing with Wade who had a humongous usage rate last season. Wade was actually the de facto point guard last season. His usage was on par with Kobe's and bigger than guys like Westbrook, LeBron and Durant.

Dragic on the other side recorded the lowest usage of his career during the 1st part of 15-16 season. I think that's a huge part of why Dragic underperformed. Throughout his career he always performed better and was more efficient with a bigger usage. IMO there are maybe 3-4 players in the league who can perform at the same level no matter what system or role you put them in. Dragic is obviously not one of those players. But under the right circumstances I think he could be even better than he was last season.

I think that a team with him as their best player can be a top 4-5 team in the east and I also think that we'll get to see that next season. But on a championship level team Dragic has to be you're 3rd best player. Maybe even 4th if you look at the big 4 in Oakland. I have a feeling that some Heat fans are angry at Dragic cause he's not LeBron... or even Wade for that matter. They're angry cause they had LeBron and Wade and now they have a skinny Euro guy as their best player. And Dragic is never ever (in a million years) going to look good when you compare him to the all time greats. But I have to finish with my previous point... IMO that's a sure way to miss a lot of good or sometimes even great basketball.

I think the issue is that some fans question Dragic's ability to be great in any role. In other words, he looks good not great when you run the entire offense around him, and as a #2 or #3 he's good not great.

My biggest issue with Dragic as a #2 or #3 his defense stands out more. It's a lot easier to look the other way on defense when a guy is scoring 20+ points per game than when he's scoring 15.

Still, there's no rule that says a player can't keep improving into his 30s.
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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#46 » by contract » Sat May 6, 2017 3:34 pm

Oh and ... Happy Birthday Goran! :lol:
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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#47 » by Wildlinger » Sat May 6, 2017 7:00 pm

contract wrote:I think the issue is that some fans question Dragic's ability to be great in any role. In other words, he looks good not great when you run the entire offense around him, and as a #2 or #3 he's good not great.


Those are valid concerns but I think it all depends on who the #1 and #2 options are. If you put him on a contending team with 2 ISO heavy star players than Dragic probably won’t look good. But in a pace&space Warriors style system like Spo ran this year Dragic would look much better, possibly even average something like 18 and 5, which I think is very good for a #3 option. He’s definitely not the type of a 3&D spot up PG who could look good in an ISO heavy offense with Wade and Bosh in particular.

contract wrote:My biggest issue with Dragic as a #2 or #3 his defense stands out more. It's a lot easier to look the other way on defense when a guy is scoring 20+ points per game than when he's scoring 15.


As far as Dragic’s defense goes I also think you have valid concerns but I’ve seen considerable improvement in this area. His switching was on point most of the time and more importantly he didn’t get exploited when he switched on bigger guys. I actually saw some bigs struggle to take him in the post when he switched on them and they tried to ISO. I saw LeBron settle for a tough turnaround jumper when he saw how hard he’d have to work to take Dragic all the way to the post. His strength is underrated and he looks like he put on at least a few of pounds of muscle in the past couple of years. On the other hand Dragic will always struggle against smaller and quicker guards but hey, most of the league does. He defended the 3 point line well though. Opponents shot 2.9% worse from three when Dragic was defending their shot which is actually quite good for a perimeter defender.
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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#48 » by twix2500 » Sun May 7, 2017 12:58 pm

Love Dragic, He is a player who can ave 20 without taking ton of shots, which allow others to contribute if capable. Dont know if he is capable of spending more energy in his game to take more shots and stay efficient. I Did notice when he exceeded his average shot attempts he seems tired and miss plenty of shots afterwards. But overall glad we made the move for him.
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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#49 » by TroubleS0me » Sat May 13, 2017 12:03 am

I give him a B+ / A-
played well this season, just needs to push him more(23-24 ppg next season & 8 assist)
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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#50 » by twix2500 » Sun May 14, 2017 7:03 pm

TroubleS0me wrote:I give him a B+ / A-
played well this season, just needs to push him more(23-24 ppg next season & 8 assist)


He played to that average once he started playing well. He just needs to stop starting off slow.
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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#51 » by Beenie » Tue May 16, 2017 5:36 am

He's on the wrong side of 30 and plays a physically taxing style so a not too distance future diminishing of production seems imminent by my estimation. I would look to trade him now. A year too soon is better than a year too late.
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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#52 » by BaDaBo » Tue May 16, 2017 8:46 am

Beenie wrote:He's on the wrong side of 30 and plays a physically taxing style so a not too distance future diminishing of production seems imminent by my estimation. I would look to trade him now. A year too soon is better than a year too late.


Maybe, but let me leave this here as food for thought:

Minutes Played in the NBA at the age 30:

Dragic: 17.868 regular season + 709 playoff = 18.577 minutes
LeBron: 35.176 regular season + 7.563 playoff = 42.739 minutes
T. Parker: 26.527 regular season + 5.522 playoff = 32.049 minutes
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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#53 » by HIF » Tue May 16, 2017 11:16 am

BaDaBo wrote:
Beenie wrote:He's on the wrong side of 30 and plays a physically taxing style so a not too distance future diminishing of production seems imminent by my estimation. I would look to trade him now. A year too soon is better than a year too late.


Maybe, but let me leave this here as food for thought:

Minutes Played in the NBA at the age 30:

Dragic: 17.868 regular season + 709 playoff = 18.577 minutes
LeBron: 35.176 regular season + 7.563 playoff = 42.739 minutes
T. Parker: 26.527 regular season + 5.522 playoff = 32.049 minutes


You're comparing him with future HOF, milti title winners.

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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#54 » by BaDaBo » Tue May 16, 2017 11:20 am

HIF wrote:
BaDaBo wrote:
Beenie wrote:He's on the wrong side of 30 and plays a physically taxing style so a not too distance future diminishing of production seems imminent by my estimation. I would look to trade him now. A year too soon is better than a year too late.


Maybe, but let me leave this here as food for thought:

Minutes Played in the NBA at the age 30:

Dragic: 17.868 regular season + 709 playoff = 18.577 minutes
LeBron: 35.176 regular season + 7.563 playoff = 42.739 minutes
T. Parker: 26.527 regular season + 5.522 playoff = 32.049 minutes


You're comparing him with future HOF, milti title winners.

This thread is always good for a laugh.


Dude I'm not comparing how good they are lol
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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#55 » by contract » Tue May 16, 2017 1:45 pm

BaDaBo wrote:
Beenie wrote:He's on the wrong side of 30 and plays a physically taxing style so a not too distance future diminishing of production seems imminent by my estimation. I would look to trade him now. A year too soon is better than a year too late.


Maybe, but let me leave this here as food for thought:

Minutes Played in the NBA at the age 30:

Dragic: 17.868 regular season + 709 playoff = 18.577 minutes
LeBron: 35.176 regular season + 7.563 playoff = 42.739 minutes
T. Parker: 26.527 regular season + 5.522 playoff = 32.049 minutes

That doesn't really mean anything. You can't save your minutes to use them when you're older. Trust me on that.
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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#56 » by BaDaBo » Tue May 16, 2017 2:35 pm

contract wrote:
Spoiler:
BaDaBo wrote:
Beenie wrote:He's on the wrong side of 30 and plays a physically taxing style so a not too distance future diminishing of production seems imminent by my estimation. I would look to trade him now. A year too soon is better than a year too late.


Maybe, but let me leave this here as food for thought:

Minutes Played in the NBA at the age 30:

Dragic: 17.868 regular season + 709 playoff = 18.577 minutes
LeBron: 35.176 regular season + 7.563 playoff = 42.739 minutes
T. Parker: 26.527 regular season + 5.522 playoff = 32.049 minutes

That doesn't really mean anything. You can't save your minutes to use them when you're older. Trust me on that.


Sadly I know really well that father times is a b**** any I'm only 28 lol.

You can't save minutes, but every minute less on the court is a minute of stress the body didn't have to go trough. 4 seasons of basketball worth of minutes have to count for something right ;)

I know coming from a Dragic fan sounds very bias to some. But I'd be saying the same about any player. I just think for some being 31 in the new 36.

p.s.: As a Dragic fan I'll watch him play anywhere he goes, so trade him if that's good for Miami. I just like seeing him in a Heat jersey.
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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#57 » by Mos_Heat » Tue May 16, 2017 3:11 pm

Beenie wrote:He's on the wrong side of 30 and plays a physically taxing style so a not too distance future diminishing of production seems imminent by my estimation. I would look to trade him now. A year too soon is better than a year too late.

doesn't make sense, unless we can land Fultz/Ball/Fox/DSJ
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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#58 » by HIF » Tue May 16, 2017 4:41 pm

BaDaBo wrote:
contract wrote:
Spoiler:
BaDaBo wrote:
Maybe, but let me leave this here as food for thought:

Minutes Played in the NBA at the age 30:

Dragic: 17.868 regular season + 709 playoff = 18.577 minutes
LeBron: 35.176 regular season + 7.563 playoff = 42.739 minutes
T. Parker: 26.527 regular season + 5.522 playoff = 32.049 minutes

That doesn't really mean anything. You can't save your minutes to use them when you're older. Trust me on that.


Sadly I know really well that father times is a b**** any I'm only 28 lol.

You can't save minutes, but every minute less on the court is a minute of stress the body didn't have to go trough. 4 seasons of basketball worth of minutes have to count for something right ;)

I know coming from a Dragic fan sounds very bias to some. But I'd be saying the same about any player. I just think for some being 31 in the new 36.

p.s.: As a Dragic fan I'll watch him play anywhere he goes, so trade him if that's good for Miami. I just like seeing him in a Heat jersey.


No it really means nothing. for example someone who has never played any minutes is not going to be better than most people who have.

Lebron has already played more minutes than Dragic ever will in the NBA and I'm sure you wouldn't be suggesting that Dragic is better than Lebron even with all of those miles on the clock.

The whole dragic, lebron, parker comparison was just a ridiculous joke wasn't it? (Otherwise you really are getting desperate).
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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#59 » by BaDaBo » Tue May 16, 2017 5:07 pm

HIF wrote:
BaDaBo wrote:
contract wrote:
Spoiler:

That doesn't really mean anything. You can't save your minutes to use them when you're older. Trust me on that.


Sadly I know really well that father times is a b**** any I'm only 28 lol.

You can't save minutes, but every minute less on the court is a minute of stress the body didn't have to go trough. 4 seasons of basketball worth of minutes have to count for something right ;)

I know coming from a Dragic fan sounds very bias to some. But I'd be saying the same about any player. I just think for some being 31 in the new 36.

p.s.: As a Dragic fan I'll watch him play anywhere he goes, so trade him if that's good for Miami. I just like seeing him in a Heat jersey.


No it really means nothing. for example someone who has never played any minutes is not going to be better than most people who have.

Lebron has already played more minutes than Dragic ever will in the NBA and I'm sure you wouldn't be suggesting that Dragic is better than Lebron even with all of those miles on the clock.

The whole dragic, lebron, parker comparison was just a ridiculous joke wasn't it? (Otherwise you really are getting desperate).


Never said better, read again.
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Re: Dragic impression 

Post#60 » by contract » Tue May 16, 2017 5:48 pm

BaDaBo wrote:
contract wrote:
Spoiler:
BaDaBo wrote:
Maybe, but let me leave this here as food for thought:

Minutes Played in the NBA at the age 30:

Dragic: 17.868 regular season + 709 playoff = 18.577 minutes
LeBron: 35.176 regular season + 7.563 playoff = 42.739 minutes
T. Parker: 26.527 regular season + 5.522 playoff = 32.049 minutes

That doesn't really mean anything. You can't save your minutes to use them when you're older. Trust me on that.


Sadly I know really well that father times is a b**** any I'm only 28 lol.

You can't save minutes, but every minute less on the court is a minute of stress the body didn't have to go trough. 4 seasons of basketball worth of minutes have to count for something right ;)

I know coming from a Dragic fan sounds very bias to some. But I'd be saying the same about any player. I just think for some being 31 in the new 36.

p.s.: As a Dragic fan I'll watch him play anywhere he goes, so trade him if that's good for Miami. I just like seeing him in a Heat jersey.

I agree that Dragic still has years of effective play in front of him, I just don't think it has to do with limited NBA minutes. A perimeter player with an effective outside shot has a chance to play until he's 40. Unless he suffers a serious injury, Dragic's decline will not be soon or sudden as some fans believe.
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