2019 Heat Offseason thread 4.0- Yimmy and the Kids!

[CrossOver]

For the record, that's me that posted that stuff on twitter from the LeBatard local hour. The replay of it should be up soon for you guys to relisten but I tried to paraphrase what I heard as concisely as possible. I took the young guys as Herro, Bam and Winslow. Guess you can probably consider DJJ in there too since we saw that stuff on the Dallas debacle when his name was involved.

It's obvious that things can shift and they cave to adding one of those guys but it definitely sounded from what Mike Ryan relayed that they are only open to a Westbrook move that doesn't involve giving up those guys as of this moment. They only want it to be cap space related as of now.

[Kobewade11]

Read on Twitter

good news.

Other than Bam who truly is a young asset?

Herro the Summer League Hall of Famer?
Winslow the slow developing cool hairdo vanilla like player?
Mateen or any other scrub?

Bam is the only guy with high ceiling...keeping in mind that because of his short arms, Herro cannot reach the ceiling even if he wanted to

I think the only we reason we say Bam is the only asset with a high ceiling is because he's the only young big on the roster. Statistically speaking there's no reason he's elevated above Winslow or even Herro for that matter. If Winslow hasn't proven to be worthy of a top 12-13 pick then what the hell has Bam done besides have a cool nickname?

[CaliHeat]

Young assets? Other than Bam none of them are big time assets

Big assests:
Winslow 22
Herro 19
KZ Okpala 20

Assessts:
Derek Jones jr. 22
Duncan Robinson 25
Kendrick Nunn 22

KZ hasn’t played a single game yet!
Herro is only good in Summer League, hasn’t proven ****.
Winslow has yet to show he’s worthy of being a top 12 pick. J-Rich has developed more than Winslow.

Jrich was barely better than Winslow by the end of the year and hes what almost 3 years older than Winslow.

You cant prove anything if you havent been given a chance. Herro is ballin. If he improves his handles hes gonna be very good.

Kz Okpala is gonna be good. 20 years old, 6'9 and still growing with 7'2 wing span, that can shoot and create his own shot. I dont need to see him play to know hes gonna be a big time assesst.

[AirP.]

Read on Twitter

good news.

Other than Bam who truly is a young asset?

Herro the Summer League Hall of Famer?
Winslow the slow developing cool hairdo vanilla like player?
Mateen or any other scrub?

Bam is the only guy with high ceiling...keeping in mind that because of his short arms, Herro cannot reach the ceiling even if he wanted to

Westbrook has only expressed interest going to Miami at this point, OKC isn't going to send him where he doesn't want to go because of what he's meant to the franchise. Miami is really only competing with itself, all the other teams more than likely OKC is negotiating with other teams for leverage. If Miami has to give up a young asset, don't let it be Bam, Winslow, Herro or KZ. Miami still needs rotational depth. In reality, whoever trades for Westbrook is actually helping OKC out of that contract which is horrible if you're not trying to win a championship(they're retooling which will take a few years).

[twix2500]

Just like the Butler deal. This is a negotiation. There is not one deal on the table for either team. When there is one deal, then there will be a deal, lol. It is like the negotiation with Minny and Miami. For some reason people think Miami only offer was Olynyk, Richardson and the FRP. People do not negotiate for weeks with one offer, that is just retarted. Heat initially kept Richardson out of the deal, and Minny kept asking for him. Miami eventuallly decided to add him to the deal then Minny ask for Bam and Winslow and that was the final straw for the Heat to continue negotiating. That is how negotiations go. When I buy a car, I do not take the sticker price. I have a price in my head that I will be willing to pay for the car and even then I try to low ball that. If I willing to pay whatever for the car and want the car, there is no negotiation, im just buying the car.

Miami is trying to offer the least amount as possible and Thunder are trying to get back as much as possible. They have been talking for days now, so I am sure tons of different scenarios have been talked about and at this point hasnt been agreed on. Miami may eventually move up or/and Thunder may eventually move down on their request. We dont know, but I am dam sure not only one offer and not even less than 10 different offers been presented.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Going with Zach Lowe's narrative that OKC should be paying us to take on Westbrook. I'm actually in agreement with this. I think we could facilitate getting OKC well under the tax and out of Westbrook's deal and basically give them a chance at a reset. Anything beyond that i'm glad we are playing hard ball with this. I know the fanbase is crazy hyped about adding Westbrook but let's do it on our terms and not overpay if we don't have too. We really don't have too. I'm ready to roll into the season with what we have. I see nothing wrong with the combination of Winslow and Dragic over Westbrook. Sure Westbrook is the flashy name but I think Winslow/Dragic would give us plenty.

[CrossOver]

Going with Zach Lowe's narrative that OKC should be paying us to take on Westbrook. I'm actually in agreement with this. I think we could facilitate getting OKC well under the tax and out of Westbrook's deal and basically give them a chance at a reset. Anything beyond that i'm glad we are playing hard ball with this. I know the fanbase is crazy hyped about adding Westbrook but let's do it on our terms and not overpay if we don't have too. We really don't have too. I'm ready to roll into the season with what we have. I see nothing wrong with the combination of Winslow and Dragic over Westbrook.

Personally, I think if Riley still had full reigns of the franchise he would have pulled the trigger with at least one or more of the young guys to get Westbrook. But we know now that it's a collective decision between him, Spo, Nick, Battier and Micky and unless all are in agreement then they won't move on with it. Now it's just a waiting game on who moves off their position first.

[MettaWorldPanda]

If some team is willing to give up picks and quality young talent for that massive deal then so be it. I just need closure on this like in the next few hours.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Going with Zach Lowe's narrative that OKC should be paying us to take on Westbrook. I'm actually in agreement with this. I think we could facilitate getting OKC well under the tax and out of Westbrook's deal and basically give them a chance at a reset. Anything beyond that i'm glad we are playing hard ball with this. I know the fanbase is crazy hyped about adding Westbrook but let's do it on our terms and not overpay if we don't have too. We really don't have too. I'm ready to roll into the season with what we have. I see nothing wrong with the combination of Winslow and Dragic over Westbrook.

Personally, I think if Riley still had full reigns of the franchise he would have pulled the trigger with at least one or more of the young guys to get Westbrook. But we know now that it's a collective decision between him, Spo, Nick, Battier and Micky and unless all are in agreement then they won't move on with it. Now it's just a waiting game on who moves off their position first.

Very true. Just followed you on twitter btw. Thanks for the latest update from the show this morning.

[greg4012]

For the people opposed to Westbrook and rather wait for 2020 or 2021 FA. Which FA are you guys targetting. Only ones worth going after are:

Anthony Davis-Dont see him leaving.
Bradley Beal- if he signs an extension you're screwed and he's two years away.
Bron- too old
Paul George- not leaving LA.
DeRozan- No thank you
Blake Griffin- injury prone and will be 32
Giannis- possible but I dont see him turning down that max and if he does he will most likely follow Masai
McCollum & Gobert are possibilites but don't make you a threat for the finals.

So who are we waiting for again?

Trade market?

Anyone worth it you will have to give up A LOT for.

We need our guns loaded for pre agency. First step was butler, now at some stage a big star- more effective than Russ, will pop up.

Could be anyone, we need the ability to be bold in that moment

I don't hate this approach, and if the price tag for Russ is too much (more than 1 young guy is my limit) then I think we need to stick to this approach. But, this approach is just as risky as taking on Russ. Yes, it's possible some star will be disgruntled and call for trade, but when that happens, the likelihood is:

1) they won't necessarily be targeting Miami
2) they won't end up choosing Miami
3) they will cost an arm and a leg to get to Miami (see comparable price standard set by Paul George trade) thus actually decimating our youth
4) they will not be as good of a player as Westbrook (there are only so many of those)

The Westbrook situation is a really unique one where OKC feels like they owe the world to him and just got a king's ransom for Paul George thus, theoretically, being willing to give him up for cheap. That is far from the norm for when there's a disgruntled star on the market. Team's will normally be seeking an arm and a leg to ship away a star, disgruntled or not.

One positive about the Westbrook angle that I like (again, at the right price) is that it establishes a clear trajectory for the Heat--a 4 year window to go hard to compete during Westbrook and Butler's contracts. Assuming we keep 2-3 of the young guys, it allows them to develop in a competitive environment, play expanding complementary roles and hopefully grow as players. Compete to the best extent possible for 4 years then have our young guys entering their prime and have a **** of cap space to work with in 2023.

[twix2500]

good news.

Other than Bam who truly is a young asset?

Herro the Summer League Hall of Famer?
Winslow the slow developing cool hairdo vanilla like player?
Mateen or any other scrub?

Bam is the only guy with high ceiling...keeping in mind that because of his short arms, Herro cannot reach the ceiling even if he wanted to

I think the only we reason we say Bam is the only asset with a high ceiling is because he's the only young big on the roster. Statistically speaking there's no reason he's elevated above Winslow or even Herro for that matter. If Winslow hasn't proven to be worthy of a top 12-13 pick then what the hell has Bam done besides have a cool nickname?

Bam has progressed a whole lot faster than WInslow and they are both about equal right now. Herro has played some summer league games, and KZ has only done suicides. Unfair to make Bam or Winslow equal to two players who hasnt even played at the NBA level as of yet. I do not think anyone outside of Jimmy is untouchable.

But I am confused what is everyone meaning of "ASSET"? I see some people saying asset in terms of the player they want to keep. And I see some people say asset meaning a trade chip. And then i see some people say it to just mean they like that person. Iv been staying out of the "Asset" talk because I think most of you are saying different things and making each other mad because the reader is interpreting it as something else. idk....

[CrossOver]

For the record, that's me that posted that stuff on twitter from the LeBatard local hour. The replay of it should be up soon for you guys to relisten but I tried to paraphrase what I heard as concisely as possible. I took the young guys as Herro, Bam and Winslow. Guess you can probably consider DJJ in there too since we saw that stuff on the Dallas debacle when his name was involved.

It's obvious that things can shift and they cave to adding one of those guys but it definitely sounded from what Mike Ryan relayed that they are only open to a Westbrook move that doesn't involve giving up those guys as of this moment. They only want it to be cap space related as of now.

Here is link to listen to the local hour.

http://www.espn.com/espnradio/podcast/archive?id=9941853

[ZoStrong]

This guy doesn’t even wear underwear??? smh

[AirP.]

Just like the Butler deal. This is a negotiation. There is not one deal on the table for either team. When there is one deal, then there will be a deal, lol. It is like the negotiation with Minny and Miami. For some reason people think Miami only offer was Olynyk, Richardson and the FRP. People do not negotiate for weeks with one offer, that is just retarted. Heat initially kept Richardson out of the deal, and Minny kept asking for him. Miami eventuallly decided to add him to the deal then Minny ask for Bam and Winslow and that was the final straw for the Heat to continue negotiating. That is how negotiations go. When I buy a car, I do not take the sticker price. I have a price in my head that I will be willing to pay for the car and even then I try to low ball that. If I willing to pay whatever for the car and want the car, there is no negotiation, im just buying the car.

Miami is trying to offer the least amount as possible and Thunder are trying to get back as much as possible. They have been talking for days now, so I am sure tons of different scenarios have been talked about and at this point hasnt been agreed on. Miami may eventually move up or/and Thunder may eventually move down on their request. We dont know, but I am dam sure not only one offer and not even less than 10 different offers been presented.

There are multiple trades that make sense between OKC and Miami, even more when there's a 3rd team involved. OKC doesn't need Dragic at PG, they have SGA and D.Schroder so they may be trying to get value from him by talking to Dallas as the 3rd team and then there's Cleveland who has JR Smith's contract(15.6 mil expiring but if cut by July 15th is only owed 3.9 mil) which would be of interest to OKC or even Miami. There are a lot of different scenarios.

I doubt Herro will be delt. With Miami hard capped they need to have as much wiggle room as possible, he can be offered anywhere between 80% to 120% of the rookie scale which is a little bit of wiggle room they may end up needing.

[DefenseWins]

It puts me at ease we haven't thrown the sink for Westbrook yet. We believe in Winslow, Bam, Herro it seems. We'd get Westbrook if it meant not giving up one or more of the youngins... it seems. Take our garbage contracts or no deal seems to be the consensus.

[contract]

Going with Zach Lowe's narrative that OKC should be paying us to take on Westbrook. I'm actually in agreement with this. I think we could facilitate getting OKC well under the tax and out of Westbrook's deal and basically give them a chance at a reset. Anything beyond that i'm glad we are playing hard ball with this. I know the fanbase is crazy hyped about adding Westbrook but let's do it on our terms and not overpay if we don't have too. We really don't have too. I'm ready to roll into the season with what we have. I see nothing wrong with the combination of Winslow and Dragic over Westbrook.

Personally, I think if Riley still had full reigns of the franchise he would have pulled the trigger with at least one or more of the young guys to get Westbrook. But we know now that it's a collective decision between him, Spo, Nick, Battier and Micky and unless all are in agreement then they won't move on with it. Now it's just a waiting game on who moves off their position first.

With Pat's ego, I seriously doubt that he would accept a reduced role. I don't know what the Heat are paying him, but he wouldn't have any trouble landing another job if he wanted one. If he's still here, he's in charge.

[dean456]

Young assets? Other than Bam none of them are big time assets

Big assests:
Winslow 22
Herro 19
KZ Okpala 20

Assessts:
Derek Jones jr. 22
Duncan Robinson 25
Kendrick Nunn 22

KZ hasn’t played a single game yet!
Herro is only good in Summer League, hasn’t proven ****.
Winslow has yet to show he’s worthy of being a top 12 pick. J-Rich has developed more than Winslow.

I get it with KZ but Herro and Winslow aren't assets now?

[islandHEAT]

LOL @ Pat not calling the shots.

[heater4life]

A complete salary dump no asset trade would be one of Riley’s best deals ever.

In that scenario I can definitely see Miami competing for a top seed in the East, and ultimately swinging assets for another player such as Beal.

Do it Riley!!!

[HEATVols865]

Big assests:
Winslow 22
Herro 19
KZ Okpala 20

Assessts:
Derek Jones jr. 22
Duncan Robinson 25
Kendrick Nunn 22

KZ hasn’t played a single game yet!
Herro is only good in Summer League, hasn’t proven ****.
Winslow has yet to show he’s worthy of being a top 12 pick. J-Rich has developed more than Winslow.

I get it with KZ but Herro and Winslow aren't assets now?

Not big assets.
Herro is a summer league legend...playing against 90% of guys who will never see the court in the NBA...yet y’all are crowning him as the next Ray Allen