2019 Heat Offseason thread 4.0- Yimmy and the Kids!

[Kobewade11]

Riley’s career is on life support right now. Teams know he’s desperate to make a move. He’s got no hand.

On life support? He just acquired a top 15 player in the league while having no cap space

[Heat3]

CP3 isn’t giving up his money and he won’t be stuck in OKC. He’ll be just as movable as Whiteside was in his final year to some team that wants to get out of long term contracts.

[Kobewade11]

Read on Twitter

[Rapaz]

Others to wear #22 for Miami:

Brian Shaw 1992
John Salley 1993-1995
Voshon Lenard 1996
Matt Fish 1997
Antonio Lang 1998
Sean Marks 2002-2003
John Wallace 2004
Robert Hite 2007
James Jones 2009-2014
Danny Granger 2015
Derrick Williams 2017
Luke Babbitt 2018

[dean456]

CP3 isn’t giving up his money and he won’t be stuck in OKC. He’ll be just as movable as Whiteside was in his final year to some team that wants to get out of long term contracts.

Are you saying he will be tradable when he's an expiring contract or that he is as tradable as Whiteside's expiring deal this off season? Because the first means he will be stuck in OKC the next two season's and the second just isn't true. We found it hard enough to trade Whiteside's 27mil expiring contract, trading one year of 27mil for a 30yo is much different to 120+mil over 3 years of a 34yo player regardless of who it is.

[Mars]

Riley’s career is on life support right now. Teams know he’s desperate to make a move. He’s got no hand.

Watch on YouTube

[DayofMourning]

I was interested in seeing the increase in wins Paul generated for each team he joined.

The season before he joined the OKC Hornets they won 18 games. His first year with the team they won 38 games. That's a two fold increase in wins! In his 3rd year they won 56 games. That's their franchise record for a single season.

The season before he joined the Clippers they won 32 games. His first year they won 40 (in 66 games). That's a 50% increase in winning percentage! The next three seasons they won 56-57 games. Those are the most wins ever in the franchise's history for single seasons.

The season before he joined the Rockets they won 55 games. His first year they won 65 games. An increase of ~20%! No Rockets club has ever won more games in a year.

So, as much of a cancer and overpaid, over the hill player he is, he has always been a winner. Something that can't be said for a lot of superstars out there.

[HeatingUp3]

Omg. CP and Kevin Love? Whats the deal with us interesting in those old big contract dudes??? Just wait! Every deadline a star player wants out or something. Look PP and Russ traded within a week. Just wait. The right deal will pop

Kevin Love the same age as Russ and Butler lol

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

Lol i know breh. He just playing like a 35 years old. Not to mention the man is injury prone and even if healthy Love won't put us over the top. I would have taking him if he was cheaper. But no way on that 120 mil.

[DayofMourning]

It's also likely that Paul will retire in the top ten all time in win shares. He's currently 19th, but only 18 away from a top ten spot.

He's also currently in 4th place all time in win shares per 48 minutes! He's basically neck and neck with Jordan, Chamberlain, and the Admiral.

He's also top five in BPM, top 11 in VORP, and is number one all time in offensive rating.

Basically, he's better than Westbrook.

[Heat3]

CP3 isn’t giving up his money and he won’t be stuck in OKC. He’ll be just as movable as Whiteside was in his final year to some team that wants to get out of long term contracts.

Are you saying he will be tradable when he's an expiring contract or that he is as tradable as Whiteside's expiring deal this off season? Because the first means he will be stuck in OKC the next two season's and the second just isn't true. We found it hard enough to trade Whiteside's 27mil expiring contract, trading one year of 27mil for a 30yo is much different to 120+mil over 3 years of a 34yo player regardless of who it is.

Well he won't be stuck for 3 years is what I meant There will be plenty of teams in 2 years, that have bad long term contracts either signed this year or next off season that they regret. They'll be happy to get out if them if it meant biting the bullet on CP3 for one season then having cap space after. It's still possible he gets moved this off season if OKC gives up picks.

[Bishop45]

I was interested in seeing the increase in wins Paul generated for each team he joined.

The season before he joined the OKC Hornets they won 18 games. His first year with the team they won 38 games. That's a two fold increase in wins! In his 3rd year they won 56 games. That's their franchise record for a single season.

The season before he joined the Clippers they won 32 games. His first year they won 40 (in 66 games). That's a 50% increase in winning percentage! The next three seasons they won 56-57 games. Those are the most wins ever in the franchise's history for single seasons.

The season before he joined the Rockets they won 55 games. His first year they won 65 games. An increase of ~20%! No Rockets club has ever won more games in a year.

So, as much of a cancer and overpaid, over the hill player he is, he has always been a winner. Something that can't be said for a lot of superstars out there.

This is fair too, besides him being old, negative media coverage is the main reason he's seen as a lesser player than guys like Russ.

But understandable, Paul seems like an annoying personality most of the time

[DayofMourning]

I was interested in seeing the increase in wins Paul generated for each team he joined.

The season before he joined the OKC Hornets they won 18 games. His first year with the team they won 38 games. That's a two fold increase in wins! In his 3rd year they won 56 games. That's their franchise record for a single season.

The season before he joined the Clippers they won 32 games. His first year they won 40 (in 66 games). That's a 50% increase in winning percentage! The next three seasons they won 56-57 games. Those are the most wins ever in the franchise's history for single seasons.

The season before he joined the Rockets they won 55 games. His first year they won 65 games. An increase of ~20%! No Rockets club has ever won more games in a year.

So, as much of a cancer and overpaid, over the hill player he is, he has always been a winner. Something that can't be said for a lot of superstars out there.

This is fair too, besides him being old, negative media coverage is the main reason he's seen as a lesser player than guys like Russ.

But understandable, Paul seems like an annoying personality most of the time

I could realistically see him playing better through the end of his contract than Russ.

Russ is the exciting, run through a brick wall with all the athleticism that has wowed people for years. CP is not that at all, and has flopped his way into the bad graces of many a fan. However, I thought it fitting to focus on what he is exceptional at, and that's winning. His stats stand with anybody's, but he's overlooked because despite the wins he's generated, he's never been on a great team. When he finally teamed up with another star (Harden), he got injured and lost his chance at the Finals.

So for me, I'd hitch my wagon to CP3 if I wanted to win. He may get injured and his game might regress some, but he's the greatest point of his generation, and an all time winner based on any metric.

[MartyConlonJr]

I was interested in seeing the increase in wins Paul generated for each team he joined.

The season before he joined the OKC Hornets they won 18 games. His first year with the team they won 38 games. That's a two fold increase in wins! In his 3rd year they won 56 games. That's their franchise record for a single season.

The season before he joined the Clippers they won 32 games. His first year they won 40 (in 66 games). That's a 50% increase in winning percentage! The next three seasons they won 56-57 games. Those are the most wins ever in the franchise's history for single seasons.

The season before he joined the Rockets they won 55 games. His first year they won 65 games. An increase of ~20%! No Rockets club has ever won more games in a year.

So, as much of a cancer and overpaid, over the hill player he is, he has always been a winner. Something that can't be said for a lot of superstars out there.

This is all well and good but obviously a flawed argument, as it wasn't 34 year old Chris doing any of this. The Knicks and Nuggets had most of their best seasons this century with Melo and I don't want him either.

That being said Houston was 39-19 In the games Paul played last season (.672) and 14-10 without (.583). So he clearly still helps winning even with the decline. Their record when he plays was 4th in the league (behind GSW, TOR, MIL) and 13th when he doesn't.

I think there is like a 20% chance Chris Paul has a slow decline like a Steve Nash or Jason Kidd where they are so cerebral that they are a positive contributor into late 30's but EVEN if it is true, it is just too much cap.

More likely is that he can't stay healthy, as has probably been the story of his career in most seasons where his body didn't hold up come playoffs.

Despite having a winning disposition and game, he is falling off, too expensive (having wide reaching implications to our team structure going forward) and too injury prone.

[Bishop45]

I was interested in seeing the increase in wins Paul generated for each team he joined.

The season before he joined the OKC Hornets they won 18 games. His first year with the team they won 38 games. That's a two fold increase in wins! In his 3rd year they won 56 games. That's their franchise record for a single season.

The season before he joined the Clippers they won 32 games. His first year they won 40 (in 66 games). That's a 50% increase in winning percentage! The next three seasons they won 56-57 games. Those are the most wins ever in the franchise's history for single seasons.

The season before he joined the Rockets they won 55 games. His first year they won 65 games. An increase of ~20%! No Rockets club has ever won more games in a year.

So, as much of a cancer and overpaid, over the hill player he is, he has always been a winner. Something that can't be said for a lot of superstars out there.

This is fair too, besides him being old, negative media coverage is the main reason he's seen as a lesser player than guys like Russ.

But understandable, Paul seems like an annoying personality most of the time

I could realistically see him playing better through the end of his contract than Russ.

Russ is the exciting, run through a brick wall with all the athleticism that has wowed people for years. CP is not that at all, and has flopped his way into the bad graces of many a fan. However, I thought it fitting to focus on what he is exceptional at, and that's winning. His stats stand with anybody's, but he's overlooked because despite the wins he's generated, he's never been on a great team. When he finally teamed up with another star (Harden), he got injured and lost his chance at the Finals.

So for me, I'd hitch my wagon to CP3 if I wanted to win. He may get injured and his game might regress some, but he's the greatest point of his generation, and an all time winner based on any metric.

At minimal cost I'm in. Scared, but in

[dean456]

CP3 isn’t giving up his money and he won’t be stuck in OKC. He’ll be just as movable as Whiteside was in his final year to some team that wants to get out of long term contracts.

Are you saying he will be tradable when he's an expiring contract or that he is as tradable as Whiteside's expiring deal this off season? Because the first means he will be stuck in OKC the next two season's and the second just isn't true. We found it hard enough to trade Whiteside's 27mil expiring contract, trading one year of 27mil for a 30yo is much different to 120+mil over 3 years of a 34yo player regardless of who it is.

Well he won't be stuck for 3 years is what I meant There will be plenty of teams in 2 years, that have bad long term contracts either signed this year or next off season that they regret. They'll be happy to get out if them if it meant biting the bullet on CP3 for one season then having cap space after. It's still possible he gets moved this off season if OKC gives up picks.

I just don't see this being in the best interest of Paul or OKC. CP3 losing the best 66% of whats left of his career to potentially win a ring or get to the finals and still be a main contributor. Then on the OKC side of things they are trying to rebuild and want to maximize their picks so unless they just bench Chris Paul the next two years he will win them games and make those FRP's worse for them. I think the only way this benefits both teams is to trade him with picks this offseason.

Miami is likely the best available trade destination for Paul from an OKC perspective because we would be happy taking back our own picks were other teams wouldn't have as much interest in our 2023 pick because its lottery protected. So trading him to us would do the least amount of damage to their collection of picks compared to any other team asking for the same amount.

[DayofMourning]

This is all well and good but obviously a flawed argument, as it wasn't 34 year old Chris doing any of this. The Knicks and Nuggets had most of their best seasons this century with Melo and I don't want him either.

That being said Houston was 39-19 In the games Paul played last season (.672) and 14-10 without (.583). So he clearly still helps winning even with the decline. Their record when he plays was 4th in the league (behind GSW, TOR, MIL) and 13th when he doesn't.

I think there is like a 20% chance Chris Paul has a slow decline like a Steve Nash or Jason Kidd where they are so cerebral that they are a positive contributor into late 30's but EVEN if it is true, it is just too much cap.

More likely is that he can't stay healthy, as has probably been the story of his career in most seasons where his body didn't hold up come playoffs.

Despite having a winning disposition and game, he is falling off, too expensive (having wide reaching implications to our team structure going forward) and too injury prone.

I'm not advocating that anybody at 34 is going to be as good as they have over their career years. However, many were lusting for Westbrook, but he is nowhere near the winner Paul is. He was also a four year exorbitant contract, while Paul is three years. Now, based on their playing styles, it is very likely that Paul could finish his contract stronger than Westbrook could finish his.

All in all, I feel that Paul is getting grossly undervalued in respect to Westbrook. Truth be told, I'd love to see how our guys would benefit from his on court leadership.

[puppa bear]

I was interested in seeing the increase in wins Paul generated for each team he joined.

The season before he joined the OKC Hornets they won 18 games. His first year with the team they won 38 games. That's a two fold increase in wins! In his 3rd year they won 56 games. That's their franchise record for a single season.

The season before he joined the Clippers they won 32 games. His first year they won 40 (in 66 games). That's a 50% increase in winning percentage! The next three seasons they won 56-57 games. Those are the most wins ever in the franchise's history for single seasons.

The season before he joined the Rockets they won 55 games. His first year they won 65 games. An increase of ~20%! No Rockets club has ever won more games in a year.

So, as much of a cancer and overpaid, over the hill player he is, he has always been a winner. Something that can't be said for a lot of superstars out there.

This is fair too, besides him being old, negative media coverage is the main reason he's seen as a lesser player than guys like Russ.

But understandable, Paul seems like an annoying personality most of the time

I could realistically see him playing better through the end of his contract than Russ.

Russ is the exciting, run through a brick wall with all the athleticism that has wowed people for years. CP is not that at all, and has flopped his way into the bad graces of many a fan. However, I thought it fitting to focus on what he is exceptional at, and that's winning. His stats stand with anybody's, but he's overlooked because despite the wins he's generated, he's never been on a great team. When he finally teamed up with another star (Harden), he got injured and lost his chance at the Finals.

So for me, I'd hitch my wagon to CP3 if I wanted to win. He may get injured and his game might regress some, but he's the greatest point of his generation, and an all time winner based on any metric.

CPs game will age better than Russ’ and his decline will be a gradual slope rather than a steep drop off. That deal is still horrendous, too-5 worst deals in the league at this point for me. If they want to move him without giving up assets then they best be taking on crap deals and giving us some breathing space against the hard cap. For them I feel moving an unimpressed CP and getting under the cap should be enough of a win to give up our picks. Then the Westbrook deal becomes Brodie for getting under the tax/clearing years at the back end/unprotecting one of the future picks/swapping teams & years of 2 of the future picks/2 swaps. That’s actually a win when it’s put that way, and possibly a bigger win than the package they got, but the optics of trading away two picks is what will likely stop it happening.

CP with Bam to throw assists to would be nice, and as much as he’s being trashed here a CP-Love PnP would offer a great contrast to the CP-Bam PnR. Jimmy would still be he clear number one, and the closer. Depth could become and issue, but I would expect that the deals would be structured to get us breathing space to sign enough minimum deals to get through.

If we got out of this offseason with our 2021 pick back, Jimmy, CP, Love, Whiteside gone and all it cost was J-Rich & Winslow then I think we’d all be happy at that end result! Jimmy/CP/Love/Bam/Herro/KZ/Nunn and all our future picks in tact, is a pretty decent starting point for a four year window of contention.

[DayofMourning]

At minimal cost I'm in. Scared, but in

Yeah. I'd worry about his body breaking down on him, but he does play the game with less stress than the break neck Westbrook. I think their respective values to a team are not reflective of what the majority of the fanbase perceives.

[Bishop45]

Finding stars is hard, but chasing the perfect contract is close to impossible

Sometimes you have to just pick the best player possible and hope for the best. Patience is good when you don't have anything to lose

[DayofMourning]

CPs game will age better than Russ’ and his decline will be a gradual slope rather than a steep drop off. That deal is still horrendous, too-5 worst deals in the league at this point for me. If they want to move him without giving up assets then they best be taking on crap deals and giving us some breathing space against the hard cap. For them I feel moving an unimpressed CP and getting under the cap should be enough of a win to give up our picks. Then the Westbrook deal becomes Brodie for getting under the tax/clearing years at the back end/unprotecting one of the future picks/swapping teams & years of 2 of the future picks/2 swaps. That’s actually a win when it’s put that way, and possibly a bigger win than the package they got, but the optics of trading away two picks is what will likely stop it happening.

CP with Bam to throw assists to would be nice, and as much as he’s being trashed here a CP-Love PnP would offer a great contrast to the CP-Bam PnR. Jimmy would still be he clear number one, and the closer. Depth could become and issue, but I would expect that the deals would be structured to get us breathing space to sign enough minimum deals to get through.

If we got out of this offseason with our 2021 pick back, Jimmy, CP, Love, Whiteside gone and all it cost was J-Rich & Winslow then I think we’d all be happy at that end result! Jimmy/CP/Love/Bam/Herro/KZ/Nunn and all our future picks in tact, is a pretty decent starting point for a four year window of contention.

Some have said that our picks are too valuable to return. I don't see that at all. At one point, the 2021 pick was considered one of the greatest assets in the league. Pat had to go and **** that up by getting Butler (lmao tbh at other fanbases for that one). Now that pick will follow Butler's 2nd season here, and the respective growth of all our youth. That pick is now late teens, early twenties. Not so spicy anymore.

As for Love, I'd have to pass. I think I'd rather roll with our young guys growth, Jizzy B, and possibly Paul. That's one too many big contracts attached to injury risk for my liking.