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Welcome Tyler Herro

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Re: Welcome Tyler Herro 

Post#61 » by RexBoyWonder » Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:48 pm

I feeling very optimistic about this pick. I think his shooting and handle will translate alot better then some of the skills Langford or Nassir showed.

Can you think of any great shooters with good size for their positions, high IQ, mobile - that didn't became very good players?
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Re: Welcome Tyler Herro 

Post#62 » by Bishop45 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:11 pm

RexBoyWonder wrote:I feeling very optimistic about this pick. I think his shooting and handle will translate alot better then some of the skills Langford or Nassir showed.

Can you think of any great shooters with good size for their positions, high IQ, mobile - that didn't became very good players?


For context- You're comparing a 35% shooter with average to mediocre athleticism to some of the best scorers in the NBA. Can you think of any great scorers that have returned that bill?
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Re: Welcome Tyler Herro 

Post#63 » by heat4life » Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:37 pm

RexBoyWonder wrote:
BFRESH44 wrote:Herro is more Jamal Murray with the way he creates space than Booker. Ironically, another Kentucky product.


Murray took 13 shots per game his second year, age 20.

9 shots per game his rookie year, same age as Herro.

And that Denver team almost made the playoffs in the West, it's not like he played meaningless games.


I'm just praying Herro gets 9 minutes per game.


Who was playing ahead of Murray that year? Was it Mudiay?

My point is that with Waiters, Dragic and J-Rich on the roster, it’ll be challenging for Herro to get 9 shots per game unless he is fire from the get to.

I can see the scenario where Herro spends the first half of the season developing mostly and then he starts contributing to the team slowly in the 2nd half. Not due to a lack of skill to contribute but more because of the system and physical development.

His body needs work in order to withstand the powerful picks and screens he’ll have to go thru unlike college.

Because of that, I just don’t see a 9 attempts per game average for his 1st season. Maybe in the 2nd half alone he might get to those numbers of shots.
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Re: Welcome Tyler Herro 

Post#64 » by RexBoyWonder » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:36 pm

Bishop45 wrote:
RexBoyWonder wrote:I feeling very optimistic about this pick. I think his shooting and handle will translate alot better then some of the skills Langford or Nassir showed.

Can you think of any great shooters with good size for their positions, high IQ, mobile - that didn't became very good players?


For context- You're comparing a 35% shooter with average to mediocre athleticism to some of the best scorers in the NBA. Can you think of any great scorers that have returned that bill?


Wait, are D.Booker/JJ Reddick/Korver/Curry/old Ray Allen/Drazen Petrovic/Jeff Hornacek/Chris Mullin/Reggie Miller/Nash -

All in a different tier athletically then him?

The point is, I don't think a guard has to be an elite athlete to become a very good player in today's league.

The style, rules, refs and coaching all favor the skilled "gentle" types, as apposed to the pure athlete.

I can't say if Herro has that potential before seeing him against NBA defenders, but I won't rule it out due to him not being a superb athlete.

About the 35%, that's just lazy. By now we all know that statistically, FT% is the more accurate indicator of elite shooting in the NBA. We also know that Herro started off slow, but finshed by shooting 42% from 3 in the second half of the season, where he faced better teams, better defenders, and played more important meaningful games under higher pressure.

We also know he shot better then any player ever to go through our pre-draft shooting drills.

I see no reason to believe he can't become a very good player in this league.
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Re: Welcome Tyler Herro 

Post#65 » by RexBoyWonder » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:40 pm

heat4life wrote:
RexBoyWonder wrote:
BFRESH44 wrote:Herro is more Jamal Murray with the way he creates space than Booker. Ironically, another Kentucky product.


Murray took 13 shots per game his second year, age 20.

9 shots per game his rookie year, same age as Herro.

And that Denver team almost made the playoffs in the West, it's not like he played meaningless games.


I'm just praying Herro gets 9 minutes per game.


Who was playing ahead of Murray that year? Was it Mudiay?

My point is that with Waiters, Dragic and J-Rich on the roster, it’ll be challenging for Herro to get 9 shots per game unless he is fire from the get to.

I can see the scenario where Herro spends the first half of the season developing mostly and then he starts contributing to the team slowly in the 2nd half. Not due to a lack of skill to contribute but more because of the system and physical development.

His body needs work in order to withstand the powerful picks and screens he’ll have to go thru unlike college.

Because of that, I just don’t see a 9 attempts per game average for his 1st season. Maybe in the 2nd half alone he might get to those numbers of shots.


A simpler answer could be - Spo.

If you believe in a guy you selected, and you're really playing for anything meaningful (8 seed isn't meaningful) - and your other options are guys you can't wait to get rid of - you find a way to develop your home grown talent. You just find a way. Not 4 down the road, but right now. Just like the Nuggets and other teams often do with their young players.
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Re: Welcome Tyler Herro 

Post#66 » by BFRESH44 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:51 pm

The onus will be on Riley to save Spo from himself. Spo is going to coach to win basketball games. That's his M.O. It's on management to put mandates in place on youth player development. Soon as one of these teams strike out in free agency, sell off Dragic to the highest bidder(aka The Knicks).
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Re: Welcome Tyler Herro 

Post#67 » by Bishop45 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:52 pm

RexBoyWonder wrote:
Bishop45 wrote:
RexBoyWonder wrote:I feeling very optimistic about this pick. I think his shooting and handle will translate alot better then some of the skills Langford or Nassir showed.

Can you think of any great shooters with good size for their positions, high IQ, mobile - that didn't became very good players?


For context- You're comparing a 35% shooter with average to mediocre athleticism to some of the best scorers in the NBA. Can you think of any great scorers that have returned that bill?


Wait, are D.Booker/JJ Reddick/Korver/Curry/old Ray Allen/Drazen Petrovic/Jeff Hornacek/Chris Mullin/Reggie Miller/Nash -

All in a different tier athletically then him?

The point is, I don't think a guard has to be an elite athlete to become a very good player in today's league.

The style, rules, refs and coaching all favor the skilled "gentle" types, as apposed to the pure athlete.

I can't say if Herro has that potential before seeing him against NBA defenders, but I won't rule it out due to him not being a superb athlete.

About the 35%, that's just lazy. By now we all know that statistically, FT% is the more accurate indicator of elite shooting in the NBA. We also know that Herro started off slow, but finshed by shooting 42% from in the second half of the season, where he faced better teams, better defenders, and played more important and more meaningful games.

We also know he shot better then any player ever to go through our pre-draft shooting drills.

I see no reason to believe he can't become a very good player in this league.


Booker/Ray Allen/Curry/Korver/Nash definitely are. Speed, agility, deceleration are big parts of the game for guards, and he's not on their tier. Their are slower guards, who score off of their craftiness, as much as their deceleration/agility but I don't see that kind of scorer in him.

I think he could be a good scorer and a good player tho tbh Their are lots of players without the whole package whom are good players
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Re: Welcome Tyler Herro 

Post#68 » by CrossOver » Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:16 pm

Herro's negative wingspan concerns me more for the defensive side of the ball. By all accounts, Herro was a solid defender when he was engaged at Kentucky but that lack of length can make it that much more difficult to guard SG/SF in today's NBA. Spo's propensity to want to go with guys that aren't a big liability on defense could impact how he develops.

Initially, I was really upset that they didn't go with Little, Langford or Sekou but just sort of digging through stuff on Herro a bit more I do see the potential of how he can be a strong offensive piece to the core of Winslow, JR, Bam and DJJ. I think the goal is to get that core to continue developing and when the cap space opens up you find that star to put them over the top.
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Re: Welcome Tyler Herro 

Post#69 » by Bishop45 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:19 pm

Probably one of the journalists I agree with, and disagree with, the most; likely means for having an original opinion, which is why I still read his stuff

Lot of things I did not hear the last few days about Herro that are encouraging, but I still agree with the premise

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Re: Welcome Tyler Herro 

Post#70 » by Heat_team02 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:12 pm

According to his Game Log, Tyler took

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/tyler-herro-1/gamelog/9999/

17 shots 1 time 35%FG
14 shots 3 times 50%FG
13 shots 5 times 49% FG
12 shots 8 times 53% FG
11 shots 6 times 38% FG
10 shots 4 times 60%FG
9 shots 4 times 41% FG
8 shots 1 time 75% FG
7 shots 1 time 43% FG
6 shots 2 times 16% FG
3 shots 1 time 33% FG
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Re: Welcome Tyler Herro 

Post#71 » by Wiltside » Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:21 pm

Let's not put him on the Curry/Allen/Booker tier. I don't really like seeing those comparisons thrown around - we're setting ourselves up for disappointment. I know Booker averaged 10 a game, was relegated to spot up shooter, and also went to Kentucky...I get the comparisons, but I really don't think he's gonna get near Devin as a player. He's probably one of the most underrated players in the league. 26/4/7 on just under 47%.

Hopefully Tyler will have a solid showing in Summer League that he can use to propel him into a great training camp. From all reports he's competitive and a worker, so that should fit well with the rest of our young crew.

After the initial disappointment of draft night - I'm warming to the idea of the pick. I can at least see the reasoning behind why we've picked Herro, despite the fact I personally wanted Langford or Little. We have all been screaming for Point Justise with shooters. Lets hope we actually run it this season - Point Justise with Herro/JRich/Kelly as the shooters, Bam as the roll man (and occasional pop J/Trey).
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Re: Welcome Tyler Herro 

Post#72 » by MiamiSun » Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:00 am

Watching his clips this past few days and I can't help but compare him to Thunder Dan Marjele. Has some nastiness to him as well. I am content and looking forward to seeing him develop.
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Re: Welcome Tyler Herro 

Post#73 » by Bhut Jolokia » Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:09 pm

I’m worried that Herro’s shorter wingspan could cause him problems as a full time SG. He might be better off as a PG if he can improve his quickness. Maybe that’s something he can work on if possible.
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Re: Welcome Tyler Herro 

Post#74 » by Heat_team02 » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:16 pm

heat4life wrote:
RexBoyWonder wrote:
BFRESH44 wrote:Herro is more Jamal Murray with the way he creates space than Booker. Ironically, another Kentucky product.


Murray took 13 shots per game his second year, age 20.

9 shots per game his rookie year, same age as Herro.

And that Denver team almost made the playoffs in the West, it's not like he played meaningless games.


I'm just praying Herro gets 9 minutes per game.


Who was playing ahead of Murray that year? Was it Mudiay?

My point is that with Waiters, Dragic and J-Rich on the roster, it’ll be challenging for Herro to get 9 shots per game unless he is fire from the get to.

I can see the scenario where Herro spends the first half of the season developing mostly and then he starts contributing to the team slowly in the 2nd half. Not due to a lack of skill to contribute but more because of the system and physical development.

His body needs work in order to withstand the powerful picks and screens he’ll have to go thru unlike college.

Because of that, I just don’t see a 9 attempts per game average for his 1st season. Maybe in the 2nd half alone he might get to those numbers of shots.



What concerns me is contact like in 7:06 where it comes from nowhere and causes him to have to sit. This one was no biggie but the point is teams are going to go at him hard.

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Re: Welcome Tyler Herro 

Post#75 » by Feel_the_Heat15 » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:20 pm

Wiltside wrote:Let's not put him on the Curry/Allen/Booker tier. I don't really like seeing those comparisons thrown around - we're setting ourselves up for disappointment. I know Booker averaged 10 a game, was relegated to spot up shooter, and also went to Kentucky...I get the comparisons, but I really don't think he's gonna get near Devin as a player. He's probably one of the most underrated players in the league. 26/4/7 on just under 47%.

Hopefully Tyler will have a solid showing in Summer League that he can use to propel him into a great training camp. From all reports he's competitive and a worker, so that should fit well with the rest of our young crew.

After the initial disappointment of draft night - I'm warming to the idea of the pick. I can at least see the reasoning behind why we've picked Herro, despite the fact I personally wanted Langford or Little. We have all been screaming for Point Justise with shooters. Lets hope we actually run it this season - Point Justise with Herro/JRich/Kelly as the shooters, Bam as the roll man (and occasional pop J/Trey).


Booker is far from underrated. Great scorer but his defense is awful.
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Re: Welcome Tyler Herro 

Post#76 » by Rock Hardy » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:34 pm

Wingspan is kinda overrated. I've never seen it be a major detriment to a player. Foot speed and awareness are far more important. If you're worried about his defense, that's the big thing to look at. How is his situational awareness, positioning, and footwork. He seems to have good balance, so hopefully those are things can be coached up.
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Re: Welcome Tyler Herro 

Post#77 » by CrossOver » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:14 pm

Rock Hardy wrote:Wingspan is kinda overrated. I've never seen it be a major detriment to a player. Foot speed and awareness are far more important. If you're worried about his defense, that's the big thing to look at. How is his situational awareness, positioning, and footwork. He seems to have good balance, so hopefully those are things can be coached up.


Well negative wingspan is really rare in the NBA. Only active players that I can currently find with negative wingspans in the NBA are JJ Redick, Kelly Olynyk, Frank Kaminsky and Mason Plumlee (possibly missing some others).

I'm not saying he can't be successful but not having that elite athleticism to compensate for the lack of length will make it more challenging to reach the type of upside some people are pegging on him already. Like you mentioned, it's going to take high level of awareness, basketball IQ and coaching to potentially reach his peak.
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Re: Welcome Tyler Herro 

Post#78 » by -MK- » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:24 pm

CrossOver wrote:Well negative wingspan is really rare in the NBA. Only active players that I can currently find with negative wingspans in the NBA are JJ Redick, Kelly Olynyk, Frank Kaminsky and Mason Plumlee (possibly missing some others).


I wouldn't say it's that rare. Here are all the players with negative wingspan and height (with shoes) difference (data from Draft Combine, since 2004):

Spoiler:
-3.75 in.:
Martynas Andriuskevicius

-3 in.:
Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk

-2.75 in.:
Tyler Herro
Jon Scheyer

-2.5 in.:
Svi Mykhailiuk

-2.25 in.:
Kelly Olynyk

-1.75 in.:
Jared Jordan
Dylan Page
Frank Kaminsky

-1.5 in.:
Cody Zeller
Ty Jerome
Mason Plumlee
Keith Brumbaugh
JJ Redick

-1.25 in.:
Travis Diener

-1 in.:
Nemanja Aleksandrov
Nate Wolters
Jeff Taylor
Daryl Dorsey

-0.75 in.:
Trey Johnson
Mohamed Abukar
Justin Doellman
Shane Larkin
Marko Tomas
Eric Maynor
Jason Smith

-0.5 in.:
Luka Samanic
Kyle Visser
Melo Trimble
Tyler Zeller
Jon Diebler
Maarty Leunen
Thomas Welsh
Pierre Jackson
Monta Ellis
Tom Timmerrmans

-0.25 in.:
Spencer Hawes
Jared Dudley
Ryan Kelly
Jimmy Butler
Randall Orr
Kenrich Williams
Joe Harris
Jiri Hubalek
Jarell Martin
Gordon Hayward
Frans Steyn
Luke Kennard
Tomas Satoransky
Chandler Parsons

But Tyler Herro does have one of the worst wingspan to height ratio in recent NBA history.
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Re: Welcome Tyler Herro 

Post#79 » by JustiseForMiami » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:45 pm

-MK- wrote:
CrossOver wrote:Well negative wingspan is really rare in the NBA. Only active players that I can currently find with negative wingspans in the NBA are JJ Redick, Kelly Olynyk, Frank Kaminsky and Mason Plumlee (possibly missing some others).


I wouldn't say it's that rare. Here are all the players with negative wingspan and height (with shoes) difference (data from Draft Combine, since 2004):

Spoiler:
-3.75 in.:
Martynas Andriuskevicius

-3 in.:
Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk

-2.75 in.:
Tyler Herro
Jon Scheyer

-2.5 in.:
Svi Mykhailiuk

-2.25 in.:
Kelly Olynyk

-1.75 in.:
Jared Jordan
Dylan Page
Frank Kaminsky

-1.5 in.:
Cody Zeller
Ty Jerome
Mason Plumlee
Keith Brumbaugh
JJ Redick

-1.25 in.:
Travis Diener

-1 in.:
Nemanja Aleksandrov
Nate Wolters
Jeff Taylor
Daryl Dorsey

-0.75 in.:
Trey Johnson
Mohamed Abukar
Justin Doellman
Shane Larkin
Marko Tomas
Eric Maynor
Jason Smith

-0.5 in.:
Luka Samanic
Kyle Visser
Melo Trimble
Tyler Zeller
Jon Diebler
Maarty Leunen
Thomas Welsh
Pierre Jackson
Monta Ellis
Tom Timmerrmans

-0.25 in.:
Spencer Hawes
Jared Dudley
Ryan Kelly
Jimmy Butler
Randall Orr
Kenrich Williams
Joe Harris
Jiri Hubalek
Jarell Martin
Gordon Hayward
Frans Steyn
Luke Kennard
Tomas Satoransky
Chandler Parsons

But Tyler Herro does have one of the worst wingspan to height ratio in recent NBA history.



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Re: Welcome Tyler Herro 

Post#80 » by Wiltside » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:50 pm

JustiseForMiami wrote:
-MK- wrote:
CrossOver wrote:Well negative wingspan is really rare in the NBA. Only active players that I can currently find with negative wingspans in the NBA are JJ Redick, Kelly Olynyk, Frank Kaminsky and Mason Plumlee (possibly missing some others).


I wouldn't say it's that rare. Here are all the players with negative wingspan and height (with shoes) difference (data from Draft Combine, since 2004):

Spoiler:
-3.75 in.:
Martynas Andriuskevicius

-3 in.:
Sviatoslav Mykhailiuk

-2.75 in.:
Tyler Herro
Jon Scheyer

-2.5 in.:
Svi Mykhailiuk

-2.25 in.:
Kelly Olynyk

-1.75 in.:
Jared Jordan
Dylan Page
Frank Kaminsky

-1.5 in.:
Cody Zeller
Ty Jerome
Mason Plumlee
Keith Brumbaugh
JJ Redick

-1.25 in.:
Travis Diener

-1 in.:
Nemanja Aleksandrov
Nate Wolters
Jeff Taylor
Daryl Dorsey

-0.75 in.:
Trey Johnson
Mohamed Abukar
Justin Doellman
Shane Larkin
Marko Tomas
Eric Maynor
Jason Smith

-0.5 in.:
Luka Samanic
Kyle Visser
Melo Trimble
Tyler Zeller
Jon Diebler
Maarty Leunen
Thomas Welsh
Pierre Jackson
Monta Ellis
Tom Timmerrmans

-0.25 in.:
Spencer Hawes
Jared Dudley
Ryan Kelly
Jimmy Butler
Randall Orr
Kenrich Williams
Joe Harris
Jiri Hubalek
Jarell Martin
Gordon Hayward
Frans Steyn
Luke Kennard
Tomas Satoransky
Chandler Parsons

But Tyler Herro does have one of the worst wingspan to height ratio in recent NBA history.



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