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Pat Riley

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Re: Pat Riley 

Post#41 » by unowen85 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:12 pm

Signing Waiters and Johnson to those long contracts, a little understandable, they had come off good seasons and you’re trying to build something, okay. Whatever.

But the most egregious thing he’s done, what is inexcusable, was not tanking this past year. It was a lost season. Stop overachieving for a little bit, lose some games, and hope for a chance to draft a future Hall of Famer. We did it back in 2003 hoping to get LeBron, came out with Wade and three championships. Not to say it always work out, we tanked for Rose and ended up with Beasley. But it’s a risk he should’ve taken again this past year. Our consolation prize is Herro, when it could’ve been a player like Williamson, or Morant or Barret.
For a long time it gave me nightmares,witnessing an injustice like that.It’s a constant reminder of just how unfair this world can be.I can still hear them taunting him, Silly Rabbit tricks are for kids.I mean why couldn’t they just give him some cereal?
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Re: Pat Riley 

Post#42 » by RexBoyWonder » Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:36 pm

radikalBaller wrote:Riley just sound completely out of touch and looks old and tired, it would be wise to step down and take lighter role...this front office has nothing to show non wade related since 2014...been almost 6 years... :noway:

Wade had been the biggest succes factor all along, and they got him in the draft when Riley wanted Kaman...hope Hero was not Riley choice and hope that Sekou, Langford and Bol don't come to bite them back in the arse


I feel good about Herro and his potential, but this scares me. In a couple of years we could look pretty follish for discounting a high upside guy with all the tools just because he wasn't born in the states.
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Re: Pat Riley 

Post#43 » by Maroko » Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:17 pm

how to sum up the draft night

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Re: Pat Riley 

Post#44 » by Heat3 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:22 pm

Pat Riley has stepped down. OP has been hired as President of the Heat. What is your course of action?
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Re: Pat Riley 

Post#45 » by Dr_Heat » Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:28 pm

unowen85 wrote:Signing Waiters and Johnson to those long contracts, a little understandable, they had come off good seasons and you’re trying to build something, okay. Whatever.

But the most egregious thing he’s done, what is inexcusable, was not tanking this past year. It was a lost season. Stop overachieving for a little bit, lose some games, and hope for a chance to draft a future Hall of Famer. We did it back in 2003 hoping to get LeBron, came out with Wade and three championships. Not to say it always work out, we tanked for Rose and ended up with Beasley. But it’s a risk he should’ve taken again this past year. Our consolation prize is Herro, when it could’ve been a player like Williamson, or Morant or Barret.


This man speaks the truth
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Re: Pat Riley 

Post#46 » by Flash4thewin » Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:35 pm

Dr_Heat wrote:
unowen85 wrote:Signing Waiters and Johnson to those long contracts, a little understandable, they had come off good seasons and you’re trying to build something, okay. Whatever.

But the most egregious thing he’s done, what is inexcusable, was not tanking this past year. It was a lost season. Stop overachieving for a little bit, lose some games, and hope for a chance to draft a future Hall of Famer. We did it back in 2003 hoping to get LeBron, came out with Wade and three championships. Not to say it always work out, we tanked for Rose and ended up with Beasley. But it’s a risk he should’ve taken again this past year. Our consolation prize is Herro, when it could’ve been a player like Williamson, or Morant or Barret.


This man speaks the truth


That is not factoring Spo and how he treats rookies. We still dont have a real clue what Winslow is. Some say a PG, others say a SF, Spo thinks PF, others says bench player etc. We need to actually develop our young talent.
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Re: Pat Riley 

Post#47 » by JustiseForMiami » Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:00 pm

Heat3 wrote:Pat Riley has stepped down. OP has been hired as President of the Heat. What is your course of action?



At this point, see if we can get any type of positive value (future draft picks) for Hassan, Dragic, JJ, Dion.

Play the kids. Don't give roster spots to older players like Ryan Anderson and Udonis Haslem, and use them to develop players. When we have a chance to develop a guy, we usually do a solid job. The last 4-5 spots on the roster should all go to players under 22.

The ONLY long term contracts we should be giving out should be to superstars. No more mid range deals for mid range guys. We may be worse off this upcoming season, but we are in a tough spot anyways.

It's not necessarily about being in a position to land a max in 2020 - It's about putting yourself in a position with decent prospects and cap flexibility to make a move at any time. And if we miss in 2020 - sign players to 1 year deals to try to prove themselves and compete and go for it in 2021.

Rinse and repeat until you find a superstar (through development or FA/Trade) - never lock yourself into average teams.
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Re: Pat Riley 

Post#48 » by Maroko » Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:20 pm

JustiseForMiami wrote:
Heat3 wrote:Pat Riley has stepped down. OP has been hired as President of the Heat. What is your course of action?
Spoiler:
At this point, see if we can get any type of positive value (future draft picks) for Hassan, Dragic, JJ, Dion.

Play the kids. Don't give roster spots to older players like Ryan Anderson and Udonis Haslem, and use them to develop players. When we have a chance to develop a guy, we usually do a solid job. The last 4-5 spots on the roster should all go to players under 22.

The ONLY long term contracts we should be giving out should be to superstars. No more mid range deals for mid range guys. We may be worse off this upcoming season, but we are in a tough spot anyways.

It's not necessarily about being in a position to land a max in 2020 - It's about putting yourself in a position with decent prospects and cap flexibility to make a move at any time. And if we miss in 2020 - sign players to 1 year deals to try to prove themselves and compete and go for it in 2021.

Rinse and repeat until you find a superstar (through development or FA/Trade) - never lock yourself into average teams.


What about the coaching ? Many here complain about Spo not developping enough the young...
Which free agent are you going to chase ? Name 5 and order them by your priority

here a list of FA players

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/08/2020-nba-free-agents.html

Thx
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Re: Pat Riley 

Post#49 » by JustiseForMiami » Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:48 pm

Maroko wrote:
JustiseForMiami wrote:
Heat3 wrote:Pat Riley has stepped down. OP has been hired as President of the Heat. What is your course of action?
Spoiler:
At this point, see if we can get any type of positive value (future draft picks) for Hassan, Dragic, JJ, Dion.

Play the kids. Don't give roster spots to older players like Ryan Anderson and Udonis Haslem, and use them to develop players. When we have a chance to develop a guy, we usually do a solid job. The last 4-5 spots on the roster should all go to players under 22.

The ONLY long term contracts we should be giving out should be to superstars. No more mid range deals for mid range guys. We may be worse off this upcoming season, but we are in a tough spot anyways.

It's not necessarily about being in a position to land a max in 2020 - It's about putting yourself in a position with decent prospects and cap flexibility to make a move at any time. And if we miss in 2020 - sign players to 1 year deals to try to prove themselves and compete and go for it in 2021.

Rinse and repeat until you find a superstar (through development or FA/Trade) - never lock yourself into average teams.


What about the coaching ? Many here complain about Spo not developping enough the young...
Which free agent are you going to chase ? Name 5 and order them by your priority

here a list of FA players

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/08/2020-nba-free-agents.html

Thx



No problem, this is actually kinda fun.

Spo stays. He is one of the premier coaches in the NBA, and is respected as such. He is top 15 in all time win %. It's not even a remote possibility that Spo gets let go.

So heading into 2020 we will have (under my scenario where I hypothetically find someone to take JJ/Waiters as expirings)

Winslow
Herro
Richardson / DJJ
Kelly / KZ
Bam

+ a rookie 1st round pick added in

We are not going to have TOO many needs, and there is no max level player. So I look to fill out the roster offering guys 1 year prove it deals (very similar to JJ Redicks Philly deal) to have a competitive 2020 season heading into the max year of 2021 where I'm going after a Giannis/Beal combo. However I digress, back to the 2020 question. These are the 5 players I offer deals to (all 1 year deals)

1. Danillo Gallinari - I assume he is not going to be interested in a 1 year deal, but if he was I could definitely see us being interested. He would allow JRich to slide to the 2 (which I know people want) and would space the floor well. His size would also fit Spo's 2-3 if that's still a thing which I think it will be. (If he is not interested, Jae Crowder is the backup option)

2. Eric Gordon - Would fit well as a backup combo guard and a good shooting mentor for Herro. I could see him seeking a one year deal to rebuild some of his value. We could give him an opportunity to do so. (If he is not interested, Allen Crabbe would not be a bad fit)

3. Bismack Biyombo/Alex Len - These guys would both fit well behind Bam, not much else more to it. If one of them could come on a 1 year, 4 Mil deal that would make sense for us. Finding a big to spell Bam should be a priority when Whiteside leaves. Willie Reed is still young and could even be in this mix. (Mason Plumlee makes sense if not those 2)

4. Reggie Jackson - Not sure how many top opportunities he's gonna have, and has experience coming off the bench. Could be a good fit as a bench piece behind Winslow. This might have to be a 2 year deal, in that case we would probably look elsewhere. (If he is not interested, and Brandon Knight is healthy the fit would make sense. However I have a feeling that we could draft a PG next year)

5. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist - Again, on a 1 year deal Id like to see how he could do with a change of scenery. With KZ and DJJ developing as shooters, I could see us taking a flyer on another bench wing (plus you know we love Kentucky).



So let's say hypothetically we get a rookie PG, Alex Len, Eric Gordon and Kidd Gilchrist (on 1 year deals, if they say no, enter in the player you want - nobody is worth giving a 2nd year)

2020 lineup

Winslow/Rookie PG
Herro/Gordon
Richardson/DJJ
Kelly/KZ/MKG
Bam/Len

The only thing I can see changing is if a team wants Richardson, Kelly, DJJ, and our 2020 1RP for a STAR STAR (who I dont see) then we do that and things change.

My point is you ONLY sign 1 year players until you land a franchise guy.


2021 Dream

Winslow/2nd year PG
Richardson/Herro
Paul George
Giannis/KZ
Bam




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Re: Pat Riley 

Post#50 » by BBallFreak » Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:08 pm

I love that your scenario is just "trade JJ/Waiters for expiring deals."

Nope, not letting you off that easy. Who's taking them for expiring deals and what incentive are you willing to give?
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Re: Pat Riley 

Post#51 » by Hallstar » Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:25 pm

BBallFreak wrote:I love that your scenario is just "trade JJ/Waiters for expiring deals."

Nope, not letting you off that easy. Who's taking them for expiring deals and what incentive are you willing to give?


I agree with JustiseforMiami's course of action. The most important one is standing pat in 2020 or one year deals. Otherwise we'll be hearing about how 2025 was the real target.

But this is why I don't like these "here takeover now" scenarios.

I wouldn't have signed the bums so I wouldn't have to look to trade them.
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Re: Pat Riley 

Post#52 » by BBallFreak » Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:33 pm

Hallstar wrote:
BBallFreak wrote:I love that your scenario is just "trade JJ/Waiters for expiring deals."

Nope, not letting you off that easy. Who's taking them for expiring deals and what incentive are you willing to give?


I agree with JustiseforMiami's course of action. The most important one is standing pat in 2020 or one year deals. Otherwise we'll be hearing about how 2025 was the real target.

Cap space means flexibility. Might have been much easier for us to do with massive cap space and low-cost assets. If that space and an asset get us a star player, you don't stand pat. You seize the moment.
But this is why I don't like these "here takeover now" scenarios.

I wouldn't have signed the bums so I wouldn't have to look to trade them.

Wonderfully easy to say in hindsight, but when Gordan Hayward won't even talk to you (because you're not Pat Riley) and you've just gone 30-11 to end the season behind those guys, you might think differently...
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Re: Pat Riley 

Post#53 » by Hallstar » Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:40 pm

BBallFreak wrote:
Hallstar wrote:
BBallFreak wrote:I love that your scenario is just "trade JJ/Waiters for expiring deals."

Nope, not letting you off that easy. Who's taking them for expiring deals and what incentive are you willing to give?


I agree with JustiseforMiami's course of action. The most important one is standing pat in 2020 or one year deals. Otherwise we'll be hearing about how 2025 was the real target.

Cap space means flexibility. Might have been much easier for us to do with massive cap space and low-cost assets. If that space and an asset get us a star player, you don't stand pat. You seize the moment.
But this is why I don't like these "here takeover now" scenarios.

I wouldn't have signed the bums so I wouldn't have to look to trade them.

Wonderfully easy to say in hindsight, but when Gordan Hayward won't even talk to you (because you're not Pat Riley) and you've just gone 30-11 to end the season behind those guys, you might think differently...

I said no at the time, this is not hindsight. I didn't want them on the one year deals to begin with because it would hinder the youth. They hustled in a contract year and still we didn't hear rumors of anyone else being interested. That should've been a sign. I've been pretty clear on my dislike for those two from the gate.

As for the standing pat, of course you go for it if you get a star, but I'm not trying to hear how no one else signed so we had to give Kidd Gilchrist or whoever 15 mil a year. That's just Dion 2.0
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Re: Pat Riley 

Post#54 » by DayofMourning » Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:43 pm

BBallFreak wrote:
Hallstar wrote:
BBallFreak wrote:I love that your scenario is just "trade JJ/Waiters for expiring deals."

Nope, not letting you off that easy. Who's taking them for expiring deals and what incentive are you willing to give?


I agree with JustiseforMiami's course of action. The most important one is standing pat in 2020 or one year deals. Otherwise we'll be hearing about how 2025 was the real target.

Cap space means flexibility. Might have been much easier for us to do with massive cap space and low-cost assets. If that space and an asset get us a star player, you don't stand pat. You seize the moment.
But this is why I don't like these "here takeover now" scenarios.

I wouldn't have signed the bums so I wouldn't have to look to trade them.

Wonderfully easy to say in hindsight, but when Gordan Hayward won't even talk to you (because you're not Pat Riley) and you've just gone 30-11 to end the season behind those guys, you might think differently...


My god, if we had signed Gordan Hayward.....hoo boy. Thirty million for Hayward...that's the new NBA. Don't need none of that.

Amazing that Dion had the half year of his life, and effectively buried a franchise ripe to be exploited. Timing is everything.
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Re: Pat Riley 

Post#55 » by Heat3 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:50 pm

Hallstar wrote:
BBallFreak wrote:
Hallstar wrote:
I agree with JustiseforMiami's course of action. The most important one is standing pat in 2020 or one year deals. Otherwise we'll be hearing about how 2025 was the real target.

Cap space means flexibility. Might have been much easier for us to do with massive cap space and low-cost assets. If that space and an asset get us a star player, you don't stand pat. You seize the moment.
But this is why I don't like these "here takeover now" scenarios.

I wouldn't have signed the bums so I wouldn't have to look to trade them.

Wonderfully easy to say in hindsight, but when Gordan Hayward won't even talk to you (because you're not Pat Riley) and you've just gone 30-11 to end the season behind those guys, you might think differently...

I said no at the time, this is not hindsight. I didn't want them on the one year deals to begin with because it would hinder the youth. They hustled in a contract year and still we didn't hear rumors of anyone else being interested. That should've been a sign. I've been pretty clear on my dislike for those two from the gate.

As for the standing pat, of course you go for it if you get a star, but I'm not trying to hear how no one else signed so we had to give Kidd Gilchrist or whoever 15 mil a year. That's just Dion 2.0


If I recall you wanted to max out Wade. Not sure what position we would have been in to sign those bums with a max Wade on the roster. And as much as I enjoyed his return, not re-signing him was the right move.

The worst thing that happened was Spo being Spo and finishing that season 30-11. :nonono:
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James Johnson wrote:The culture is REAL.

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Re: Pat Riley 

Post#56 » by BBallFreak » Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:55 pm

DayofMourning wrote:
BBallFreak wrote:
Hallstar wrote:
I agree with JustiseforMiami's course of action. The most important one is standing pat in 2020 or one year deals. Otherwise we'll be hearing about how 2025 was the real target.

Cap space means flexibility. Might have been much easier for us to do with massive cap space and low-cost assets. If that space and an asset get us a star player, you don't stand pat. You seize the moment.
But this is why I don't like these "here takeover now" scenarios.

I wouldn't have signed the bums so I wouldn't have to look to trade them.

Wonderfully easy to say in hindsight, but when Gordan Hayward won't even talk to you (because you're not Pat Riley) and you've just gone 30-11 to end the season behind those guys, you might think differently...


My god, if we had signed Gordan Hayward.....hoo boy. Thirty million for Hayward...that's the new NBA. Don't need none of that.

Amazing that Dion had the half year of his life, and effectively buried a franchise ripe to be exploited. Timing is everything.
Exactly my point. Riley would be skewered on this board has he signed Hayward and a similar result occurred. Conversely, had Waiters continued his strong play, Riley would look like a genius.

It's just silly to so blatantly toss away all the amazing things he's done for this franchise simply because Wade got old.

Of all the times we've seen ups and downs with this franchise under Riley (and I've seen them all) and all the times people have wanted to replace him (trust me, this thread isn't the first one) no one has EVER come up with...

Wait for it...

A SUITABLE REPLACEMENT!

You guys are so quick to dump the best thing to ever happen to this franchise, but you have no post Riley plan. Trust me, you're going to miss him when he's gone...
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Re: Pat Riley 

Post#57 » by DayofMourning » Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:18 pm

BBallFreak wrote:
DayofMourning wrote:
BBallFreak wrote:Cap space means flexibility. Might have been much easier for us to do with massive cap space and low-cost assets. If that space and an asset get us a star player, you don't stand pat. You seize the moment.

Wonderfully easy to say in hindsight, but when Gordan Hayward won't even talk to you (because you're not Pat Riley) and you've just gone 30-11 to end the season behind those guys, you might think differently...


My god, if we had signed Gordan Hayward.....hoo boy. Thirty million for Hayward...that's the new NBA. Don't need none of that.

Amazing that Dion had the half year of his life, and effectively buried a franchise ripe to be exploited. Timing is everything.
Exactly my point. Riley would be skewered on this board has he signed Hayward and a similar result occurred. Conversely, had Waiters continued his strong play, Riley would look like a genius.

It's just silly to so blatantly toss away all the amazing things he's done for this franchise simply because Wade got old.

Of all the times we've seen ups and downs with this franchise under Riley (and I've seen them all) and all the times people have wanted to replace him (trust me, this thread isn't the first one) no one has EVER come up with...

Wait for it...

A SUITABLE REPLACEMENT!

You guys are so quick to dump the best thing to ever happen to this franchise, but you have no post Riley plan. Trust me, you're going to miss him when he's gone...


I thought we had agreed on Sam Hinkie already.... :crazy:
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Re: Pat Riley 

Post#58 » by Mos_Heat » Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:17 pm

Not terrible, but doesn't add value


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Re: Pat Riley 

Post#59 » by Hallstar » Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:27 am

Heat3 wrote:
Hallstar wrote:
BBallFreak wrote:Cap space means flexibility. Might have been much easier for us to do with massive cap space and low-cost assets. If that space and an asset get us a star player, you don't stand pat. You seize the moment.

Wonderfully easy to say in hindsight, but when Gordan Hayward won't even talk to you (because you're not Pat Riley) and you've just gone 30-11 to end the season behind those guys, you might think differently...

I said no at the time, this is not hindsight. I didn't want them on the one year deals to begin with because it would hinder the youth. They hustled in a contract year and still we didn't hear rumors of anyone else being interested. That should've been a sign. I've been pretty clear on my dislike for those two from the gate.

As for the standing pat, of course you go for it if you get a star, but I'm not trying to hear how no one else signed so we had to give Kidd Gilchrist or whoever 15 mil a year. That's just Dion 2.0


If I recall you wanted to max out Wade. Not sure what position we would have been in to sign those bums with a max Wade on the roster. And as much as I enjoyed his return, not re-signing him was the right move.

The worst thing that happened was Spo being Spo and finishing that season 30-11. :nonono:

Yep, my plan was to give Wade his money which would expire this year to coincide with Bosh so all the big money comes off the cap, we still have the "youth" and we attack 2019 FA. Crazy how that plan would've worked out.....That was the skeleton of my rebuild plan.

When you start going 5/6 years out with no goal in sight like we currently are, I can't predict that far.

It's not that I like hating on Riley or some foolishness....all I asked for when Wade left was a plan....a logical way out

All I've seen so far is that the goal seems to be scrape in to the playoffs if possible. Even without Bosh we're top 10 in payroll. That is not supposed to be acceptable.
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Re: Pat Riley 

Post#60 » by contract » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:54 am

BBallFreak wrote:
DayofMourning wrote:
BBallFreak wrote:Cap space means flexibility. Might have been much easier for us to do with massive cap space and low-cost assets. If that space and an asset get us a star player, you don't stand pat. You seize the moment.

Wonderfully easy to say in hindsight, but when Gordan Hayward won't even talk to you (because you're not Pat Riley) and you've just gone 30-11 to end the season behind those guys, you might think differently...


My god, if we had signed Gordan Hayward.....hoo boy. Thirty million for Hayward...that's the new NBA. Don't need none of that.

Amazing that Dion had the half year of his life, and effectively buried a franchise ripe to be exploited. Timing is everything.
Exactly my point. Riley would be skewered on this board has he signed Hayward and a similar result occurred. Conversely, had Waiters continued his strong play, Riley would look like a genius.

It's just silly to so blatantly toss away all the amazing things he's done for this franchise simply because Wade got old.

Of all the times we've seen ups and downs with this franchise under Riley (and I've seen them all) and all the times people have wanted to replace him (trust me, this thread isn't the first one) no one has EVER come up with...

Wait for it...

A SUITABLE REPLACEMENT!

You guys are so quick to dump the best thing to ever happen to this franchise, but you have no post Riley plan. Trust me, you're going to miss him when he's gone...

That's not our job. There are people to make those decisions.
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