twix2500 wrote: BenoUdrihFTL wrote:
twix2500 wrote:I wouldn't go after Gobert unless you have a dominant ball handling high level passing point guard. Players like Marion, Martin, Chandler and Jordan value fall off without dominate ball handling passing points. That is why bam's ball handling was and is important to be developed because the Heat do not have that point guard to feed him.
I am still intrigued by the 3 orlando magic bigs. Vucevic, Bamba and Isaac. Not confident they could be had by the Heat. Magic has become similar to the Pistons, a team that is very confusing on their goals or direction. I am specifically intrigue by Isaac next to Bam.
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UTA has had no such PG this season yet they're still the 8th ranked offense (+2.6 rORTG) and Gobert is still putting up insane individual #s:
The Jazz do have a dominate ball handler, he is their star player Donavon Mitchell. They went after a second ball handler in Mike Conley so they could get more out of Gobert offensively than just 15 pts and allow Mitchell focus more as a scorer as well. I am not saying Gobert is not a good player. I get why you would want him, but players like Rodman, Big Ben, Chandler, Jordan, Martin, Marion I had all the exact same arguments and the same defense as what you are giving me on Gobert. Jimmy is handling a lot of the distrubuting and ball handling, but he should not be. He needs another ball handler to make him more effective scorer. If Gobert was playing with Steve Nash or Chris Paul, he would average close to 20 pts a game and be a an elite duo like Blake and Paul. I get it you want all the bets talent as possible, but you do have to be careful and not lock yourself in big contracts that really do not match and not many glue peices in the league to make the unique situation work. We seen how elite talents like James and Wade struggle until they found the right role players and remodeling Bosh game. Gorbert and Butler or not on the level of James and Wade and their games do not complement well and then you add Bam into that mix and are we expecting Bam to change his game like Bosh did. Gobert, Gam and Butler would like be a similar tough mix like Butler, Wade and Rondo. One of the three will have to be versatile enough to adjust.
Ok but you specifically said Gobert needs "a dominant ball handling high level passing point guard"
Donovan is indeed a ball-dominant (and inefficient shoot-first) player but he's not a PG. If he was, he wouldn't be slotted at SG at 6'1" since day 1 and the Jazz wouldn't have taken on Conley's absurd contract to play point. They didn't add Conley to inflate Gobert's ppg, they needed what they thought was a positional upgrade in Conley to replace Rubio in the SL because Mitchell isn't remotely close to being the high-level passer you described
Also, Ingles is UTA's intended secondary ball-handler/facilitator whenever they've had a PG but he's ended up being the lead guy this season due to UTA's tumultuous PG situation
Already posted AST%s (showing MIA > UTA) so here's assist/turnover ratios (and APG) for perimeter ball-handlers:
Ingles 2.67 (5.2)
Conley 2.34 (4.3)
Mitchel 1.58 (4.2)
Jimmy 2.81 (6.1)
Nunn 2.08 (3.4)
Dragic 2.05 (5.1)
Again, our guys were doing it without the automatic bucket dimension that Gobert brings as a 70% true shooting rim-runner. We also have a playmaking big in Bam who's recorded more assists this season than anyone on the Jazz roster
Simply put, we have superior ball-handler/facilitator personnel than UTA, both in terms of volume and efficiency and even depth. We wouldn't be asking Gobert to score 20 ppg nor would we need it, that's not the point, the point of an elite rim-runner is to force defenses to account for his gravity inside thereby opening things up everywhere else. The assertion that Gobert is an offensive liability is unsubstantiated by both his individual #s and his team's performance (despite the mess at PG)