Miami HEAT Offseason/Trades/FA Thread: Sardine Central 2.0
Posted: Sun Jul 2, 2017 7:47 pm
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Miami HEAT Offseason/Trades/FA Thread: Sardine Central 2.0
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Re: Miami HEAT Offseason/Trades/FA Thread: Sardine Central 2.0
Posted: Sun Jul 2, 2017 7:48 pm
Soon.
Re: Miami HEAT Offseason/Trades/FA Thread: Sardine Central 2.0
Posted: Sun Jul 2, 2017 7:51 pm
I'm not buying into this "favorite" nonsense. We know nothing. Hayward's no closer to Boston or Miami than he is re-signing with Utah.
Re: Miami HEAT Offseason/Trades/FA Thread: Sardine Central 2.0
Posted: Sun Jul 2, 2017 7:55 pm
Am I crazy for thinking the Heat w/ Hayward might be a better playoff team than the Celtchits w/ Hayward?
JJohnson/Bam
Hayward/Winslow
Whiteside/sardine
Dragic/JRich
TJohnson/Ellington
I think that's a more balanced and versatile team with a more complete "big 3" than Boston with a Hayward/IT/Horford trio and their glut of swingmen. Adding Hayward does nothing to address Boston's legit interior D and rebounding problems and it only further complicates the development of Jaylen Brown and now Tatum. Hayward's greatest value to Miami would be as a primary wing scorer/playmaker, and that value would be maximized in Miami whereas it would be redundant to a degree with IT in Boston. Also, Hayward taking offensive production from IT really cuts into IT's net value as your starting PG because if he's not getting you an efficient 25-30 ppg then you kinda have to question whether he's worth the defensive liability he brings.
JJohnson/Bam
Hayward/Winslow
Whiteside/sardine
Dragic/JRich
TJohnson/Ellington
I think that's a more balanced and versatile team with a more complete "big 3" than Boston with a Hayward/IT/Horford trio and their glut of swingmen. Adding Hayward does nothing to address Boston's legit interior D and rebounding problems and it only further complicates the development of Jaylen Brown and now Tatum. Hayward's greatest value to Miami would be as a primary wing scorer/playmaker, and that value would be maximized in Miami whereas it would be redundant to a degree with IT in Boston. Also, Hayward taking offensive production from IT really cuts into IT's net value as your starting PG because if he's not getting you an efficient 25-30 ppg then you kinda have to question whether he's worth the defensive liability he brings.
Re: Miami HEAT Offseason/Trades/FA Thread: Sardine Central 2.0
Posted: Sun Jul 2, 2017 7:58 pm
CaliHeat wrote:So there is no way for the Heat to sign Hayward, JJ and Waiters?
Dragic / TJ
Waiters / JRich
Hayward / Mcgruder
JJ / Winslow / White
Whiteside / Bam / Haslem
We could have a sign-and-trade with Utah. If we take this road, $23,680,000 is all the cap space required to sign Gordon Hayward. We could use free cap space and a future first round pick or send some of our players. We could also use a combination of both. For example, we could sign Dion Waiters and James Johnson. Right after signing both players, we can proceed to have a sign-and-trade with Utah. On the other hand, we could send to Utah the group of Wayne Ellington ($6,270,000), Josh McRoberts ($6,021,175), Okaro White ($1,312,611) and Tyler Johnson ($7.8 million - he has a 15 percent trade bonus, which would pay him $3.8 million. The Heat would pay that, but his cap hits would increase to $7.8 million). By choosing to send this group of players, we we don't have to attach a future first round pick. I hope this answers your question.
Re: Miami HEAT Offseason/Trades/FA Thread: Sardine Central 2.0
Posted: Sun Jul 2, 2017 8:02 pm
Re: Miami HEAT Offseason/Trades/FA Thread: Sardine Central 2.0
Posted: Sun Jul 2, 2017 8:05 pm
OP will cost us hayward now gg.
Re: Miami HEAT Offseason/Trades/FA Thread: Sardine Central 2.0
Posted: Sun Jul 2, 2017 8:05 pm
UD4MVP wrote:Quick someone track Rileys flight
Re: Miami HEAT Offseason/Trades/FA Thread: Sardine Central 2.0
Posted: Sun Jul 2, 2017 8:10 pm
JLop wrote:CaliHeat wrote:So there is no way for the Heat to sign Hayward, JJ and Waiters?
Dragic / TJ
Waiters / JRich
Hayward / Mcgruder
JJ / Winslow / White
Whiteside / Bam / Haslem
We could have a sign-and-trade with Utah. If we take this road, $23,680,000 is all the cap space required to sign Gordon Hayward. We could use free cap space and a future first round pick or send some of our players. We could also use a combination of both. For example, we could sign Dion Waiters and James Johnson. Right after signing both players, we can proceed to have a sign-and-trade with Utah. On the other hand, we could send to Utah the group of Wayne Ellington ($6,270,000), Josh McRoberts ($6,021,175), Okaro White ($1,312,611) and Tyler Johnson ($7.8 million - he has a 15 percent trade bonus, which would pay him $3.8 million. The Heat would pay that, but his cap hits would increase to $7.8 million). By choosing to send this group of players, we we don't have to attach a future first round pick. I hope this answers your question.
So, why would Utah help us acquire their player if we're not sending a pick? I'm going to rule out altruism and add that Wayne Ellington, Josh McRoberts, Okaro White, and (even) Tyler Johnson are not universally viewed as assets. McRoberts we would all wish to be rid of. Okaro White is one year removed from D-League hell. TJ is on a big contract that is worse for Utah than us (because we at least got 3 years of cheap TJ already.) Wayne Ellington isn't a bad deal, but it's not like he had a lot of suitors last season when we signed him.
We need to send Utah TWO picks to get that done.
Also, are you *sure* that TJ's cap on the receiving side changes? The trade bonus (which expires on 7/10, right?) is paid by the Heat, so it should never affect Utah's cap.
Re: Miami HEAT Offseason/Trades/FA Thread: Sardine Central 2.0
Posted: Sun Jul 2, 2017 8:10 pm
"Gordon Hayward to meet with Utah Jazz in San Diego". Gordon Came to Miami and went to Boston. Those are bad news for Utah. 
Re: Miami HEAT Offseason/Trades/FA Thread: Sardine Central 2.0
Posted: Sun Jul 2, 2017 8:13 pm
RIP Utah
Re: Miami HEAT Offseason/Trades/FA Thread: Sardine Central 2.0
Posted: Sun Jul 2, 2017 8:14 pm
gom wrote:JLop wrote:CaliHeat wrote:So there is no way for the Heat to sign Hayward, JJ and Waiters?
Dragic / TJ
Waiters / JRich
Hayward / Mcgruder
JJ / Winslow / White
Whiteside / Bam / Haslem
We could have a sign-and-trade with Utah. If we take this road, $23,680,000 is all the cap space required to sign Gordon Hayward. We could use free cap space and a future first round pick or send some of our players. We could also use a combination of both. For example, we could sign Dion Waiters and James Johnson. Right after signing both players, we can proceed to have a sign-and-trade with Utah. On the other hand, we could send to Utah the group of Wayne Ellington ($6,270,000), Josh McRoberts ($6,021,175), Okaro White ($1,312,611) and Tyler Johnson ($7.8 million - he has a 15 percent trade bonus, which would pay him $3.8 million. The Heat would pay that, but his cap hits would increase to $7.8 million). By choosing to send this group of players, we we don't have to attach a future first round pick. I hope this answers your question.
So, why would Utah help us acquire their player if we're not sending a pick? I'm going to rule out altruism and add that Wayne Ellington, Josh McRoberts, Okaro White, and (even) Tyler Johnson are not universally viewed as assets. McRoberts we would all wish to be rid of. Okaro White is one year removed from D-League hell. TJ is on a big contract that is worse for Utah than us (because we at least got 3 years of cheap TJ already.) Wayne Ellington isn't a bad deal, but it's not like he had a lot of suitors last season when we signed him.
We need to send Utah TWO picks to get that done.
This is not a regular trade Gom. This is a sign-and-trade. Gordon Hayward is a free agent and we have enough free cap space to pay his salary. On top of that, Utah plays for the Western Conference and we play for the Eastern Conference.
Re: Miami HEAT Offseason/Trades/FA Thread: Sardine Central 2.0
Posted: Sun Jul 2, 2017 8:16 pm
JLop wrote:gom wrote:JLop wrote:
We could have a sign-and-trade with Utah. If we take this road, $23,680,000 is all the cap space required to sign Gordon Hayward. We could use free cap space and a future first round pick or send some of our players. We could also use a combination of both. For example, we could sign Dion Waiters and James Johnson. Right after signing both players, we can proceed to have a sign-and-trade with Utah. On the other hand, we could send to Utah the group of Wayne Ellington ($6,270,000), Josh McRoberts ($6,021,175), Okaro White ($1,312,611) and Tyler Johnson ($7.8 million - he has a 15 percent trade bonus, which would pay him $3.8 million. The Heat would pay that, but his cap hits would increase to $7.8 million). By choosing to send this group of players, we we don't have to attach a future first round pick. I hope this answers your question.
So, why would Utah help us acquire their player if we're not sending a pick? I'm going to rule out altruism and add that Wayne Ellington, Josh McRoberts, Okaro White, and (even) Tyler Johnson are not universally viewed as assets. McRoberts we would all wish to be rid of. Okaro White is one year removed from D-League hell. TJ is on a big contract that is worse for Utah than us (because we at least got 3 years of cheap TJ already.) Wayne Ellington isn't a bad deal, but it's not like he had a lot of suitors last season when we signed him.
We need to send Utah TWO picks to get that done.
This is not a regular trade Gom. This is a sign-and-trade. Gordon Hayward is a free agent and we have enough free cap space to pay his salary. On top of that, Utah plays for the Western Conference and we play for the Eastern Conference.
I'm afraid I'm very skeptical. If we get to the point of a sign-and-trade, Boston has a lot more assets than we have.
I mean, maybe if you switched out McRoberts for Winslow and Okaro White for Richardson they might listen. Our guys you have listed don't have the value you think they do (to other teams.)
Re: Miami HEAT Offseason/Trades/FA Thread: Sardine Central 2.0
Posted: Sun Jul 2, 2017 8:17 pm
JLop wrote:"Gordon Hayward to meet with Utah Jazz in San Diego". Gordon Came to Miami and went to Boston. Those are bad news for Utah.
Supposedly, Utah's arena and practice facility are under construction and he has a house in San Diego. I wouldn't look too much into it honestly.
Re: Miami HEAT Offseason/Trades/FA Thread: Sardine Central 2.0
Posted: Sun Jul 2, 2017 8:22 pm
LordRiley wrote:JLop wrote:"Gordon Hayward to meet with Utah Jazz in San Diego". Gordon Came to Miami and went to Boston. Those are bad news for Utah.
Supposedly, Utah's arena and practice facility are under construction and he has a house in San Diego. I wouldn't look too much into it honestly.
Are they renovating all the office and conference room spaces in the state of Utah too?
Re: Miami HEAT Offseason/Trades/FA Thread: Sardine Central 2.0
Posted: Sun Jul 2, 2017 8:22 pm
gom wrote:JLop wrote:gom wrote:
So, why would Utah help us acquire their player if we're not sending a pick? I'm going to rule out altruism and add that Wayne Ellington, Josh McRoberts, Okaro White, and (even) Tyler Johnson are not universally viewed as assets. McRoberts we would all wish to be rid of. Okaro White is one year removed from D-League hell. TJ is on a big contract that is worse for Utah than us (because we at least got 3 years of cheap TJ already.) Wayne Ellington isn't a bad deal, but it's not like he had a lot of suitors last season when we signed him.
We need to send Utah TWO picks to get that done.
This is not a regular trade Gom. This is a sign-and-trade. Gordon Hayward is a free agent and we have enough free cap space to pay his salary. On top of that, Utah plays for the Western Conference and we play for the Eastern Conference.
I'm afraid I'm very skeptical. If we get to the point of a sign-and-trade, Boston has a lot more assets than we have.
Once again Gom, this is not a regular trade. This is a sign-and-trade. Gordon Hayward is the one who decides this trade. Boston plays no part on this. And if we send draft picks or players is very objective. Because we are not the ones closing the deal. This transaction might need more assets, it could need less assets.
Re: Miami HEAT Offseason/Trades/FA Thread: Sardine Central 2.0
Posted: Sun Jul 2, 2017 8:23 pm
gom wrote:JLop wrote:gom wrote:
So, why would Utah help us acquire their player if we're not sending a pick? I'm going to rule out altruism and add that Wayne Ellington, Josh McRoberts, Okaro White, and (even) Tyler Johnson are not universally viewed as assets. McRoberts we would all wish to be rid of. Okaro White is one year removed from D-League hell. TJ is on a big contract that is worse for Utah than us (because we at least got 3 years of cheap TJ already.) Wayne Ellington isn't a bad deal, but it's not like he had a lot of suitors last season when we signed him.
We need to send Utah TWO picks to get that done.
This is not a regular trade Gom. This is a sign-and-trade. Gordon Hayward is a free agent and we have enough free cap space to pay his salary. On top of that, Utah plays for the Western Conference and we play for the Eastern Conference.
I'm afraid I'm very skeptical. If we get to the point of a sign-and-trade, Boston has a lot more assets than we have.
I mean, maybe if you switched out McRoberts for Winslow and Okaro White for Richardson they might listen. Our guys you have listed don't have the value you think they do (to other teams.)
You're missing the point
Utah isnt fielding offers for Hayward, they don't have leverage. They can either get nothing (he leaves) or get compensated. I'd be willing to give them Jrich if it means us creating the room to keep JJ and Waiters
Dragic
Dion
Hayward
JJ
Whiteside
In my very biased opinion top to bottom we are the best team in the East with that 5
Re: Miami HEAT Offseason/Trades/FA Thread: Sardine Central 2.0
Posted: Sun Jul 2, 2017 8:24 pm
gom wrote:JLop wrote:gom wrote:
So, why would Utah help us acquire their player if we're not sending a pick? I'm going to rule out altruism and add that Wayne Ellington, Josh McRoberts, Okaro White, and (even) Tyler Johnson are not universally viewed as assets. McRoberts we would all wish to be rid of. Okaro White is one year removed from D-League hell. TJ is on a big contract that is worse for Utah than us (because we at least got 3 years of cheap TJ already.) Wayne Ellington isn't a bad deal, but it's not like he had a lot of suitors last season when we signed him.
We need to send Utah TWO picks to get that done.
This is not a regular trade Gom. This is a sign-and-trade. Gordon Hayward is a free agent and we have enough free cap space to pay his salary. On top of that, Utah plays for the Western Conference and we play for the Eastern Conference.
I'm afraid I'm very skeptical. If we get to the point of a sign-and-trade, Boston has a lot more assets than we have.
I mean, maybe if you switched out McRoberts for Winslow and Okaro White for Richardson they might listen. Our guys you have listed don't have the value you think they do (to other teams.)
If after signing JJ and Dion (for combined ~20 million), how much salary do we have to send over to UTAH in this sign and trade scenario? would Mcroberts + Ellington + 2023 first and second round draft pick + Okaro White work?
Maybe we can attach sweeteners like first round draft swap too...
Re: Miami HEAT Offseason/Trades/FA Thread: Sardine Central 2.0
Posted: Sun Jul 2, 2017 8:33 pm
Re: Miami HEAT Offseason/Trades/FA Thread: Sardine Central 2.0
Posted: Sun Jul 2, 2017 8:36 pm
JLop wrote:gom wrote:JLop wrote:
This is not a regular trade Gom. This is a sign-and-trade. Gordon Hayward is a free agent and we have enough free cap space to pay his salary. On top of that, Utah plays for the Western Conference and we play for the Eastern Conference.
I'm afraid I'm very skeptical. If we get to the point of a sign-and-trade, Boston has a lot more assets than we have.
Once again Gom, this is not a regular trade. This is a sign-and-trade. Gordon Hayward is the one who decides this trade. Boston plays no part on this. And if we send draft picks or players is very objective. Because we are not the ones closing the deal. This transaction might need more assets, it could need less assets.
Utah could just refuse to cooperate. Do you realize that we don't have any space to sign Hayward after we sign Dion and James Johnson? That leaves Boston and Utah in the running. In other words, we lose.
Moreover, you never addressed the fact that the "assets" you are sending aren't assets to other teams in the league. Don't take my word for it. Go post this on the T&T board and see how many people trash your trade.