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Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond...

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Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#841 » by RonaldSeikaly » Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:48 pm

Beenie wrote:
insfo wrote:Some of you are delusional with these Harden trade proposals. Robinson/Nunn/KO+picks?? Lol, you will get laughed at for proposals like that! And I guess we “sweeten the pot” by adding Iguodala?? If the opening offer isn’t going to be Bam+Herro+picks, then we might as well not even try.

And for folks talking about fit, if in the very remote chance we somehow get gifted Harden, I trust Spo to make it work. But realistically, we are better off trying run it back with some combination of Ibaka/Gallo/Noel, hoping for some growth in Bam, Herro, Nunn & Robinson...and waiting for the next offseason.


I agree and disagree.

Hou presumably would be going into a rebuild if they trade Harden. They're gonna want multiple picks (high picks) and young upside players preferably on their rookie contracts.

Shortlist of guys who are likely on that list:
Zion
Morant
Herro
Luka
Trey Young
Tatum
Mitchell
Bam
Simmons (contract already extended)
Ingram

The only guy on this list other than Herro who could conceivably get traded for Harden is maybe Ingram, and I doubt it. Point is, Hou doesn't have good options to acquire young talent other than Herro. If Mia were to throw in Bam they would just be bidding against themselves, IMO. I think an offer of Herro, Nunn, KZ, DJJ (sign n trade), picks, and KO would really give them something to think about. Granted, they could find offers for a better assortment of draft picks than what Mia is capable of offering. But they'd be hard-pressed to get a better package of young players.

Smart post. There is one other thing a team could offer that would get Houston’s attention ( not us!... unless it is part are of a 3 team trade) relief from Westbrook’s contract.


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Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#842 » by Beenie » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:42 pm

RonaldSeikaly wrote:
Beenie wrote:
insfo wrote:Some of you are delusional with these Harden trade proposals. Robinson/Nunn/KO+picks?? Lol, you will get laughed at for proposals like that! And I guess we “sweeten the pot” by adding Iguodala?? If the opening offer isn’t going to be Bam+Herro+picks, then we might as well not even try.

And for folks talking about fit, if in the very remote chance we somehow get gifted Harden, I trust Spo to make it work. But realistically, we are better off trying run it back with some combination of Ibaka/Gallo/Noel, hoping for some growth in Bam, Herro, Nunn & Robinson...and waiting for the next offseason.


I agree and disagree.

Hou presumably would be going into a rebuild if they trade Harden. They're gonna want multiple picks (high picks) and young upside players preferably on their rookie contracts.

Shortlist of guys who are likely on that list:
Zion
Morant
Herro
Luka
Trey Young
Tatum
Mitchell
Bam
Simmons (contract already extended)
Ingram

The only guy on this list other than Herro who could conceivably get traded for Harden is maybe Ingram, and I doubt it. Point is, Hou doesn't have good options to acquire young talent other than Herro. If Mia were to throw in Bam they would just be bidding against themselves, IMO. I think an offer of Herro, Nunn, KZ, DJJ (sign n trade), picks, and KO would really give them something to think about. Granted, they could find offers for a better assortment of draft picks than what Mia is capable of offering. But they'd be hard-pressed to get a better package of young players.

Smart post. There is one other thing a team could offer that would get Houston’s attention ( not us!... unless it is part are of a 3 team trade) relief from Westbrook’s contract.


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I suspect that Hou could find a trade partner for Westbrook independently from a Harden deal. The Knicks are rumored to have interest in him.
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Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#843 » by Rapaz » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:11 pm

"James Harden changed my life"

"An entire page could be dedicated just to James," Morey wrote. "He not only transformed my life but also revolutionized the game of basketball -- and continues to do so -- like almost no one has before. The game is played differently because of James, and on every playground in the world, the next generation of talent is studying and imitating his game."

"I can't believe I won't be able to have another strategy session with James," Morey wrote. "I loved working together on how to get his incredible Hall of Fame teammates Dwight Howard, Chris Paul and Russell Westbrook to the Rockets. I will be rooting for James to win a championship in Houston. It's how this story should end."

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Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#844 » by IggieCC » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:20 pm

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Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#845 » by SA37 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:01 pm

I am not a Harden fan -- and I don't know why everyone is speculating about a possible trade -- but if Miami could get him without giving up Bam, Herro, or Butler, there is no way you can turn that deal down. That said, I don't see why Houston would trade Harden.

Waiting for Giannis is fine as long as Miami can still bring back enough people to compete. I have no idea what Miami's cap sitation is, but there are some free agents out there I think Miami should look at -- VanVleet, Ibaka, Joe Harris, Nicolas Batum, Gallinari, Bertans, Melo.
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Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#846 » by twix2500 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:21 pm

How much do you think Robinson is going to demand on the open market?

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Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#847 » by IggieCC » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:56 pm

twix2500 wrote:How much do you think Robinson is going to demand on the open market?

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12 per in current covid uncertainty market.

15 in normal market (he's what Lakers thought Danny Green would be this szn)

18 in booming market

I think NBA won't be booming next szn for sure, so he won't get the market value is my guess but if he plays well again next season he'll be reasonably pursued.
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Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#848 » by IggieCC » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:04 pm

SA37 wrote:I am not a Harden fan -- and I don't know why everyone is speculating about a possible trade -- but if Miami could get him without giving up Bam, Herro, or Butler, there is no way you can turn that deal down. That said, I don't see why Houston would trade Harden.

Waiting for Giannis is fine as long as Miami can still bring back enough people to compete. I have no idea what Miami's cap sitation is, but there are some free agents out there I think Miami should look at -- VanVleet, Ibaka, Joe Harris, Nicolas Batum, Gallinari, Bertans, Melo.

Pretty simple. Because we have nothing to talk about if the plan is just to wait around for Giannis (even if that's the team's REAL PLAN A).

The team is in a tricky spot because what we really want isn't really available rn, but going after said some free agents will mess up that plan. Hence we daydream about the Beard no mater how nonsensical it may seem.

The most sensible idea is to go after players who are willing to sign 1+1 with us to improve our team while maintaining our ability to go after a whale.
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Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#849 » by twix2500 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:43 pm

RexBoyWonder wrote:
twix2500 wrote:
RexBoyWonder wrote:Why should we gut to team to trade for Harden when there's a real chance we can add Giannis/Kawhi/P. Gorge/Jrue Holiday/Oladipo for free (no assets given) if we wait 1 year?

Are you really confident in getting Giannis?


Depends how you define confident.

It's far from a sure thing, but I'm confident we have a real shot to get Giannis next year.

Considering cap space situations, contending teams, city and organizations - It's fair to say it's a 3 team race :

Giannis either stays in Milwaukee, Goes to Dallas, or come here.

The Bucks are in a tough spot because they're ageing and don't have much flexibility to get better. If they fail again this year, there's a real chance Giannis wants out.

Dallas has a lot riding on 7'2 C with a torn ACL and MCL. And Luka is a very high usage, primary ball handler - not a fit next Giannis.

So I'd say we have at least a 40% to get him as of right now.

If we do get him, it's not only that he's a much better 2 way player then Harden, He's also much younger, fit better with the culture, and will provide a much longer window to contend. He also won't cost us Herro/Duncan/Nunn/Bam like Harden would.

Even Jrue Holiday, who is a lesser player then Harden - would be a better addition then Harden simply because I much rather have

Jrue + Butler + Bam + Herro + Duncan + KZ + Nunn + keep our future draft picks

then have

Harden + Jimmy + Bam and no one else around then because they were all traded to get Harden. (Harden probably costs us Bam too BTW)

We need to think big picture here. It's not just whos the better player, it's also about about to cost of getting him, his fit and age.
40% Wow! Thats extremely high. For me a lot more has to happen to be that confident. I have to know we have an interview set up.

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Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#850 » by MiamiSun » Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:13 am

Please no to Harden.

We played such a beautiful style of Basketball this year. Watching this team play was a pleasure. Even when we lost, it was not as frustrating as watching the Whiteside Heat play.

I have always thought that the Rockets style of play was ugly and unwatchable. Harden is a ball hog and not fun to watch. You say Spoelstra can work with him? I disagree. I actually like D'Antoni as a coach in the past. The beauty of his 7 seconds or less system was amazing. But even he could not make Harden's style of basketball watchable.

Just say no to the beard!!
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Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#851 » by twix2500 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:44 am

The more and more I think about it. I think its vital to sign Ibaka. Its important to see if Bam can make the next jump and carry the team offensively. So getting a veteran big who can relieve Bam from the dirty work so Bam can spend more energy being aggressive scorer. Also I think Ibaka will be a great on the court mentor who share similarities with. Even if it uses some of our salary cap.

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Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#852 » by RexBoyWonder » Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:53 pm

Since we know Pat likes LaMarcus Aldridge,

and LaMarcus Aldridge is on the last year of his contract,

and he started to shoot and hit 3's this last season,

would you trade some combination of Kelly\iggy\Nunn\Djj\future second for LaMarcus Aldridge?
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Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#853 » by eddieheatfan » Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:20 pm

RexBoyWonder wrote:Since we know Pat likes LaMarcus Aldridge,

and LaMarcus Aldridge is on the last year of his contract,

and he started to shoot and hit 3's this last season,

would you trade some combination of Kelly\iggy\Nunn\Djj\future second for LaMarcus Aldridge?
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Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#854 » by SA37 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:04 pm

twix2500 wrote:The more and more I think about it. I think its vital to sign Ibaka. Its important to see if Bam can make the next jump and carry the team offensively. So getting a veteran big who can relieve Bam from the dirty work so Bam can spend more energy being aggressive scorer. Also I think Ibaka will be a great on the court mentor who share similarities with. Even if it uses some of our salary cap.

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Ibaka is a great fit. He's got playoff/championship experience, he can hit the 3, and he is still one of the better frontcourt defenders. How much would he cost, though?
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Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#855 » by Rapaz » Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:18 pm

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Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#856 » by SA37 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:22 pm

IggieCC wrote:
SA37 wrote:I am not a Harden fan -- and I don't know why everyone is speculating about a possible trade -- but if Miami could get him without giving up Bam, Herro, or Butler, there is no way you can turn that deal down. That said, I don't see why Houston would trade Harden.

Waiting for Giannis is fine as long as Miami can still bring back enough people to compete. I have no idea what Miami's cap sitation is, but there are some free agents out there I think Miami should look at -- VanVleet, Ibaka, Joe Harris, Nicolas Batum, Gallinari, Bertans, Melo.

Pretty simple. Because we have nothing to talk about if the plan is just to wait around for Giannis (even if that's the team's REAL PLAN A).

The team is in a tricky spot because what we really want isn't really available rn, but going after said some free agents will mess up that plan. Hence we daydream about the Beard no mater how nonsensical it may seem.

The most sensible idea is to go after players who are willing to sign 1+1 with us to improve our team while maintaining our ability to go after a whale.


Ah, ok. I didn't know if there was some long-shot rumor going around or something like that.

And, no question, it is an ultra tricky situation.
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Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#857 » by twix2500 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:22 pm

SA37 wrote:
twix2500 wrote:The more and more I think about it. I think its vital to sign Ibaka. Its important to see if Bam can make the next jump and carry the team offensively. So getting a veteran big who can relieve Bam from the dirty work so Bam can spend more energy being aggressive scorer. Also I think Ibaka will be a great on the court mentor who share similarities with. Even if it uses some of our salary cap.

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Ibaka is a great fit. He's got playoff/championship experience, he can hit the 3, and he is still one of the better frontcourt defenders. How much would he cost, though?


Not exactly sure, but I do not think it will be an immovable contract. I will also keep throwing in the idea of going after Dennis Schroder. Olynyk and the Heat 20th pick for Schroder and OKC 25th pick. Nunn gets a mentor in Schroder and Bam gets a body guard in Ibaka. Defense improves and offensive improves. Jimmy along with Bam can now also focus more on offensive scoring.

PG: Schroder - Dragic - Nunn
SG: Butler - Herro
SF: Robinson - Iggy - Crowder
PF: Adebayo - KZ
Ce: Ibaka - Leonard

Schroder can be rental if Giannis chooses the Heat and the Heat will have Nunn hopefully a developed player by then and can be moved back to the starting lineup

PG: Nunn - Veteran
SG: Butler - Herro
SF: Robinson
PF: Giannis - KZ
Ce: Ibaka
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Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#858 » by fbalmeida » Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:24 pm

Ibaka is likely to get a one year golden handshake from the Raptors this off-season. Word is that some mega-contract is likely in the works, heaping something like 26-30 M on him, to keep the Raptors max slot intact for 2021. On a multi-year deal elsewhere, he'll likely demand the sort of money that can compromise the cap space for a run at Giannis. Cap-wise there are only three realistic contenders at this point for Gianni. The Heat, the Mavs, and the Raptors. All others, either don't have the roster or organization to entice his interest, or would rely on an unlikely sign-and-trade with questionable assets.
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Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#859 » by SA37 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:26 pm

twix2500 wrote:
SA37 wrote:
twix2500 wrote:The more and more I think about it. I think its vital to sign Ibaka. Its important to see if Bam can make the next jump and carry the team offensively. So getting a veteran big who can relieve Bam from the dirty work so Bam can spend more energy being aggressive scorer. Also I think Ibaka will be a great on the court mentor who share similarities with. Even if it uses some of our salary cap.

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Ibaka is a great fit. He's got playoff/championship experience, he can hit the 3, and he is still one of the better frontcourt defenders. How much would he cost, though?


Not exactly sure, but I do not think it will be an immovable contract. I will also keep throwing in the idea of going after Dennis Schroder. Olynyk and the Heat 20th pick for Schroder and OKC 25th pick. Nunn gets a mentor in Schroder and Bam gets a body guard in Ibaka. Defense improves and offensive improves. Jimmy along with Bam can now also focus more on offensive scoring.

PG: Schroder - Dragic - Nunn
SG: Butler - Herro
SF: Robinson - Iggy - Crowder
PF: Adebayo - KZ
Ce: Ibaka - Leonard


Schroder is excellent. I don't know if Miami could make those additions, bring back Crowder, Dragic, and Leonard, and still have space to go after Giannis.

I'm not worried about Ibaka being a movable contract; I just think he'll command big money and Toronto will be willing to pay because Gasol is on his last legs and they have no other bigs.
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Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#860 » by SA37 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:32 pm

fbalmeida wrote:Ibaka is likely to get a one year golden handshake from the Raptors this off-season. Word is that some mega-contract is likely in the works, heaping something like 26-30 M on him, to keep the Raptors max slot intact for 2021. On a multi-year deal elsewhere, he'll likely demand the sort of money that can compromise the cap space for a run at Giannis. Cap-wise there are only three realistic contenders at this point for Gianni. The Heat, the Mavs, and the Raptors. All others, either don't have the roster or organization to entice his interest, or would rely on an unlikely sign-and-trade with questionable assets.


I could see that, although that'd be mighty risky on his part given he'll be 32 when he'd get his big contract. The other things is, I don't know if anyone else has enough room and desire to offer him big money this offseason. Teams like the Clippers, the Rockets, the Celtics, Golden St.... they could all use him and you'd think they'd be willing to give him 3-4 years at $15-20 million per.

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