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Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. Iggy

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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. Iggy 

Post#1421 » by greg4012 » Thu Jul 9, 2020 3:02 pm

I love the Giannis pipe dream, but don't have any faith in it happening at all.

Also, for the sake of discussion--do you all feel it is a tough fit? Giannis is able to go supersonic because of the 4-out spacing around him. Him and Bam are actually very similar in how they are big men leveraged to dominate the pain through playmaking and spacing around them to gain advantage. Defensively it would be absurd and adding the MVP to our team is nothing but positive. But, I can't help but think that it's far from an ideal fit with Bam and Jimmy.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. Iggy 

Post#1422 » by DayofMourning » Thu Jul 9, 2020 3:18 pm

MartyCONLONNN wrote:All signs point to Dipo forcing his way out early and there seems to be some serious backchanneling going on as well. local indiana reporters are basically saying writing is on the wall for Miami. This is step 1 in Miami’s reported Dipo/Giannis chase.

I believe Dipo is asking for the max to leverage Indy into trading a player, making them less competitive which goes against his reported 2nd request of competing big. frankly, you cant show Vic that by trading away Turner or Brogdon. It ingeniously binds Indy into a situation where they can’t win Dipo over (that’s good agent work).

If we do accomplish the trade for him, watch for him to actually take less to be here knowing well no1 is gonna offer him the full max off 2 injury plagued seasons. it’ll likely be a shorter deal too & if the cap plays out in our favor could be enough space to get Miami in a room with Giannis with Riley, Butler, Bam, Dipo recruiting him to be the centerpiece of a potential dynasty. Pipe dream? of course. Likely the same projected space is no longer there due to the pandemic. but the orchestration of this plan seems to be in motion and funny that it’s so soon after Shams and the Athletic reported that Miami was going for a Dipo and Giannis pairing.


This reminds me of another thread I read concerning Paul George. He was talking about how Indy didn't want to bring in the best PF in the game because they didn't want to pay his salary. That's when he told his agent to get him out of Indy.

An Indy moderator chimed in saying that the Pacers were notorious for not spending on players. For the life of me, I can't recall the last time they brought in a big name.

So, it feels like there is quite a bit of truth to what you suggest. I doubt Indy will make an exception for the one year wonder, Oladipo.

What do we send them so they can get something in return? Our pick and what else?
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. Iggy 

Post#1423 » by MartyCONLONNN » Thu Jul 9, 2020 3:27 pm

greg4012 wrote:I love the Giannis pipe dream, but don't have any faith in it happening at all.

Also, for the sake of discussion--do you all feel it is a tough fit? Giannis is able to go supersonic because of the 4-out spacing around him. Him and Bam are actually very similar in how they are big men leveraged to dominate the pain through playmaking and spacing around them to gain advantage. Defensively it would be absurd and adding the MVP to our team is nothing but positive. But, I can't help but think that it's far from an ideal fit with Bam and Jimmy.


by no means would there be great spacing but in the crazy Vic/Giannis scenario, but consider how elite the defense would be. Your talking bout the 2 most versatile defenders in the league and another 2 all nba wing defenders. You would still have an elite shooter in Herro & Dbo at all times, likely having them both out there in different staggered rotations. It only really becomes a problem if they play a lot of ISO ball. but with a lot of off the ball action, DHO, cutting as well as generally getting good looks because there’s so much attention on the paint the offense will be fine. But no doubt it will take some engineering.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. Iggy 

Post#1424 » by greg4012 » Thu Jul 9, 2020 3:33 pm

MartyCONLONNN wrote:
greg4012 wrote:I love the Giannis pipe dream, but don't have any faith in it happening at all.

Also, for the sake of discussion--do you all feel it is a tough fit? Giannis is able to go supersonic because of the 4-out spacing around him. Him and Bam are actually very similar in how they are big men leveraged to dominate the pain through playmaking and spacing around them to gain advantage. Defensively it would be absurd and adding the MVP to our team is nothing but positive. But, I can't help but think that it's far from an ideal fit with Bam and Jimmy.


by no means would there be great spacing but in the crazy Vic/Giannis scenario, but consider how elite the defense would be. Your talking bout the 2 most versatile defenders in the league and another 2 all nba wing defenders. You would still have an elite shooter in Herro & Dbo at all times, likely having them both out there in different staggered rotations. It only really becomes a problem if they play a lot of ISO ball. but with a lot of off the ball action, DHO, cutting as well as generally getting good looks because there’s so much attention on the paint the offense will be fine. But no doubt it will take some engineering.


I fully get it. It's a net positive to add the MVP in any scenario. I'm just thinking of the intricacies of what helped Bam be so impactful this year, and what helps Giannis be so impactful (compare his NBA impact to his impact when he plays internationally for Greece) and it's clear that the synergy of spacing and operating as the main paint presence is huge for each of their offensive games. Just food for thought/discussion at this time.

If I'm trying to be objective, I see places where Giannis is a better fit.

I'm still FULLY on board with trying to get Giannis. I think the chances of it happening are minuscule.

But, I'm also very excited about the prospect of developing Bam as our version of Giannis and pursuing a top tier offensive perimeter player and a high quality complementary big (with versatility) to pair next to Bam--think Isaac or Christian Wood.
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Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. Iggy 

Post#1425 » by ThaFranchize84 » Thu Jul 9, 2020 3:35 pm

Giannis really seems to be a pipe dream but if we somehow were able to get Dipo by trade (say for Nunn, 2020 FRP, and salary filler or into our cap space) I feel like Jrue Holiday would be a great piece to go after. Jimmy apparently has wanted to play with him or Lowry for a while. I think we tried to get him at the deadline last year. If he opts out of his last yr and we offer him $28-$30 million a year he might take it. A lineup of Bam, Butler, DRob, Dipo and Holiday with a bench of Herro, KZ, etc is pretty scary. Defense would be crazy tough.


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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. Iggy 

Post#1426 » by DayofMourning » Thu Jul 9, 2020 3:36 pm

greg4012 wrote:I love the Giannis pipe dream, but don't have any faith in it happening at all.

Also, for the sake of discussion--do you all feel it is a tough fit? Giannis is able to go supersonic because of the 4-out spacing around him. Him and Bam are actually very similar in how they are big men leveraged to dominate the pain through playmaking and spacing around them to gain advantage. Defensively it would be absurd and adding the MVP to our team is nothing but positive. But, I can't help but think that it's far from an ideal fit with Bam and Jimmy.


Feels like a big man version of the Lebron/Wade redundancy.

In general, you take the best player you can get and figure it out.

Also, I love what Jimmy brings to the team, especially his intangible fit. However, he's going to be pushing 32 come Giannis time. He will be outside his prime and I wouldn't factor his presence in when trying to acquire a generational type player.

Still don't think we are getting Giannis. I think he stays a Buck. Regardless, you have to swing for the fences, and that's what Riley will do.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. Iggy 

Post#1427 » by MartyCONLONNN » Thu Jul 9, 2020 3:40 pm

DayofMourning wrote:
MartyCONLONNN wrote:All signs point to Dipo forcing his way out early and there seems to be some serious backchanneling going on as well. local indiana reporters are basically saying writing is on the wall for Miami. This is step 1 in Miami’s reported Dipo/Giannis chase.

I believe Dipo is asking for the max to leverage Indy into trading a player, making them less competitive which goes against his reported 2nd request of competing big. frankly, you cant show Vic that by trading away Turner or Brogdon. It ingeniously binds Indy into a situation where they can’t win Dipo over (that’s good agent work).

If we do accomplish the trade for him, watch for him to actually take less to be here knowing well no1 is gonna offer him the full max off 2 injury plagued seasons. it’ll likely be a shorter deal too & if the cap plays out in our favor could be enough space to get Miami in a room with Giannis with Riley, Butler, Bam, Dipo recruiting him to be the centerpiece of a potential dynasty. Pipe dream? of course. Likely the same projected space is no longer there due to the pandemic. but the orchestration of this plan seems to be in motion and funny that it’s so soon after Shams and the Athletic reported that Miami was going for a Dipo and Giannis pairing.


This reminds me of another thread I read concerning Paul George. He was talking about how Indy didn't want to bring in the best PF in the game because they didn't want to pay his salary. That's when he told his agent to get him out of Indy.

An Indy moderator chimed in saying that the Pacers were notorious for not spending on players. For the life of me, I can't recall the last time they brought in a big name.

So, it feels like there is quite a bit of truth to what you suggest. I doubt Indy will make an exception for the one year wonder, Oladipo.

What do we send them so they can get something in return? Our pick and what else?


Likely Nunn and an expiring servicable
role player like KO. definitely the pick. that’s not a bad return for a guy who really has this kind of leverage. unlike Kawai & George no1 is gonna throw big assets for a 1 year rental at Dipo when they know hes miami bound and isnt exactly a superstar ur sure u want to commit to. I could see Toronto getting in the mix for fear of what Miami may be cooking up
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. Iggy 

Post#1428 » by greg4012 » Thu Jul 9, 2020 3:51 pm

DayofMourning wrote:
greg4012 wrote:I love the Giannis pipe dream, but don't have any faith in it happening at all.

Also, for the sake of discussion--do you all feel it is a tough fit? Giannis is able to go supersonic because of the 4-out spacing around him. Him and Bam are actually very similar in how they are big men leveraged to dominate the pain through playmaking and spacing around them to gain advantage. Defensively it would be absurd and adding the MVP to our team is nothing but positive. But, I can't help but think that it's far from an ideal fit with Bam and Jimmy.


Feels like a big man version of the Lebron/Wade redundancy.

In general, you take the best player you can get and figure it out.

Also, I love what Jimmy brings to the team, especially his intangible fit. However, he's going to be pushing 32 come Giannis time. He will be outside his prime and I wouldn't factor his presence in when trying to acquire a generational type player.
g
Still don't think we are getting Giannis. I think he stays a Buck. Regardless, you have to swing for the fences, and that's what Riley will do.


Again, I'm not communicating that we shouldn't swing for the fences. If we can somehow get Giannis, I would be ELATED.

I'm trying to have a discussion about team construction. I find it interesting. Sometimes you have fits that are so synergistic that they are greater than the sum of their parts. Sometimes you have redundancies that diminish returns. In either scenario, adding the best player in the league is worth it.

If you're factoring in Jimmy being on the team and on the court, then to some extent, you need to factor in his presence on the court. And the reality is that Jimmy, Bam, and Giannis on the court together will take some real innovative solutions to work at a level that matches the individual talent of each of them on offense. If Jimmy isn't the ballhandler playmaking, then his spacing becomes more of an issue. He's getting a large chunk of our cap space through the 2023 season--he's to be accounted for until that time.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. Iggy 

Post#1429 » by twix2500 » Thu Jul 9, 2020 4:50 pm

If Giannis decides to play with the Heat they will make moves for that to happen. The Heat do not just have to have salary sitting and waiting. The team is now filled with easily moveable pieces.

IMO the next star player the heat will acquire will likely be through trade not a straight up signing.

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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. Iggy 

Post#1430 » by Shaq_Diesel » Thu Jul 9, 2020 5:35 pm

If I'm Riles and Elisberg.....

1. Compete in the bubble, win a series, best case ECF. Positive momentum heading into offseason.
2. Investigate a Beal trade - if it's a reasonable cost, trade for Beal.
3. If no Beal, keep team largely in tact. Pursue 1 year free agents (Millsap, Galinari, etc.) that can benefit from 1 year of culture while preserving our 2021 whale hunt.
4. Hope for team progress in 20-21 - 2nd round/ECF finish or better. Young guys continue to grow. Bam is dominant. Jimmy still a star.
5. Add Giannis
6. If no Giannis, add Oladipo
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. Iggy 

Post#1431 » by BenoUdrihFTL » Thu Jul 9, 2020 6:26 pm

greg4012 wrote:
DayofMourning wrote:
greg4012 wrote:I love the Giannis pipe dream, but don't have any faith in it happening at all.

Also, for the sake of discussion--do you all feel it is a tough fit? Giannis is able to go supersonic because of the 4-out spacing around him. Him and Bam are actually very similar in how they are big men leveraged to dominate the pain through playmaking and spacing around them to gain advantage. Defensively it would be absurd and adding the MVP to our team is nothing but positive. But, I can't help but think that it's far from an ideal fit with Bam and Jimmy.


Feels like a big man version of the Lebron/Wade redundancy.

In general, you take the best player you can get and figure it out.

Also, I love what Jimmy brings to the team, especially his intangible fit. However, he's going to be pushing 32 come Giannis time. He will be outside his prime and I wouldn't factor his presence in when trying to acquire a generational type player.
g
Still don't think we are getting Giannis. I think he stays a Buck. Regardless, you have to swing for the fences, and that's what Riley will do.


Again, I'm not communicating that we shouldn't swing for the fences. If we can somehow get Giannis, I would be ELATED.

I'm trying to have a discussion about team construction. I find it interesting. Sometimes you have fits that are so synergistic that they are greater than the sum of their parts. Sometimes you have redundancies that diminish returns. In either scenario, adding the best player in the league is worth it.

If you're factoring in Jimmy being on the team and on the court, then to some extent, you need to factor in his presence on the court. And the reality is that Jimmy, Bam, and Giannis on the court together will take some real innovative solutions to work at a level that matches the individual talent of each of them on offense. If Jimmy isn't the ballhandler playmaking, then his spacing becomes more of an issue. He's getting a large chunk of our cap space through the 2023 season--he's to be accounted for until that time.

I get the concerns about a Giannis/Bam pairing, but just like with my previous Gobert/Bam hypothetical I don't think the lineup is necessarily hamstrung by playing two non-3pt shooters at the 4/5 in itself. The key is who they're surrounded with and the problem I think arises here when you throw Oladipo into the equation; I'm convinced Gobert/Bam could work but that's with the premise of them being joined and balanced by both DRob and Herro for heavy primary-rotation minutes. Replace one of those offball gravitational floor-spacing weapons with an onball career 35% 3pt shooting Dipo and it gets a bit trickier

Ideally I'd take Giannis without Dipo (while using that Dipo space on more seamless role fits), but if it's the case that we'd first need Dipo in order to then get Giannis... well you have to do it imo and have faith that Spo can perhaps stagger lineups so that Dipo or Jimmy can run a lot with the second unit despite being official starters
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. Iggy 

Post#1432 » by al bondiga » Thu Jul 9, 2020 6:39 pm

I agree with you greg, Gianni's would be a very tough fit and I also agree with you day, if we get opportunity to get Giannis... dive in with no hesitation, whichever is the cost... bam is good, but putting him in a sentence with G, is very unfair to both
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. Iggy 

Post#1433 » by greg4012 » Thu Jul 9, 2020 7:02 pm

BenoUdrihFTL wrote:
greg4012 wrote:
DayofMourning wrote:
Feels like a big man version of the Lebron/Wade redundancy.

In general, you take the best player you can get and figure it out.

Also, I love what Jimmy brings to the team, especially his intangible fit. However, he's going to be pushing 32 come Giannis time. He will be outside his prime and I wouldn't factor his presence in when trying to acquire a generational type player.
g
Still don't think we are getting Giannis. I think he stays a Buck. Regardless, you have to swing for the fences, and that's what Riley will do.


Again, I'm not communicating that we shouldn't swing for the fences. If we can somehow get Giannis, I would be ELATED.

I'm trying to have a discussion about team construction. I find it interesting. Sometimes you have fits that are so synergistic that they are greater than the sum of their parts. Sometimes you have redundancies that diminish returns. In either scenario, adding the best player in the league is worth it.

If you're factoring in Jimmy being on the team and on the court, then to some extent, you need to factor in his presence on the court. And the reality is that Jimmy, Bam, and Giannis on the court together will take some real innovative solutions to work at a level that matches the individual talent of each of them on offense. If Jimmy isn't the ballhandler playmaking, then his spacing becomes more of an issue. He's getting a large chunk of our cap space through the 2023 season--he's to be accounted for until that time.

I get the concerns about a Giannis/Bam pairing, but just like with my previous Gobert/Bam hypothetical I don't think the lineup is necessarily hamstrung by playing two non-3pt shooters at the 4/5 in itself. The key is who they're surrounded with and the problem I think arises here when you throw Oladipo into the equation; I'm convinced Gobert/Bam could work but that's with the premise of them being joined and balanced by both DRob and Herro for heavy primary-rotation minutes. Replace one of those offball gravitational floor-spacing weapons with an onball career 35% 3pt shooting Dipo and it gets a bit trickier

Ideally I'd take Giannis without Dipo (while using that Dipo space on more seamless role fits), but if it's the case that we'd first need Dipo in order to then get Giannis... well you have to do it imo and have faith that Spo can perhaps stagger lineups so that Dipo or Jimmy can run a lot with the second unit despite being official starters


Agreed
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. Iggy 

Post#1434 » by BenoUdrihFTL » Thu Jul 9, 2020 7:53 pm

HerroBalls wrote:
Spoiler:
eddieheatfan wrote:
Shaq_Diesel wrote:Player shown on social media going on to the bus.....

Jae
Udonis
Meyers
Gabe Vincent
Goran
Silva
KZ

Missing:
Kelly
Iggy
Duncan
Jimmy
Bam
Nunn
Herro
DJJ
Solomon Hill
i think that herro's mind is set on another types of balls right now :lol:


Herro posted pictures of him in mask and looked like he was entering the bubble, and Katya has been posting pics alone all day. Safe to say he's entering the bubble.


Hopefully someone forgot to tell Solomon Hill bout all this.

Lol my thoughts exactly. For some reason I see him entering the bubble like:

Image

Then a few days later everyone's infected
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. Iggy 

Post#1435 » by Atm365 » Thu Jul 9, 2020 8:17 pm

Shaq_Diesel wrote:Still Missing:
Iggy
Duncan
Bam
Nunn
Solomon Hill


Solomon Hill is not a rotation player so can’t really say him...
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. Iggy 

Post#1436 » by twix2500 » Thu Jul 9, 2020 11:21 pm

If the Heat acquire Oladipo, I highly think it will be in a trade involving Nunn. I doubt the Heat want to put big money to two players at the scoring point guard position in 2021. Im thinking Oladipo will be negotiating his contract now with the team and if its not going the way he wants, he will demand a trade at the start of next season.

PG: Oladipo - Dragic - Vincent
SG: Butler - Herro
SF: Robinson - Iguodala
PF: Adebayo - Okpala
Ce: Gallinari - Leonard (Olynyk, Silva)

I would like this roster very well, you have scorers all around Butler.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. Iggy 

Post#1437 » by heatwillbeback » Thu Jul 9, 2020 11:53 pm

I’m all for trying in FA, but we have a good thing with the young guys in the roster.

So whatever effort you can make while keeping the young guys together, go for it. I would be hesitant to trade a bunch of young guys for an established all star player though, unless we have an ace in the bag (similar to Lac with pulling the George deal only with Leonard on board).

Another worry I have is extending Bam early. He wants to get paid and I want him to but it makes sense to wait until next offseason after FA. I don’t think he will agree though haha. And we can’t mess up the relationship with Bam.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. Iggy 

Post#1438 » by dean456 » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:14 am

I wonder in what scenario would you guys be okay with us letting Bam walk in 2021?

Say we traded for Beal and where able to bring Giannis here would you guys let Bam walk in that situation or do you think keeping Bam is a must?

Because I think having Beal/Butler/Giannis is a much better fit than something like Butler/Giannis/Olidipo or Butler/Bam/Giannis.

What would be your best case 2021 scenario?? I'd go with (4) and then (2).

2021

1)
Nunn/???
Olidipo/Herro
Butler/Robinson
Bam/Okpala
2020 pick/Silva

2)
Nunn/2020 pick
Butler/Herro
Robinson/
Giannis/Okpala
Bam/Silva

3)
Butler/???
Olidipo/???
Robinson/???
Giannis/Okpala
2020 pick/Silva

4)
Butler/???
Beal/???
Robinson/???
Giannis/Okpala
2020 pick/Silva

5)
Olidipo/???
Beal/Robinson
Butler/???
Okpala/???
2020 pick/Silva
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. Iggy 

Post#1439 » by twix2500 » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:27 am

dean456 wrote:I wonder in what scenario would you guys be okay with us letting Bam walk in 2021?

Say we traded for Beal and where able to bring Giannis here would you guys let Bam walk in that situation or do you think keeping Bam is a must?

Because I think having Beal/Butler/Giannis is a much better fit than something like Butler/Giannis/Olidipo or Butler/Bam/Giannis.

What would be your best case 2021 scenario?? I'd go with (4) and then (2).

2021

1)
Nunn/???
Olidipo/Herro
Butler/Robinson
Bam/Okpala
2020 pick/Silva

2)
Nunn/2020 pick
Butler/Herro
Robinson/
Giannis/Okpala
Bam/Silva

3)
Butler/???
Olidipo/???
Robinson/???
Giannis/Okpala
2020 pick/Silva

4)
Butler/???
Beal/???
Robinson/???
Giannis/Okpala
2020 pick/Silva

5)
Olidipo/???
Beal/Robinson
Butler/???
Okpala/???
2020 pick/Silva
Not letting Bam go unless it's for a top 5 player.

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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. Iggy 

Post#1440 » by Wiltside » Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:45 am

I found myself asking the same questions about the potential Jimmy, Bam and Giannis fit...but at the end of the day, that's a great problem to have. Our defense would be insane, and would win us games even if our offense took some time to click.

Pair those guys with Herro and Robinson, and the gravity and spacing those guys provide totally alleviates any issues. Spo would get creative in staggering rotations and putting guys in a position to succeed. We'd also have our pick of the ring chasing veterans to round out our roster with complimentary players ala the Battiers, Ray Allen's, Birdman of the Big 3 era.

I don't think Giannis is coming, I don't see a reason why he would leave a good thing he has going in Milwaukee. But until we know, Riles will be gunning for it. It's his job to do so.
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