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Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. BAM Please Burst Through that Bubble

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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. BAM Please Burst Through that Bubble 

Post#41 » by dean456 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:28 pm

AirP. wrote:
twix2500 wrote:
Spoiler:
AirP. wrote:
DJJ and Crowder's value to the team is dependent on the situation. If you have a full team ready to compete for the title you overpay to keep them, have them wait in free agency with their small cap holds so Riley can make his moves. I think this offseason is going to be huge for Miami because I completely expect Riley(who probably will only be around a few more years with Miami) to leverage the current situation in the NBA(virus so possibly no fans and teams possibly losing money) to help him obtain high level talent.

Let's look at the situation coming up after this season is up.
1. More than likely another virus season(possibly more) and possibly no fans.
a. Teams may want to drop their salaries to at or below the bottom of the soft cap(90%) to save money.
b. Teams may not want to let assets drop in value as they get older during questionable years.
c. With the big virus question looming, it would be a great time to punt a year or two to rebuild.
2. Many high level teams that most of the league will not be able to complete with(outside of Miami)
a. Lakers - AD will resign and LeBron will still be a top player for a few more years with the amount of money he puts into body recovery.
b. Bucks - Giannis will resign and if they don't win it all they'll just retool with Giannis recruiting.
c. Clippers - George and Kwahi may not leave and that team will continue to retool to be more competitive.
d. Warriors - Curry, Thompson, and Draymond will be back, Wiggins will have an owner who won't placate to him forcing him to finally play how the team wants, they'll have one of the top pick this years, and Minnesota's 1st round next year. They also may retool, Miami was looking at Draymond this season.
e. 76ers - FINALLY with moving Simmons to PF(he can be a playmaker at the PF position), this team can put more shooting on the court and Philly can finally see if Simmons and Embiid can be a better combo with more shooting around them. Maybe they move Horford this offseason for an overpriced guard or wing... Wiggins, G.Harris, E.Gordon.
f. Boston - They're coming into their own although a key player in Kemba is 29 already and we normally see a huge decline in production from short players early in their 30s.

Now with Miami you now have Butler at 30 on the first of his four year contract, Bam coming into his own in his early 20s, some interest young talent in D.Robinson, Herro, and Nunn. Now is the time to leverage the current situation in the NBA which means going after Beal & Wall (I think Washington will want to make sure Wall is moved), Oladipo although his future production is a real question mark, if he loses much/any explosion and/or quickness he's may not be a high level player anymore.

Personally I think Beal & Wall will be in play but that's a lot of money to bring in(~68 mil overall, which means sending out at least 55 million to reach the 125% threshold). Although Beal himself would bring in a haul, Wall's contract is worse then CP3s was looked at last year because of the years on it and coming off of a bad injury now entering his 30s. Olynyk(probably opts in), Iggy gets you up to 27 million on expiring contracts, you sign and trade Dragic (2 year 40 mil, 2nd year team option and giving Washington a good vet to learn from) giving him one last big pay day then you have ~10 million plus talent/picks to throw in. We can expect Nunn will be in the package, outside of that I'd expect the Heat will try to keep Herro(although may have to move him or D.Robinson), DJJ, and Robinson and try to send out multiple 1st rounders instead or possibly bring in a 3rd team to try to get more young talent to Washington but who knows, maybe some more of the young talent is included.

Looking at the possible rotation...
PG - Wall
SG - Beal
SF - Butler
PF - Bam
C - Leonard
Bench - Herro or/or Robinson, Crowder, DJJ, Silva, Okpala and try to find SOMEONE to play as a backup defensive center.

If you want try to get Giannis in the future, you can always try to create a package to get him centered around Beal or Bam.
I cant entertain any lineup with Wall in it after all his injuries

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That's fine but without taking Wall's contract also(even if he's redirected to another team), Miami won't be getting Beal, makes no sense to give up a star and still be stuck with an aging overpriced Wall without much talent on the roster. I guess a package with Bam may do it but that's not really moving forward, you'd be turning into a little better Wizard's team.

To me it's a no brainier to team up Beal with Butler and Bam, those 3 have the ability to win a championship, anything Wall gives you would be icing on the cake.


I'd rather not have Beal if it means taking on Wall's contract because it won't matter what talent we'll be able to retain by taking him on, we wont be able to pay them enough to keep them on the roster. There's plenty of other options to shaking up the roster in 2021 then swinging on a Beal trade with or without Wall.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. BAM Please Burst Through that Bubble 

Post#42 » by twix2500 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:45 pm

BFRESH44 wrote:
twix2500 wrote:
AirP. wrote:That's fine but without taking Wall's contract also(even if he's redirected to another team), Miami won't be getting Beal, makes no sense to give up a star and still be stuck with an aging overpriced Wall without much talent on the roster. I guess a package with Bam may do it but that's not really moving forward, you'd be turning into a little better Wizard's team.

To me it's a no brainier to team up Beal with Butler and Bam, those 3 have the ability to win a championship, anything Wall gives you would be icing on the cake.
Beal is a free agent in a year. He has leverage. No need to take on Wall any longer.

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Beal is not a free agent in a year. He agreed to a 2 year extension with the Wizards, and won't be a free agent until the summer of 2023.
I knew he had a player option. I thought it was summer 2021 but its summer 2022.

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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. BAM Please Burst Through that Bubble 

Post#43 » by Wiltside » Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:55 pm

I’d like to take a flyer on Wall....once he’s amnestied and we pick him up for the minimum. Not taking that deal on otherwise.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. BAM Please Burst Through that Bubble 

Post#44 » by puppa bear » Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:17 am

I’ve been for the Wall/Beal package in the past, and still am. Wall can play the Dragic role as Herro comes along and getting D-Rob in with the rest of the starters on the first sub would be ideal.

Another thing Wall is that it likely bring Boogie in as well - they have been open about playing together, and he’d be a great pair with Leonard at the 5 (when Bam isn’t the 5).

If we could swing it then we’d be looking at a really good and deep team. ECF for the next 3 years would be the aim, and we might get another ring out of that.
Wall/Beal/Jimmy/Bam/Leonard starting with Nerro/D-Rob/Boogie/Crowder/DJJ/KZ/Silva off the bench.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. BAM Please Burst Through that Bubble 

Post#45 » by Wiltside » Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:45 am

puppa bear wrote:I’ve been for the Wall/Beal package in the past, and still am. Wall can play the Dragic role as Herro comes along and getting D-Rob in with the rest of the starters on the first sub would be ideal.

Another thing Wall is that it likely bring Boogie in as well - they have been open about playing together, and he’d be a great pair with Leonard at the 5 (when Bam isn’t the 5).

If we could swing it then we’d be looking at a really good and deep team. ECF for the next 3 years would be the aim, and we might get another ring out of that.
Wall/Beal/Jimmy/Bam/Leonard starting with Nerro/D-Rob/Boogie/Crowder/DJJ/KZ/Silva off the bench.


I don't think physically there would be enough room under the cap to have Beal, Wall, Butler and then Bam's max extension without paying huge taxes. We'd also lose Robinson, DJJ and others by being unable to match what they're getting in the market.

I don't think you can afford to take the swing with Wall until we actually see what he looks like on the floor. $40m per for 3 more years after this one + achilles injuries + 30yr old PG aren't the best combination. I think the risk is too high.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. BAM Please Burst Through that Bubble 

Post#46 » by DayofMourning » Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:48 am

Offseason/inseason getting long when Wall's name pops up.

Don't even care about Beal either.

Shoot for the moon in free agency, and groom the young guys to contribute.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. BAM Please Burst Through that Bubble 

Post#47 » by Wiltside » Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:02 am

DayofMourning wrote:Offseason/inseason getting long when Wall's name pops up.

Don't even care about Beal either.

Shoot for the moon in free agency, and groom the young guys to contribute.


We're not even that far off being a legit contender as it is. If Bam makes another leap this offseason, followed by some internal improvement from Robinson/Herro/Nunn/DJJ (?), we will be Top 3 in the conference next year. From there, anything can happen.

I wonder how much improvement Bam has in him. He's like a baby-KG at this point, without the offensive refinement. Will he ever be able to get to that super elite level?

I agree though - we have to shoot for the moon. Only way we deviate from the plan is if we can get a really high level player in 2020, whoever that may be.

Would love for Gallo to take a 1+1 with a late guarantee date (mid-July) in 2021 if possible. He'd fit nicely here, even if he's not a great defender.

Man - just had that 2021 pipedream lineup vision of:

Butler
Herro
Robinson
Antetokounmpo
Adebayo

And got super firm. Imagine even adding Dipo and having Herro as the 6th man...

Spoiler:
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. BAM Please Burst Through that Bubble 

Post#48 » by MadD23 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:31 pm

Thinking a more realistic scenario to improve our roster and be ready to compete in 2020, I would try to get that trade done for Dipo and bring in Gallo.

Dipo / Dragic
Duncan / Herro
Butler / Crowder or Iggy
Gallo / DJJ or KZ
Adebayo / Leonard or KO

That team can cause some damage in 2020. 4 of those players in the starting lineup can average around 20pts per game and the other one is a spacing assassin that can average around 15pts per game. Then you have a killer second unit that makes your team deadly for 48 minutes. That would be an exciting team to watch. Then we worry about Giannis in 2021 if we have a shot at getting him.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. BAM Please Burst Through that Bubble 

Post#49 » by twix2500 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:56 pm

MadD23 wrote:Thinking a more realistic scenario to improve our roster and be ready to compete in 2020, I would try to get that trade done for Dipo and bring in Gallo.

Dipo / Dragic
Duncan / Herro
Butler / Crowder or Iggy
Gallo / DJJ or KZ
Adebayo / Leonard or KO

That team can cause some damage in 2020. 4 of those players in the starting lineup can average around 20pts per game and the other one is a spacing assassin that can average around 15pts per game. Then you have a killer second unit that makes your team deadly for 48 minutes. That would be an exciting team to watch. Then we worry about Giannis in 2021 if we have a shot at getting him.


This is the most likely the route I think the will take. Also, the team should have very tradable players if a player of Giannis wants to play with the Heat. I do question will Gallo opt out this offseason because of the economic climate.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. BAM Please Burst Through that Bubble 

Post#50 » by BenoUdrihFTL » Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:04 pm

MadD23 wrote:Thinking a more realistic scenario to improve our roster and be ready to compete in 2020, I would try to get that trade done for Dipo and bring in Gallo.

Dipo / Dragic
Duncan / Herro
Butler / Crowder or Iggy
Gallo / DJJ or KZ
Adebayo / Leonard or KO

That team can cause some damage in 2020. 4 of those players in the starting lineup can average around 20pts per game and the other one is a spacing assassin that can average around 15pts per game. Then you have a killer second unit that makes your team deadly for 48 minutes. That would be an exciting team to watch. Then we worry about Giannis in 2021 if we have a shot at getting him.

Dipo is signed through next season tho and the idea of giving up assets for him is pretty risky given all his uncertainty

Gallo is nice but he'd make life even harder defensively for Bam. Plus Gallo hasn't hit the 70 games played mark since 2013, in fact you're lucky if he gets you 60. He's played an average of 50 gms/yr coming into this season (even if you remove 2014 when he missed the entire season, it's still an avg of 55 games over 10 seasons). If we could get him on a one-year tryout for 2020-21 that'd be great but I'd expect him to be looking for something longer at age 32

If we could get both without surrendering assets, and they both stay healthy, I agree that team could contend next season. But I just don't know how that happens
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. BAM Please Burst Through that Bubble 

Post#51 » by AirP. » Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:45 pm

dean456 wrote:
AirP. wrote:
twix2500 wrote:
Spoiler:
I cant entertain any lineup with Wall in it after all his injuries

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That's fine but without taking Wall's contract also(even if he's redirected to another team), Miami won't be getting Beal, makes no sense to give up a star and still be stuck with an aging overpriced Wall without much talent on the roster. I guess a package with Bam may do it but that's not really moving forward, you'd be turning into a little better Wizard's team.

To me it's a no brainier to team up Beal with Butler and Bam, those 3 have the ability to win a championship, anything Wall gives you would be icing on the cake.


I'd rather not have Beal if it means taking on Wall's contract because it won't matter what talent we'll be able to retain by taking him on, we wont be able to pay them enough to keep them on the roster. There's plenty of other options to shaking up the roster in 2021 then swinging on a Beal trade with or without Wall.

Not sure you're going to be able to have more on-court talent any other way. I also expect Wall to be a good player when he comes back, not worth his contract but good. Maybe if Wall shows some signs of being a good player in a year or 2 you can use his salary and an asset or 2 to upgrade again.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. BAM Please Burst Through that Bubble 

Post#52 » by AirP. » Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:58 pm

Wiltside wrote:I’d like to take a flyer on Wall....once he’s amnestied and we pick him up for the minimum. Not taking that deal on otherwise.

Man... sounds like the same thing I heard about CP3 one year ago on this board. I'd absolutely do what I can to put Butler, Bam, Beal, and Wall on the court together, add a stretch 4/5 or a big rebounding 4/5 and you have a GREAT starting 5, if Wall goes down, I think Butler, Bam, and Beal will be able to handle it.

At some point, you have to look at the team's construction instead of just the salaries, you can always make trades in the future.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. BAM Please Burst Through that Bubble 

Post#53 » by heatwillbeback » Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:36 pm

Didn't see this posted, but its good news.

Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter


Obviously things could change, but I am just praying the guys get healthy and we get to see this team at full strength.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. BAM Please Burst Through that Bubble 

Post#54 » by Wiltside » Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:52 pm

The guy we should be monitoring more than Beal is Devin Booker.

Chitty situation in Phoenix, I can’t imagine he has a lot of patience left in him. One of the best offensive players in the league, and would be a great fit with Butler and Bam. Still just 23yrs old, somehow.

26/4/6 on 48% with 2 triples per game. Elite numbers.

You could kiss goodbye to Herro, Nunn and someone else in this scenario. But it’d be worth it IMO.

Booker is locked up through 23-24, but on high 20’s-low 30’s per annum. Could be worse for a player of his calibre.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. BAM Please Burst Through that Bubble 

Post#55 » by MartyCONLONNN » Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:08 am

No way Phoenix trades Booker anytime soon. It’s too good of a contract & they will allow for some of their players to develop before considering letting that kind of asset go. Booker also has zero leverage, especially to go to the team of his choice and there will be way better offers than Herro/Nunn/picks. Actually Love the idea, but likely the most unrealistic of them all.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. BAM Please Burst Through that Bubble 

Post#56 » by dean456 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:10 am

AirP. wrote:
dean456 wrote:
AirP. wrote:That's fine but without taking Wall's contract also(even if he's redirected to another team), Miami won't be getting Beal, makes no sense to give up a star and still be stuck with an aging overpriced Wall without much talent on the roster. I guess a package with Bam may do it but that's not really moving forward, you'd be turning into a little better Wizard's team.

To me it's a no brainier to team up Beal with Butler and Bam, those 3 have the ability to win a championship, anything Wall gives you would be icing on the cake.


I'd rather not have Beal if it means taking on Wall's contract because it won't matter what talent we'll be able to retain by taking him on, we wont be able to pay them enough to keep them on the roster. There's plenty of other options to shaking up the roster in 2021 then swinging on a Beal trade with or without Wall.

Not sure you're going to be able to have more on-court talent any other way. I also expect Wall to be a good player when he comes back, not worth his contract but good. Maybe if Wall shows some signs of being a good player in a year or 2 you can use his salary and an asset or 2 to upgrade again.


Beal and Wall combine for 70mil in salary next season. How are we going to trade for them to begin with and hope to retain any of the talent you are talking about? Our unrestricted free agents aren't going to sign and trade to go to Washington they will just leave and sign deals where they want to go. That leaves us with Olynyk and Iguodala who we can trade which adds up to $28mil in salaries, we'd still be 42mil short of trading for Beal and Wall. It would cost us Jimmy and Bam/some other combination of our young talent to make the money work.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. BAM Please Burst Through that Bubble 

Post#57 » by al bondiga » Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:04 pm

There is absolutely NO way I would pay more than 40 million per year to a player that is not named James, Jordan, Kobe...not even Larry, Magic or whoever... not until the cap goes up considerably
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. BAM Please Burst Through that Bubble 

Post#58 » by gom » Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:03 pm

Pass on Wall, Cousins, and Gallo. Cooling on Beal & Dipo too. We need to be opportunistic, but it's easy to sabotage what we have by moving too soon when more becomes available later. Booker or Fox are interesting but I agree it's unlikely they shake out. Giannis & Anthony Davis is where we should aim if we hope to compete.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. BAM Please Burst Through that Bubble 

Post#59 » by AirP. » Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:21 pm

dean456 wrote:
AirP. wrote:
dean456 wrote:
I'd rather not have Beal if it means taking on Wall's contract because it won't matter what talent we'll be able to retain by taking him on, we wont be able to pay them enough to keep them on the roster. There's plenty of other options to shaking up the roster in 2021 then swinging on a Beal trade with or without Wall.

Not sure you're going to be able to have more on-court talent any other way. I also expect Wall to be a good player when he comes back, not worth his contract but good. Maybe if Wall shows some signs of being a good player in a year or 2 you can use his salary and an asset or 2 to upgrade again.


Beal and Wall combine for 70mil in salary next season. How are we going to trade for them to begin with and hope to retain any of the talent you are talking about? Our unrestricted free agents aren't going to sign and trade to go to Washington they will just leave and sign deals where they want to go. That leaves us with Olynyk and Iguodala who we can trade which adds up to $28mil in salaries, we'd still be 42mil short of trading for Beal and Wall. It would cost us Jimmy and Bam/some other combination of our young talent to make the money work.

How much do you think Dragic is going to command in free agency this offseason, I don't think it's anywhere near 20 million for one let alone 2 years in the current situation the NBA is in. Yeah, I think he'd be good taking one last big payday for his last or close to last contract(could be bought out and sign elsewhere), Miami and Washington could allow Dragic to make more than 20 million as a filler in the trade. There are ways to get the deal done if both sides want it done. It just comes down to giving up enough assets. Just in the last offseason, Miami came up with a Whiteside trade really quick once the original trade to get Butler couldn't happen.
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Re: Miami Heat Regular Season Thread Vol. BAM Please Burst Through that Bubble 

Post#60 » by dean456 » Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:49 am

AirP. wrote:
dean456 wrote:
AirP. wrote:Not sure you're going to be able to have more on-court talent any other way. I also expect Wall to be a good player when he comes back, not worth his contract but good. Maybe if Wall shows some signs of being a good player in a year or 2 you can use his salary and an asset or 2 to upgrade again.


Beal and Wall combine for 70mil in salary next season. How are we going to trade for them to begin with and hope to retain any of the talent you are talking about? Our unrestricted free agents aren't going to sign and trade to go to Washington they will just leave and sign deals where they want to go. That leaves us with Olynyk and Iguodala who we can trade which adds up to $28mil in salaries, we'd still be 42mil short of trading for Beal and Wall. It would cost us Jimmy and Bam/some other combination of our young talent to make the money work.

How much do you think Dragic is going to command in free agency this offseason, I don't think it's anywhere near 20 million for one let alone 2 years in the current situation the NBA is in. Yeah, I think he'd be good taking one last big payday for his last or close to last contract(could be bought out and sign elsewhere), Miami and Washington could allow Dragic to make more than 20 million as a filler in the trade. There are ways to get the deal done if both sides want it done. It just comes down to giving up enough assets. Just in the last offseason, Miami came up with a Whiteside trade really quick once the original trade to get Butler couldn't happen.


I think realistically Dragic could command anywhere from 12-15mil next season around the league, but he could possibly take less in order to stay with us. But I highly doubt Dragic wants to be playing on a rebuilding Washington squad even if it nets him more money.

I'm not interested in committing 114.8mil to Beal, Wall and Butler alone in 2021 and then up to 145mil to those 3 guys plus Bam once we extend him.

Wall wasn't worth 40mil per year even when he was healthy and he hasn't played a game since December of 2018 and only played half the 2017-2018 season as well.

Also we aren't making any deal involving Beal that won't at least cost us Herro. So I'd much rather go all in and trade Herro, Nunn, Iggy, Olynyk and a FRP for Beal straight up than take on Wall's contract.

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