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So is this what we want?

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:35 pm
by Rich2Hassan
Let's all be serious, and keep the childish nonsense out this thread and talk business.

So is this what we want to become? The new Atlanta Hawks? A treadmill team? A team headed to no mans land? As of today, our record is 18-30, 7 game winning streak, and we sit 5 1/2 games out the 8th seed. We are now tied with Orlando for the 5th worse record. We have posters jumping for joy, cheering as if we are a playoff contender. Why i ask? Why?

Lets take a look at each player that matters on the roster:

Hassan Whiteside: 98 million dollar center, whos imo, top 10 in nba centers. While he isn't a superstar, he's a good piece to a title contender, a walking double double shot blocking machine, not a clear 1st option but a keeper.

Goran Dragic: middle of the pack PG, who can only play one style, defense is awful, IQ is low, mentally weak, not a keeper, but has a friendly contract.

Dion Waiters: a bust, who is playing for a contract, very flawed player, bone headed on the court, not a keeper.

James Johnson: very good role player, probably a great teammate it seems. He is a keeper and hes not that old.

Luke Babbit: BUM, who will be out the league soon.

Josh Richardson: was having a solid pack of games before going down with injury, Rich is a hard worker and still has plenty of potential. Shot was looking good, defensive intensity was returning, a good building piece.

Tyler Johnson: while on a awful contract, i like what je brings. Solid defense, a nice shot, and easy on the eyes. Another keeper, if we can't move him for a pick.

Justice Winslow: now while i believe he is never going to learn how to shoot a jumper, most fans love him and still believe he is the second coming of paul george/K leonard (:lol:) i dont see it. I believe Riley will move him because he hasn't lived up to the "expectations".

Willie Reed: solid back up center, game still needs alot of work, but he can stay.

Okaro White: good 15th man, nothing more nothing less.

Rodney McGruder: see above.

Wayne Eagleton: there's always a spot on the roster for a guy that can shoot three's. I like him, but i'll be shopping him to a contender for a future pick if im Riley.

Josh McRoberts: LMFAO.

Erik Spoelstra: decent coach, not an elite coach but not a bad one. He needs elite talent to even look good, but to each its own.

So i say all of this to say, there is not one clear cut alpha, star player above. No player that i feel can get another star to play down in South beach, no player that can get to the all star game, no player to get the national media excited about.

Why are we winning these games? We will not make the playoffs. We will have to hope the other teams lose alot of games and we continue to win. Even if we did make the playoffs, do we want to get swept by the Cavs? I sure in hell don't.

I know we are approaching the mid way mark in the season, and there's still plenty of time to tank, but why are we winning these games? Why? We are killing our chance at Fultz, Jackson, etc for Markkannen, monk? Lol. This should've been the season we went all out on a tank, to give ourselves a chance at drafting our next franchise player. Wade is gone, and he isn't walking back through that door. I strongly feel that we will regret winning all of these games, and come may most fans will cry about what a waste it was.

Do we really think we are stealing another star from their team? This new CBA makes it realllly hard to do that. We can grab Milsap though, re-sign Waiters to a mega deal, will that make everyone happy?

Yeah we are just fans and there is nothing we can do about it, but i cant accept that my team is headed to the treadmill. But oh well. :D

Re: So is this what we want?

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:18 pm
by Bishop45
dnit read

Re: So is this what we want?

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:04 pm
by contract
We're not the Hawks. The Hawks are 27-20 and the 4th seed in the Eastern Conference.

Re: So is this what we want?

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:11 pm
by HEATVols865
LOL at trashing Dragic who's having one of his best seasons and who has carried us in many games.
Dude wants us to trade and dump everyone. Let's send Hassan to the Warriors for Zaza because after all Hassan would be great with them...wtf


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Re: So is this what we want?

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:42 pm
by Prince Ali
:lol:

Re: So is this what we want?

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:43 pm
by deedsy
OP is 100% right, if we do not get a top 3 pick we will get stuck with a monk/fox-tier player when we could have drafted a future superstar. Not a single person on this forum would trade a player like DSJ for 10 wins so stop supporting these meaningless victories

Re: So is this what we want?

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:49 pm
by Flash4thewin
Some times one has to look at the big picture and be objective.

Re: So is this what we want?

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:57 pm
by Umbooki
I'ma support these bozos regardless of how the season turns out. The wins are fun and the losses contribute to our future, so let the chips fall where they may.

Not like I'm in a position to make our roster suck harder.

Re: So is this what we want?

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:15 pm
by QUIZ
deedsy wrote:OP is 100% right, if we do not get a top 3 pick we will get stuck with a monk/fox-tier player when we could have drafted a future superstar. Not a single person on this forum would trade a player like DSJ for 10 wins so stop supporting these meaningless victories

Cause that'll change things right?

Re: So is this what we want?

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:09 pm
by Mars
deedsy wrote:OP is 100% right, if we do not get a top 3 pick we will get stuck with a monk/fox-tier player when we could have drafted a future superstar. Not a single person on this forum would trade a player like DSJ for 10 wins so stop supporting these meaningless victories

In the past 20 years only two Top 3 picks in the NBA Draft have won titles with the team that selected them:

• Michael Jordan (No. 3 pick in 1984 Draft)
• Tim Duncan (No. 1 pick in 1997 Draft)

*Disqualified - LeBron James (No. 1 pick in 2003 Draft) -- returned as a free agent after a four-year absence
*Disqualified - Darko Milicic (No. 2 pick in 2003 Draft) -- sucked

Re: So is this what we want?

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:10 pm
by HeatIn5
deedsy wrote:OP is 100% right, if we do not get a top 3 pick we will get stuck with a monk/fox-tier player when we could have drafted a future superstar. Not a single person on this forum would trade a player like DSJ for 10 wins so stop supporting these meaningless victories


See this is the notion I disagree with. I don't think there is a huge dropoff between the Monk/Fox/Isaac/Markkanen tier as there is between the Fultz/Ball/Smith tier. I think they are all going to be very solid and this is one of the deeper drafts.

However, one thing that I do think we need to look into doing, is trading Hassan. Although he played well in the 2nd half of the Detroit game, it almost looks like he doesn't care sometimes. With the culture beginning to form of old school Miami Heat basketball (tough players like Reed in a Haslem role, Okaro, James Johnson), Hassan seems to be a weird piece. Although elite defensively, he takes too many plays off to be a max guy.

If we can get a package that includes a 2017 1st, a 2019 1st and a couple young players I would pull the trigger instantly.

Re: So is this what we want?

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:25 pm
by DayofMourning
Mars wrote:
deedsy wrote:OP is 100% right, if we do not get a top 3 pick we will get stuck with a monk/fox-tier player when we could have drafted a future superstar. Not a single person on this forum would trade a player like DSJ for 10 wins so stop supporting these meaningless victories

In the past 20 years only two Top 3 picks in the NBA Draft have won titles with the team that selected them:

• Michael Jordan (No. 3 pick in 1984 Draft)
• Tim Duncan (No. 1 pick in 1997 Draft)

*Disqualified - LeBron James (No. 1 pick in 2003 Draft) -- returned as a free agent after a four-year absence
*Disqualified - Darco Milicic (No. 2 pick in 2003 Draft) -- sucked


Finding a true number one guy is tough to do. This draft might have one.

The true generational players keep all the trophies to themselves. I don't know if this draft has a guy with that potential, but it has several that would complement such a player.

I'm not going to lose sleep over where our draft position is. There's no controlling it. We have talent on this team, and we are going to win some games, if we keep these guys intact and healthy. Not enough to get in, but the worst record doesn't guarantee us Fultz anyway. The tenth worst record could get us a top three pick. You never know. Best to just let things play out.

I'm definitely not going to get upset because my team is winning games.

Re: So is this what we want?

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:33 pm
by shanedude
Exactly DoM. A chitty record guarantees nothing.

Re: So is this what we want?

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:58 pm
by Mars
DayofMourning wrote:Finding a true number one guy is tough to do. This draft might have one.

The true generational players keep all the trophies to themselves. I don't know if this draft has a guy with that potential, but it has several that would complement such a player.

I'm not going to lose sleep over where our draft position is. There's no controlling it. We have talent on this team, and we are going to win some games, if we keep these guys intact and healthy. Not enough to get in, but the worst record doesn't guarantee us Fultz anyway. The tenth worst record could get us a top three pick. You never know. Best to just let things play out.

I'm definitely not going to get upset because my team is winning games.

Agreed. Recent history also shows that titles teams have been impacted by players selected all over the draft board...

• Steph Curry (No. 7 pick in 2009 Draft) -- 2014-15 NBA Title
• Klay Thompson (No. 11 pick in 2011 Draft) -- 2014-15 NBA Title
• Draymond Green (No. 35 pick in 2012 Draft) -- 2014-15 NBA Title
• Kawhi Leonard (No. 15 pick in 2011 Draft) -- 2013-14 NBA Title
• Dwayne Wade (No. 5 pick in 2003 Draft) -- 2012-13, 2011-12, 2005-06, NBA Titles
• Kobe Bryant (No. 13 pick in 1996 Draft) -- 2009-10, 2008-09, 2001-02, 2000-01, 1999-00 NBA Titles
• Paul Pierce (No. 10 pick in 1999 Draft -- 2007-08 NBA Title
• Dirk Nowitzki (No. 9 pick in 1999 Draft) -- 2006-07 NBA Title

In addition to non-title teams who selected quality (and in some case immense) talent later in the draft...

• C.J. McCollum (No. 10 pick in 2013 Draft)
• Steven Adams (No. 12 pick in 2013 Draft)
• Giannis Antetokounmpo (No. 15 pick in 2013 Draft)
• Dennis Schroeder (No. 17 pick in 2013 Draft)
• Damien Lillard (No. 6 pick in 2012 Draft)
• Andre Drummond (No. 9 pick in 2012 Draft)
• Khris Middleton (No. 39 pick in 2012 Draft)
• Kemba Walker (No. 9 pick in 2011 Draft)
• Tobias Harris (No. 19 pick in 2011 Draft)
• Jimmy Butler (No. 30 pick in 2011 Draft)
• Isaiah Thomas (No. 60 pick in 2011 Draft)

...If the HEAT plays well enough to keep winning games, that's great. If they're organically bad enough to solidify a pick and secure talent somewhere in the draft, that's great too. Either way the team will ultimately be fine.

Re: So is this what we want?

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:22 pm
by goodboy
Image

Re: So is this what we want?

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:01 pm
by contract
shanedude wrote:Exactly DoM. A chitty record guarantees nothing.

A less chitty record guarantees less.

Re: So is this what we want?

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:08 pm
by Hallstar
Mars wrote:
deedsy wrote:OP is 100% right, if we do not get a top 3 pick we will get stuck with a monk/fox-tier player when we could have drafted a future superstar. Not a single person on this forum would trade a player like DSJ for 10 wins so stop supporting these meaningless victories

In the past 20 years only two Top 3 picks in the NBA Draft have won titles with the team that selected them:

• Michael Jordan (No. 3 pick in 1984 Draft)
• Tim Duncan (No. 1 pick in 1997 Draft)

*Disqualified - LeBron James (No. 1 pick in 2003 Draft) -- returned as a free agent after a four-year absence
*Disqualified - Darko Milicic (No. 2 pick in 2003 Draft) -- sucked

What a ridiculously specific exclusion.

Shaq, Timmy and Lebron have done a lot of winning as 1st picks. I guess you wouldn't have drafted them because they weren't guaranteed to bring a championship to you 1st. :lol:

The hoops people jump through to justify this foolish path we're on

I don't see the point of jumping for joy over pointless wins in a throwaway season, THEN having to hope that some random second tier prospect slips to you when you were originally in position to have your choice of the buffet.

Unless of course Dragic/Waiters is already our backcourt of the future, we can give him his 3 year 60 million at the end of the season and ride off in to the sunset.

Re: So is this what we want?

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:12 pm
by Rich2Hassan
Oh and i'm not "MAD" that the team is winning games. I'm confused as to the direction we are going in, which is why i asked the question to the posters, is this what we want? We are not making the playoffs with this roster, so what is the other alternative? But eh, whatever.

Re: So is this what we want?

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:13 pm
by Rich2Hassan
Bishop45 wrote:dnit read

That's fine, but you took the time out to reply to the thread so that says more about you. Thanks! :D

Re: So is this what we want?

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:03 pm
by Mars
Hallstar wrote:What a ridiculously specific exclusion.

Shaq, Timmy and Lebron have done a lot of winning as 1st picks. I guess you wouldn't have drafted them because they weren't guaranteed to bring a championship to you 1st. :lol:

The hoops people jump through to justify this foolish path we're on

I don't see the point of jumping for joy over pointless wins in a throwaway season, THEN having to hope that some random second tier prospect slips to you when you were originally in position to have your choice of the buffet.

Unless of course Dragic/Waiters is already our backcourt of the future, we can give him his 3 year 60 million at the end of the season and ride off in to the sunset.

My point was, obsessing over tanking a season with the hopes of landing a can't miss franchise savior the caliber of Jordan, Timmy or LeBron (which has only happened 3 times over the last 20 years) is a fool's errand.

I realize you enjoy debating for the sake of debate, but how was that not clear?