Offseason thread vol. 4: Media Day, Camp, Preseason

eddieheatfan · Post #201 » by **eddieheatfan** » Mon Oct 7, 2019 2:16 am

rate_ wrote:Herro might have the most innate passing instincts on this team. He certainly might be the best P&R ball handler with his ability to time and throw accurate lobs.

white chocolate 2.0 8-)

Trapstar3 · Post #202 » by **Trapstar3** » Mon Oct 7, 2019 11:16 am

Don't know if it was mentioned before but I read this about JJ in a Miami Herald article that came out yesterday, apparently Johnson passed the condition test but failed to meet a certain weight goal set by Pat Riley.

"Bartelstein (Johnson's agent) emphasized that Johnson “did not fail the conditioning test. He passed the conditioning test with flying colors. He was a plus 4 in how he passed the test."

“The only issue is Pat feels very strongly that there is a certain weight level where J.J. performs best. The Heat are strong proponents of weight and body fat. They put a lot of time and effort into trying to figure out what is the absolute optimal level for players to perform.

“Even though he passed the conditioning test, and James feels like he’s in really good shape, Pat thinks there’s a level he wants him at, and he wasn’t there and he wanted him to focus on getting that taken care of, which is what James is doing.”

His agent declined to say what his weight goal is or how much he weights right now.

Here is the full article:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article235811512.html

twix2500 · Post #203 » by **twix2500** » Mon Oct 7, 2019 1:42 pm

Trapstar3 wrote:Don't know if it was mentioned before but I read this about JJ in a Miami Herald article that came out yesterday, apparently Johnson passed the condition test but failed to meet a certain weight goal set by Pat Riley.

"Bartelstein (Johnson's agent) emphasized that Johnson “did not fail the conditioning test. He passed the conditioning test with flying colors. He was a plus 4 in how he passed the test."

“The only issue is Pat feels very strongly that there is a certain weight level where J.J. performs best. The Heat are strong proponents of weight and body fat. They put a lot of time and effort into trying to figure out what is the absolute optimal level for players to perform.

“Even though he passed the conditioning test, and James feels like he’s in really good shape, Pat thinks there’s a level he wants him at, and he wasn’t there and he wanted him to focus on getting that taken care of, which is what James is doing.”

His agent declined to say what his weight goal is or how much he weights right now.

Here is the full article:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article235811512.html

Thanks trapstar, that is why after my express disappointment in JJ when initially hearing about it. But after a while I said let me hold my comments because it may not be what it appears.

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Trapstar3 · Post #204 » by **Trapstar3** » Mon Oct 7, 2019 2:04 pm

twix2500 wrote:Thanks trapstar, that is why after my express disappointment in JJ when initially hearing about it. But after a while I said let me hold my comments because it may not be what it appears.

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I mean wouldn't it be better to participate in training camp while also working on his body? I agree that he has to be punished for not meeting the requirements from Riley but still..
Hopefully this experience will help him achieve his goal and play better.

Kobewade11 · Post #205 » by **Kobewade11** » Mon Oct 7, 2019 2:51 pm

Both Dion and JJ were put on warning when the season ended. The time to work on your body was over the summer, you dont show up to camp and try to do it on company time. Not here.

MadD23 · Post #206 » by **MadD23** » Mon Oct 7, 2019 4:03 pm

kobewade11 wrote:Both Dion and JJ were put on warning when the season ended. The time to work on your body was over the summer, you dont show up to camp and try to do it on company time. Not here.

Exactly. Riley gave both players the standards of what was expected from them way ahead of time. This is the Heat way and I am glad Riley decided to tighten the screws. The Heat shouldn't be babysitting grown men, specially players who are getting paid millions to do their job. If JJ did it before he got paid, then why not continue to do it after?

Feel_the_Heat15 · Post #207 » by **Feel_the_Heat15** » Mon Oct 7, 2019 5:18 pm

I've thought for a while now that Devin Booker is a bad comparison for Herro. Herro is more perimeter oriented, weighs less and less athletic. I think Herro might have no real comparison. What 6-4 through 6-6 star player in NBA history could play-make like him and shoot like him? His ceiling might be Klay Thompson with better play-making ability.

Kobewade11 · Post #208 » by **Kobewade11** » Mon Oct 7, 2019 5:19 pm

jesus

Kobewade11 · Post #209 » by **Kobewade11** » Mon Oct 7, 2019 5:39 pm

“I don’t like it, but I’m at that stage of my career that I’m going to need it,” Dragic said of rest days, with the Heat set to open its five-game preseason Tuesday against the Spurs at AmericanAirlines Arena.

Sounds like they could be turning the keys of the second unit over to Dragic

Post #210 » by **BFRESH44** » Mon Oct 7, 2019 5:43 pm

It was just a scrimmage, but Goran looked every bit of that 33 year old.

Trapstar3 · Post #211 » by **Trapstar3** » Mon Oct 7, 2019 6:05 pm

BFRESH44 wrote:It was just a scrimmage, but Goran looked every bit of that 33 year old.

Didn't get to watch the scrimmage but Dragic would be great leading the 2nd unit.

Post #212 » by **Wiltside** » Mon Oct 7, 2019 6:27 pm

Honestly, think it’s time to let Gogi run that 2nd unit. Less pressure, less wear and tear on the body, keep him fresh and explosive. I liked the mini-Manu version we saw last year.

orphicwhip · Post #213 » by **orphicwhip** » Mon Oct 7, 2019 6:35 pm

goran is washed. that knee injury did him in. He's Beno Udrih status.

point justise era starts now

gom · Post #214 » by **gom** » Mon Oct 7, 2019 6:42 pm

LOL @ Goran is washed. Sure.

Feel_the_Heat15 · Post #215 » by **Feel_the_Heat15** » Mon Oct 7, 2019 6:46 pm

I told you guys Goran would show signs of decline this season. If Herro's a decent player this year, he should start over Dragic and possibly Waiters.

Feel_the_Heat15 · Post #216 » by **Feel_the_Heat15** » Mon Oct 7, 2019 6:50 pm

gom wrote:LOL @ Goran is washed. Sure.

Name more than 4 PGs who are 33 or older that aren't net negatives for their team. I'll give you 3 right now, George Hill, Kyle Lowry and Chris Paul. Guess what each of them have in common. They're 2 way players.

EDIT: George Hill actually declined last season so they're only 2 PGs, 33 or older who are positive contributors.

Kobewade11 · Post #217 » by **Kobewade11** » Mon Oct 7, 2019 7:06 pm

The height measurements are starting to leak for all of the teams

MartyConlonJr · Post #218 » by **MartyConlonJr** » Mon Oct 7, 2019 8:06 pm

Feel_the_Heat15 wrote:
gom wrote:LOL @ Goran is washed. Sure.

Name more than 4 PGs who are 33 or older that aren't net negatives for their team. I'll give you 3 right now, George Hill, Kyle Lowry and Chris Paul. Guess what each of them have in common. They're 2 way players.

EDIT: George Hill actually declined last season so they're only 2 PGs, 33 or older who are positive contributors.

Wow I went to check at basketball reference and it is almost misleading (though actually more telling) to ask this question, as there were hardly any PG's in the league that were 33 or older that played last season

Chris Paul
Shaun Livingston (just retired)
Devin Harris (un-signed)
Tony Parker (just retired)

This seasons 32 going on 33 are:
Kyle Lowry
Lou Williams
George Hill
Garrett Temple
Rajon Rondo

So Lou Williams (if you consider him a PG) is also a net positive I think (depending on your metric maybe - on/off, vorp or bpm?), so maybe half the 33+ players are net positive, there just are hardly any of them left.

Didn't realise that 33 was the age where it thins out. Sort of surprised me and also made me even more weary of a Chris Paul contract.

gom · Post #219 » by **gom** » Mon Oct 7, 2019 8:21 pm

Lowry just reupped for $33m for one season. Lowry's awesome but Dragic, especially when he's at his best, is a bargain at $19m. I also like the idea of a dispute for point guard minutes and warn everyone not to sleep on Dunn. Watch him! :-)

Feel_the_Heat15 · Post #220 » by **Feel_the_Heat15** » Mon Oct 7, 2019 8:43 pm

MartyConlonJr wrote:
Feel_the_Heat15 wrote:
gom wrote:LOL @ Goran is washed. Sure.

Name more than 4 PGs who are 33 or older that aren't net negatives for their team. I'll give you 3 right now, George Hill, Kyle Lowry and Chris Paul. Guess what each of them have in common. They're 2 way players.

EDIT: George Hill actually declined last season so they're only 2 PGs, 33 or older who are positive contributors.

Wow I went to check at basketball reference and it is almost misleading (though actually more telling) to ask this question, as there were hardly any PG's in the league that were 33 or older that played last season

Chris Paul
Shaun Livingston (just retired)
Devin Harris (un-signed)
Tony Parker (just retired)

This seasons 32 going on 33 are:
Kyle Lowry
Lou Williams
George Hill
Garrett Temple
Rajon Rondo

So Lou Williams (if you consider him a PG) is also a net positive I think (depending on your metric maybe - on/off, vorp or bpm?), so maybe half the 33+ players are net positive, there just are hardly any of them left.

Didn't realise that 33 was the age where it thins out. Sort of surprised me and also made me even more weary of a Chris Paul contract.

How is it misleading when you basically proved my point? They're very few PGs that are 33 or older because they can no longer play at an NBA level. Lou Williams doesn't count since he isn't a PG. Don't be surprised if Dragic barely plays anymore towards the end of the season.