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What is Riles top priority this offseason and what would be yours?

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Re: What is Riles top priority this offseason and what would be yours? 

Post#61 » by gom » Wed May 10, 2017 3:42 pm

As much as I want to keep JJ, Reed, and Waiters, I'm sure that we shouldn't overpay them to stay. The beauty of the Heat is that we take players no one else wants and make them into players that matter. The problem is it takes damn near half a season to get it done.
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Re: What is Riles top priority this offseason and what would be yours? 

Post#62 » by Wolfy1983 » Wed May 10, 2017 10:36 pm

gom wrote:As much as I want to keep JJ, Reed, and Waiters, I'm sure that we shouldn't overpay them to stay. The beauty of the Heat is that we take players no one else wants and make them into players that matter. The problem is it takes damn near half a season to get it done.


I don't see JJ and Reed asking for a boatload of money. Waiters is a different story. Only thing keeping JJ from getting a big offer is his age.
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Re: What is Riles top priority this offseason and what would be yours? 

Post#63 » by J_M_B » Thu May 11, 2017 12:17 am

I'm not completely sure what the Heat's cap situation is, but I know Riley thinks he can get a lot done with 35M plus. The Heat aren't getting Griffin, Millsap, Hayward. We aren't a player away in my opinion, unless a superstar becomes available (PG ain't one either). Focus on keeping core guys on team friendly deals, though if some team wants to throw ridiculous money at Waiters, move on to guys like Gallanari, Gay, etc.

Goran Dragic - Tyler Johnson
Dion Waiters - Josh Richardson - Rodney McGruder
Justise Winslow - Okaro White
Rudy Gay - James Johnson
Hassan Whiteside - Willie Reed

I like Ellington, but his 6M cap hit could possibly result in Waiters/JJ and add a second tier FA. Draft best available
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Re: What is Riles top priority this offseason and what would be yours? 

Post#64 » by leoshes » Thu May 11, 2017 6:55 am

contract wrote:
leoshes wrote:I hope they liked it here enough to stay for a little less.

How do you guys think we can resign Dion, JJ, Reed, & keep Ellington while adding at least 1 rotation player? Hopefully someone that can fight for a starting spot at SF.
The more i see the math the less likely i believe it could happen. :(


Andy please find a way.

You want to keep all those guys AND add at least 1 rotation player? Can't be done unless the market for JJ and Waiters is weak. Basically you're asking JJ, Waiters, and Reed, to sign for a combined ~ $29 mil ... at which point we'd have our exception money to add a rotation player or two.


I dont think this will happen but i am hopeing for it. I'm hopeing for Reed to takes our exception, & Dion/JJ take around $12/$13mill.
But thats me reaching.

1st we need to see what we do in the draft. Do we keep it, trade it with someone like Bob, or use it with some of our young guys for a legit starting SF. Who knows but after the draft we will know a little more.
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Re: What is Riles top priority this offseason and what would be yours? 

Post#65 » by leoshes » Thu May 11, 2017 7:01 am

contract wrote:
contract wrote:
leoshes wrote:I hope they liked it here enough to stay for a little less.

How do you guys think we can resign Dion, JJ, Reed, & keep Ellington while adding at least 1 rotation player? Hopefully someone that can fight for a starting spot at SF.
The more i see the math the less likely i believe it could happen. :(


Andy please find a way.

You want to keep all those guys AND add at least 1 rotation player? Can't be done unless the market for JJ and Waiters is weak. Basically you're asking JJ, Waiters, and Reed, to sign for a combined ~ $29 mil ... at which point we'd have our exception money to add a rotation player or two.

OK, lets try to work this out. We get Bosh cleared off our cap, and we renounce our Bird Rights to Haslem and Babbitt, and cut White.

That leaves us with 9 players:

$23,775,506 ... Whiteside
$17,000,000 ... Dragic
$6,270,000 ... Ellington
$6,021,175 ... McWhatever
$5,881,260 ... T. Johnson
$2,705,040 ... Winslow
$1,471,382 ... Richardson
$1,312,611 ... McGruder

+ $2,075,300 ... 14th pick in the draft

Total: $66,512,274

Salary cap: $101,000,000 ... projection

$101,000,000
- $66,512,274
------------------
$34,487,726 in available cap space ... not counting cap holds for JJ, Waiters & Reed (because those will be replaced by their new salaries).

That's more cap space than I thought we had.


So if JJ and Waiters each take a starting salary of $12 million ... that would leave $10 million for Reed.

If JJ and Waiters take starting salaries of $13 million ... that would leave $8 million for Read.

If JJ and Waiters take starting salaries of $14 million ... that would leave $6 million for Read.


So yes, it is possible to resign all three of them, and still have our exception money to add a rotation player or two.

Unless I screw up somewhere.


We could then double back and offer Haslem, Babbitt, and White, minimum salaries if we chose to.


If Reed wants more then our exception i might be willing to let him walk. Specialy if we draftd a C/PF. I would like to add another quality SF/PF some how.
But if worst comes to worst then we always have Babbit.
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Re: What is Riles top priority this offseason and what would be yours? 

Post#66 » by gom » Thu May 11, 2017 5:16 pm

J_M_B wrote:I'm not completely sure what the Heat's cap situation is, but I know Riley thinks he can get a lot done with 35M plus. The Heat aren't getting Griffin, Millsap, Hayward. We aren't a player away in my opinion, unless a superstar becomes available (PG ain't one either). Focus on keeping core guys on team friendly deals, though if some team wants to throw ridiculous money at Waiters, move on to guys like Gallanari, Gay, etc.

Goran Dragic - Tyler Johnson
Dion Waiters - Josh Richardson - Rodney McGruder
Justise Winslow - Okaro White
Rudy Gay - James Johnson
Hassan Whiteside - Willie Reed

I like Ellington, but his 6M cap hit could possibly result in Waiters/JJ and add a second tier FA. Draft best available


That's so funny. Rudy Gay starting instead of James Johnson? I've watched Rudy Gay at Toronto, Memphis, and dozens of Kings games (my mom is a Kings fan and she moved in with us a few years ago.) He's not good enough for Miami.

We can sign JJ for 3/45 or 4/52. He would appreciate the extra year. He can take the sheriff role from Haslem. Nobody is messing with us with him out there.

Waiters may be 3/48 or 4/60, only because he was injured so much and has the rep from the other teams. Otherwise, he would get an offer for 4/75 or more, and we just can't pay that. Sacramento and Brooklyn (among others) will have money to throw at him. Reed won't be MLE. I figure 2/24 or 3/30.

We need to look for players to replace them if we fail to sign them in free agency.
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Re: What is Riles top priority this offseason and what would be yours? 

Post#67 » by contract » Thu May 11, 2017 6:06 pm

gom wrote:
J_M_B wrote:I'm not completely sure what the Heat's cap situation is, but I know Riley thinks he can get a lot done with 35M plus. The Heat aren't getting Griffin, Millsap, Hayward. We aren't a player away in my opinion, unless a superstar becomes available (PG ain't one either). Focus on keeping core guys on team friendly deals, though if some team wants to throw ridiculous money at Waiters, move on to guys like Gallanari, Gay, etc.

Goran Dragic - Tyler Johnson
Dion Waiters - Josh Richardson - Rodney McGruder
Justise Winslow - Okaro White
Rudy Gay - James Johnson
Hassan Whiteside - Willie Reed

I like Ellington, but his 6M cap hit could possibly result in Waiters/JJ and add a second tier FA. Draft best available


That's so funny. Rudy Gay starting instead of James Johnson? I've watched Rudy Gay at Toronto, Memphis, and dozens of Kings games (my mom is a Kings fan and she moved in with us a few years ago.) He's not good enough for Miami.

We can sign JJ for 3/45 or 4/52. He would appreciate the extra year. He can take the sheriff role from Haslem. Nobody is messing with us with him out there.

Waiters may be 3/48 or 4/60, only because he was injured so much and has the rep from the other teams. Otherwise, he would get an offer for 4/75 or more, and we just can't pay that. Sacramento and Brooklyn (among others) will have money to throw at him. Reed won't be MLE. I figure 2/24 or 3/30.

We need to look for players to replace them if we fail to sign them in free agency.

$10 million+ contracts aren't as common as everyone seems to think they are. There were 109 players in the NBA last season making $10 million or more ... or ~ 3.6 players per team. Everyone isn't getting a $10 million+ deal. And $15 million+ is even rarer.

Every year there are some outrageous contracts given out in free agency, but not that many. Even last offseason with the huge $14 million jump in the cap, most players didn't sign huge contracts. We did after all sign Waiters for pocket change and a coupon for a free 4 piece McNuggets.

Reed is a 27 year old with a shooting range of 3 feet, and no real track record of success. It's hard to imagine him landing that kind of deal.
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Re: What is Riles top priority this offseason and what would be yours? 

Post#69 » by J_M_B » Sun May 14, 2017 10:48 pm

gom wrote:
J_M_B wrote:I'm not completely sure what the Heat's cap situation is, but I know Riley thinks he can get a lot done with 35M plus. The Heat aren't getting Griffin, Millsap, Hayward. We aren't a player away in my opinion, unless a superstar becomes available (PG ain't one either). Focus on keeping core guys on team friendly deals, though if some team wants to throw ridiculous money at Waiters, move on to guys like Gallanari, Gay, etc.

Goran Dragic - Tyler Johnson
Dion Waiters - Josh Richardson - Rodney McGruder
Justise Winslow - Okaro White
Rudy Gay - James Johnson
Hassan Whiteside - Willie Reed

I like Ellington, but his 6M cap hit could possibly result in Waiters/JJ and add a second tier FA. Draft best available


That's so funny. Rudy Gay starting instead of James Johnson? I've watched Rudy Gay at Toronto, Memphis, and dozens of Kings games (my mom is a Kings fan and she moved in with us a few years ago.) He's not good enough for Miami.

We can sign JJ for 3/45 or 4/52. He would appreciate the extra year. He can take the sheriff role from Haslem. Nobody is messing with us with him out there.

Waiters may be 3/48 or 4/60, only because he was injured so much and has the rep from the other teams. Otherwise, he would get an offer for 4/75 or more, and we just can't pay that. Sacramento and Brooklyn (among others) will have money to throw at him. Reed won't be MLE. I figure 2/24 or 3/30.

We need to look for players to replace them if we fail to sign them in free agency.


To retain JJ and Waiters, we'll have to settle for a second tier FA. I don't see any better options at that price level than Gay. He's been labeled a ball stopper and chucker for years, but Spo has clearly shown he can get guys to buy in and play more efficiently.

Gallanari would be my top choice, but we probably won't have the space to add him. Rudy was at least a net positive on both ends last year, according to BPM. His versatility on offense complements Whiteside in the starting lineup and is a huge upgrade over Babbitt too. The fact that he's already shown interest in playing here and is coming off an achilles injury should allow Miami to get him on a team friendly deal. As far as for JJ, him and Tyler led one of the best 2nd units in the league. There's no need to mess with that.
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Re: What is Riles top priority this offseason and what would be yours? 

Post#70 » by gom » Mon May 15, 2017 3:12 am

J_M_B wrote:
gom wrote:
J_M_B wrote:I'm not completely sure what the Heat's cap situation is, but I know Riley thinks he can get a lot done with 35M plus. The Heat aren't getting Griffin, Millsap, Hayward. We aren't a player away in my opinion, unless a superstar becomes available (PG ain't one either). Focus on keeping core guys on team friendly deals, though if some team wants to throw ridiculous money at Waiters, move on to guys like Gallanari, Gay, etc.

Goran Dragic - Tyler Johnson
Dion Waiters - Josh Richardson - Rodney McGruder
Justise Winslow - Okaro White
Rudy Gay - James Johnson
Hassan Whiteside - Willie Reed

I like Ellington, but his 6M cap hit could possibly result in Waiters/JJ and add a second tier FA. Draft best available


That's so funny. Rudy Gay starting instead of James Johnson? I've watched Rudy Gay at Toronto, Memphis, and dozens of Kings games (my mom is a Kings fan and she moved in with us a few years ago.) He's not good enough for Miami.

We can sign JJ for 3/45 or 4/52. He would appreciate the extra year. He can take the sheriff role from Haslem. Nobody is messing with us with him out there.

Waiters may be 3/48 or 4/60, only because he was injured so much and has the rep from the other teams. Otherwise, he would get an offer for 4/75 or more, and we just can't pay that. Sacramento and Brooklyn (among others) will have money to throw at him. Reed won't be MLE. I figure 2/24 or 3/30.

We need to look for players to replace them if we fail to sign them in free agency.


To retain JJ and Waiters, we'll have to settle for a second tier FA. I don't see any better options at that price level than Gay. He's been labeled a ball stopper and chucker for years, but Spo has clearly shown he can get guys to buy in and play more efficiently.

Gallanari would be my top choice, but we probably won't have the space to add him. Rudy was at least a net positive on both ends last year, according to BPM. His versatility on offense complements Whiteside in the starting lineup and is a huge upgrade over Babbitt too. The fact that he's already shown interest in playing here and is coming off an achilles injury should allow Miami to get him on a team friendly deal. As far as for JJ, him and Tyler led one of the best 2nd units in the league. There's no need to mess with that.


Ok, well, I disagree. Rudy Gay has terrible decisions under pressure. You can ask any Kings fan. You know how Tony and Eric talk about Winslow's statistics being poor, but that he makes game-winning plays. Rudy Gay is the opposite. He'll put up a decent night on the scoreboard, but he is bad at winning.

Here are some second rate free agent PF I prefer to Rudy Gay:

Amir Johnson (BOS/early-bird, but UFA)
Ersan Ilyasova (ATL/bird, but UFA)
Thomas Robinson (LAL/non-bird, but UFA)
Taj Gibson (OKC has bird rights, but UFA)
Joe Ingles (UTA/SF too, but will get paid/Utah has bird rights/RFA)
Mareese Speights (LAC/non-bird and Player Option)
Donatas Motiejunas (non-bird/NOP)

I am excluding these players: (for these reasons)

Robert Covington (plays both F positions) (76ers have team option and will use it)
Nenê (HOU/non-bird) (I can't see him moving from HOU)
Greg Monroe (player option with MIL/opts out) (we can't afford him)
Paul Millsap (player option with ATL/opts out) (we can't afford him)
Pau Gasol (player option with SAN/opts in?) (I'm guessing Gasol will also not want to leave the Spurs)
JaVale McGee (will resign for min with Golden State?)

---

Also, I'd probably start James Johnson over almost everyone listed above. I know he has good chemistry with TJ, but James Johnson will be signed to start (by our team or somebody else.)
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Re: What is Riles top priority this offseason and what would be yours? 

Post#71 » by leoshes » Mon May 15, 2017 7:33 pm

We had our best winning % when we had Dragic, Dion, JJ, & Whiteside on the floor together.
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Re: What is Riles top priority this offseason and what would be yours? 

Post#72 » by Beenie » Tue May 16, 2017 5:32 am

If it were me, I'd try to move up in the draft and snag one of the elite PG's (Fultz,Ball,Fox, Smith). I'd dangle Dragic and possibly Winslow as the bait. The extra created cap space allows for the pursuing of one of the top flight free agents without having to withdraw from resigning either or both Johnson and Waiters.

I would entertain the idea of a trade with the Knicks for Carmelo if it meant that he could be packaged with their 1st round pick to take one of the aforementioned PGs. Perhaps a package of Dragic, Winslow, T.Johnson/Richardson and our pick could suffice their demands.
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Re: What is Riles top priority this offseason and what would be yours? 

Post#73 » by puppa bear » Tue May 16, 2017 9:32 am

Beenie wrote:If it were me, I'd try to move up in the draft and snag one of the elite PG's (Fultz,Ball,Fox, Smith). I'd dangle Dragic and possibly Winslow as the bait. The extra created cap space allows for the pursuing of one of the top flight free agents without having to withdraw from resigning either or both Johnson and Waiters.

I would entertain the idea of a trade with the Knicks for Carmelo if it meant that he could be packaged with their 1st round pick to take one of the aforementioned PGs. Perhaps a package of Dragic, Winslow, T.Johnson/Richardson and our pick could suffice their demands.

Hang on, so you'd go after Melo, a win-now aging player, and at the same time use all other movable assets to try to get one of the top rookie PGs?

You're lacking clear direction - either win now or build, don't try to half-arse both.
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Re: What is Riles top priority this offseason and what would be yours? 

Post#74 » by contract » Tue May 16, 2017 1:43 pm

puppa bear wrote:
Beenie wrote:If it were me, I'd try to move up in the draft and snag one of the elite PG's (Fultz,Ball,Fox, Smith). I'd dangle Dragic and possibly Winslow as the bait. The extra created cap space allows for the pursuing of one of the top flight free agents without having to withdraw from resigning either or both Johnson and Waiters.

I would entertain the idea of a trade with the Knicks for Carmelo if it meant that he could be packaged with their 1st round pick to take one of the aforementioned PGs. Perhaps a package of Dragic, Winslow, T.Johnson/Richardson and our pick could suffice their demands.

Hang on, so you'd go after Melo, a win-now aging player, and at the same time use all other movable assets to try to get one of the top rookie PGs?

You're lacking clear direction - either win now or build, don't try to half-arse both.

You may want to have that discussion with Pat. He can't seem to make up his mind either.
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Re: What is Riles top priority this offseason and what would be yours? 

Post#75 » by puppa bear » Tue May 16, 2017 1:50 pm

contract wrote:
puppa bear wrote:
Beenie wrote:If it were me, I'd try to move up in the draft and snag one of the elite PG's (Fultz,Ball,Fox, Smith). I'd dangle Dragic and possibly Winslow as the bait. The extra created cap space allows for the pursuing of one of the top flight free agents without having to withdraw from resigning either or both Johnson and Waiters.

I would entertain the idea of a trade with the Knicks for Carmelo if it meant that he could be packaged with their 1st round pick to take one of the aforementioned PGs. Perhaps a package of Dragic, Winslow, T.Johnson/Richardson and our pick could suffice their demands.

Hang on, so you'd go after Melo, a win-now aging player, and at the same time use all other movable assets to try to get one of the top rookie PGs?

You're lacking clear direction - either win now or build, don't try to half-arse both.

You may want to have that discussion with Pat. He can't seem to make up his mind either.

No Pat wants to win now with a contender & go down swinging. His signal gave not been mixed, he wants Bosh off the books to sign a top quality FA, and will use the pick to either trade for a star or take a Heat-type player.
He's never gotten to the rebuild state, so we've never seen anything like wanting to trade for a high lotto pick.
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Re: What is Riles top priority this offseason and what would be yours? 

Post#76 » by contract » Tue May 16, 2017 1:57 pm

puppa bear wrote:
contract wrote:
puppa bear wrote:Hang on, so you'd go after Melo, a win-now aging player, and at the same time use all other movable assets to try to get one of the top rookie PGs?

You're lacking clear direction - either win now or build, don't try to half-arse both.

You may want to have that discussion with Pat. He can't seem to make up his mind either.

No Pat wants to win now with a contender & go down swinging. His signal gave not been mixed, he wants Bosh off the books to sign a top quality FA, and will use the pick to either trade for a star or take a Heat-type player.
He's never gotten to the rebuild state, so we've never seen anything like wanting to trade for a high lotto pick.

Rewind 6 months and Pat was talking about rebuilding and acquiring an extra 1st round pick.

“You go back and you look at it, we’re in a reubild with young players that we’re familiar with and we have five or six guys that we really like,” Riley said.

http://heatzone.blog.palmbeachpost.com/2016/12/21/miami-heat-president-pat-riley-we-will-rebuild-quick/
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Re: What is Riles top priority this offseason and what would be yours? 

Post#77 » by puppa bear » Tue May 16, 2017 2:20 pm

contract wrote:
puppa bear wrote:
contract wrote:You may want to have that discussion with Pat. He can't seem to make up his mind either.

No Pat wants to win now with a contender & go down swinging. His signal gave not been mixed, he wants Bosh off the books to sign a top quality FA, and will use the pick to either trade for a star or take a Heat-type player.
He's never gotten to the rebuild state, so we've never seen anything like wanting to trade for a high lotto pick.

Rewind 6 months and Pat was talking about rebuilding and acquiring an extra 1st round pick.

“You go back and you look at it, we’re in a reubild with young players that we’re familiar with and we have five or six guys that we really like,” Riley said.

http://heatzone.blog.palmbeachpost.com/2016/12/21/miami-heat-president-pat-riley-we-will-rebuild-quick/

And I was also talking about how awesome our awesome shiny top-5 pick would be, after our 11-30 start. Things change and plans become fluid. Trading for Melo & a top-5 pick at the same time is not fluidity, it's inconsistency. If you trade for Melo then you're going for HCA in the first round and contendership. So we should then be resigning Waiters/JJ if we can't get another high level FA & roll with the same group but Melo instead of Babbitt, at worst.

If you trade for a top-5 pick to target a PG, then you go after RFAs or younger vets, and explore trading for another pick to get multiple injections of youth. This route, without a FA signing will be a road to the top-7 pick next season, and possibly give us another legit prospect.

Trying to get Melo and a rookie PG will not work out, and is mixed signals to FAs and the fan-base.
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Re: What is Riles top priority this offseason and what would be yours? 

Post#78 » by Hallstar » Tue May 16, 2017 2:58 pm

puppa bear wrote:
Beenie wrote:If it were me, I'd try to move up in the draft and snag one of the elite PG's (Fultz,Ball,Fox, Smith). I'd dangle Dragic and possibly Winslow as the bait. The extra created cap space allows for the pursuing of one of the top flight free agents without having to withdraw from resigning either or both Johnson and Waiters.

I would entertain the idea of a trade with the Knicks for Carmelo if it meant that he could be packaged with their 1st round pick to take one of the aforementioned PGs. Perhaps a package of Dragic, Winslow, T.Johnson/Richardson and our pick could suffice their demands.

Hang on, so you'd go after Melo, a win-now aging player, and at the same time use all other movable assets to try to get one of the top rookie PGs?

You're lacking clear direction - either win now or build, don't try to half-arse both.

lol, then he really is thinking like Riley
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Re: What is Riles top priority this offseason and what would be yours? 

Post#79 » by puppa bear » Tue May 16, 2017 3:45 pm

Hallstar wrote:
puppa bear wrote:
Beenie wrote:If it were me, I'd try to move up in the draft and snag one of the elite PG's (Fultz,Ball,Fox, Smith). I'd dangle Dragic and possibly Winslow as the bait. The extra created cap space allows for the pursuing of one of the top flight free agents without having to withdraw from resigning either or both Johnson and Waiters.

I would entertain the idea of a trade with the Knicks for Carmelo if it meant that he could be packaged with their 1st round pick to take one of the aforementioned PGs. Perhaps a package of Dragic, Winslow, T.Johnson/Richardson and our pick could suffice their demands.

Hang on, so you'd go after Melo, a win-now aging player, and at the same time use all other movable assets to try to get one of the top rookie PGs?

You're lacking clear direction - either win now or build, don't try to half-arse both.

lol, then he really is thinking like Riley

I would disagree. I think Riley is flip-flopping, not half-arsing. I think he was ready to go the full rebuild, then the streak happened and he sees potential, so no he's doing a retool by trying to add a star & vets. Top flight FAs are more likely to want to play with Dragic than Fox or Smith (we're not getting Ball or Fultz, so forget about them), so more space is likely to equal less chance.

Shipping Dragic/Winslow/TJ/JR/14 for a top-10 & Melo pick doesn't even fit rebuild or retooling: it shuffles the distribution of salary and young talent. I can stand (but not like) sending out youth for vets in the name of building a contender, as well as shipping out vets for picks/youth in the name of a rebuild. But shuffling the deck for the sake of doing something better involve getting back a better hand than we had - but then why would the other team do it?

I can see Beenie's reasoning to a degree, but think in both cases at best we do a minor talent consolidation, at worst it's 1 step forward for 2 steps backwards.
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Re: What is Riles top priority this offseason and what would be yours? 

Post#80 » by Beenie » Tue May 16, 2017 5:17 pm

To those who think the idea of improving the current roster with vets and adding an influx of youth are mutually exclusive, I'd say the Spurs have continuously debunked that notion.

And to expand on my trade idea with the Knicks - the PG we'd draft coupled with Melo, imo, is definitively better than Dragic and Mcgruder (our end of year starters last season). I also prefer Melo shooting the last shot in a close game than anyone on our current roster - certainly more than Dragic who struggled often when manning that role. Waiters and Melo at the end of the game give the team 2 strong iso options and with potentially either Fox or Smith, the team would have a 3rd.

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