ImageImageImage

Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond...

Moderators: BFRESH44, Wiltside, MettaWorldPanda, heat4life, IggieCC

User avatar
DayofMourning
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 20,917
And1: 53,362
Joined: Jan 03, 2006
       

Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#121 » by DayofMourning » Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:52 am

Read on Twitter
Image

Your 2020 Dunk Contest Champion-Derrick Jones Jr!
User avatar
insfo
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,331
And1: 3,000
Joined: Feb 02, 2005
Location: Ancora Imparo

Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#122 » by insfo » Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:43 am

User avatar
MartyCONLONNN
Veteran
Posts: 2,642
And1: 1,574
Joined: Dec 01, 2009

Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#123 » by MartyCONLONNN » Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:49 pm

What Clutch & 5 Reasons put out regarding the Lowry/Ibaka smoke would be an incredible move going into '21. At this point Lowry is a perfect fit for everything the Heat are doing now. Deadly scorer off the PnR & led the league in charges. Ibaka functions as an ideal backup center & allows a situational lineup where we can play 2 bigs without giving up so much defensively. And the fact that it can get done while retaining Crowder & Goran is key. This should be the plan and we all know about Jimmy's connection with KL. My only reservation is my doubt about Masai helping us contend. But by the sound of it Lowry sounded like he knew he was moving on... perhaps Masai does right by him & sends him somewhere to end his career with 1 of his closest friends. We'll see.

Lowry/Dragic/VIncent
Butler/Herro
Robinson/Hill
Crowder/KZ
Bam/Ibaka/Silva

That squad is back in the ECF at the very least & going into '21 as attractive of a destination as ever.
User avatar
DayofMourning
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 20,917
And1: 53,362
Joined: Jan 03, 2006
       

Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#124 » by DayofMourning » Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:59 pm

MartyCONLONNN wrote:What Clutch & 5 Reasons put out regarding the Lowry/Ibaka smoke would be an incredible move going into '21. At this point Lowry is a perfect fit for everything the Heat are doing now. Deadly scorer off the PnR & led the league in charges. Ibaka functions as an ideal backup center & allows a situational lineup where we can play 2 bigs without giving up so much defensively. And the fact that it can get done while retaining Crowder & Goran is key. This should be the plan and we all know about Jimmy's connection with KL. My only reservation is my doubt about Masai helping us contend. But by the sound of it Lowry sounded like he knew he was moving on... perhaps Masai does right by him & sends him somewhere to end his career with 1 of his closest friends. We'll see.

Lowry/Dragic/VIncent
Butler/Herro
Robinson/Hill
Crowder/KZ
Bam/Ibaka/Silva

That squad is back in the ECF at the very least & going into '21 as attractive of a destination as ever.


Squad is basically unattainable. How do we add Lowry and Ibaka, while also keeping Jae and Dragic? We've got ~$30 mil this off-season. Each one of those deserves a $15 mil per year deal.
Image

Your 2020 Dunk Contest Champion-Derrick Jones Jr!
User avatar
MartyCONLONNN
Veteran
Posts: 2,642
And1: 1,574
Joined: Dec 01, 2009

Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#125 » by MartyCONLONNN » Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:10 pm

DayofMourning wrote:
MartyCONLONNN wrote:What Clutch & 5 Reasons put out regarding the Lowry/Ibaka smoke would be an incredible move going into '21. At this point Lowry is a perfect fit for everything the Heat are doing now. Deadly scorer off the PnR & led the league in charges. Ibaka functions as an ideal backup center & allows a situational lineup where we can play 2 bigs without giving up so much defensively. And the fact that it can get done while retaining Crowder & Goran is key. This should be the plan and we all know about Jimmy's connection with KL. My only reservation is my doubt about Masai helping us contend. But by the sound of it Lowry sounded like he knew he was moving on... perhaps Masai does right by him & sends him somewhere to end his career with 1 of his closest friends. We'll see.

Lowry/Dragic/VIncent
Butler/Herro
Robinson/Hill
Crowder/KZ
Bam/Ibaka/Silva

That squad is back in the ECF at the very least & going into '21 as attractive of a destination as ever.


Squad is basically unattainable. How do we add Lowry and Ibaka, while also keeping Jae and Dragic? We've got ~$30 mil this off-season. Each one of those deserves a $15 mil per year deal.


It isn't unattainable at all. You match Lowry's salary with KO/Iggy/Nunn a 1st. then sign Ibaka and use bird right to sign 1 year deals to Dragic & Crowder. The Ibaka part is a little tricky because he may want a longer deal. but Lowry is just a simple salary exchange trade. while retaining the cap space we already had. But yeah, the notion that both of them want to be here was brought up by Clutch & Co. Very feasible but Ibaka part is a total mystery to me.
User avatar
DayofMourning
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 20,917
And1: 53,362
Joined: Jan 03, 2006
       

Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#126 » by DayofMourning » Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:46 pm

MartyCONLONNN wrote:
DayofMourning wrote:
MartyCONLONNN wrote:What Clutch & 5 Reasons put out regarding the Lowry/Ibaka smoke would be an incredible move going into '21. At this point Lowry is a perfect fit for everything the Heat are doing now. Deadly scorer off the PnR & led the league in charges. Ibaka functions as an ideal backup center & allows a situational lineup where we can play 2 bigs without giving up so much defensively. And the fact that it can get done while retaining Crowder & Goran is key. This should be the plan and we all know about Jimmy's connection with KL. My only reservation is my doubt about Masai helping us contend. But by the sound of it Lowry sounded like he knew he was moving on... perhaps Masai does right by him & sends him somewhere to end his career with 1 of his closest friends. We'll see.

Lowry/Dragic/VIncent
Butler/Herro
Robinson/Hill
Crowder/KZ
Bam/Ibaka/Silva

That squad is back in the ECF at the very least & going into '21 as attractive of a destination as ever.


Squad is basically unattainable. How do we add Lowry and Ibaka, while also keeping Jae and Dragic? We've got ~$30 mil this off-season. Each one of those deserves a $15 mil per year deal.


It isn't unattainable at all. You match Lowry's salary with KO/Iggy/Nunn a 1st. then sign Ibaka and use bird right to sign 1 year deals to Dragic & Crowder. The Ibaka part is a little tricky because he may want a longer deal. but Lowry is just a simple salary exchange trade. while retaining the cap space we already had. But yeah, the notion that both of them want to be here was brought up by Clutch & Co. Very feasible but Ibaka part is a total mystery to me.


Okay. Lowry to Miami seems pretty unrealistic. By trading him, you basically are resetting. I will believe that when I see it.

I think you could get Dragic on a team friendly deal, but nothing crazy. I still think he gets $15 million. Jae is going to want years.

Say the mind boggling trade of Lowry went down, and the other two guys signed for $15 million per. Would we then be able to use a MLE?
Image

Your 2020 Dunk Contest Champion-Derrick Jones Jr!
User avatar
MartyCONLONNN
Veteran
Posts: 2,642
And1: 1,574
Joined: Dec 01, 2009

Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#127 » by MartyCONLONNN » Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:25 pm

DayofMourning wrote:
MartyCONLONNN wrote:
DayofMourning wrote:
Squad is basically unattainable. How do we add Lowry and Ibaka, while also keeping Jae and Dragic? We've got ~$30 mil this off-season. Each one of those deserves a $15 mil per year deal.


It isn't unattainable at all. You match Lowry's salary with KO/Iggy/Nunn a 1st. then sign Ibaka and use bird right to sign 1 year deals to Dragic & Crowder. The Ibaka part is a little tricky because he may want a longer deal. but Lowry is just a simple salary exchange trade. while retaining the cap space we already had. But yeah, the notion that both of them want to be here was brought up by Clutch & Co. Very feasible but Ibaka part is a total mystery to me.


Okay. Lowry to Miami seems pretty unrealistic. By trading him, you basically are resetting. I will believe that when I see it.

I think you could get Dragic on a team friendly deal, but nothing crazy. I still think he gets $15 million. Jae is going to want years.

Say the mind boggling trade of Lowry went down, and the other two guys signed for $15 million per. Would we then be able to use a MLE?


Raptors are essentially in a reset regardless this offseason with 4 of their key players being UFA and only being in position to keep FVV if they still want a shot at Giannis (and we all know FVV will be very expensive). Losing all those guys, the Raptors know they aren't contending next season to keep that 2021 flexibility so that's where the Lowry chatter is coming from. And it makes sense if you look at the numbers.

The market is going to be very thin this summer which is why we're hearing so much talk about these balloon 1 year deals. Maybe Jae likes it enough here where he will take a deal like that. The way he is performing here isn't anywhere near the player he's been for the past 3 years so I'd be cautious assuming other teams feel they can replicate the way production/fit in Miami and giving him several years. We'll see but I think it's clear that Miami is making him a priority.

As for the MLE, we'd have to be operating over the cap prior to FA to qualify. Since we will have cap space that's why the path to any of these scenarios is using everyone's bird rights to go over the cap and offer these type of deals. It's going to be a strange offseason for many teams with plenty of movement & awkward contract situations.
User avatar
dean456
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,781
And1: 3,056
Joined: Jul 04, 2017
 

Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#128 » by dean456 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:41 pm

DayofMourning wrote:
MartyCONLONNN wrote:
DayofMourning wrote:
Squad is basically unattainable. How do we add Lowry and Ibaka, while also keeping Jae and Dragic? We've got ~$30 mil this off-season. Each one of those deserves a $15 mil per year deal.


It isn't unattainable at all. You match Lowry's salary with KO/Iggy/Nunn a 1st. then sign Ibaka and use bird right to sign 1 year deals to Dragic & Crowder. The Ibaka part is a little tricky because he may want a longer deal. but Lowry is just a simple salary exchange trade. while retaining the cap space we already had. But yeah, the notion that both of them want to be here was brought up by Clutch & Co. Very feasible but Ibaka part is a total mystery to me.


Okay. Lowry to Miami seems pretty unrealistic. By trading him, you basically are resetting. I will believe that when I see it.

I think you could get Dragic on a team friendly deal, but nothing crazy. I still think he gets $15 million. Jae is going to want years.

Say the mind boggling trade of Lowry went down, and the other two guys signed for $15 million per. Would we then be able to use a MLE?


Something I think people underestimate about Crowder in Miami. He's been a journeymen and been traded 6 times in 7 years. He's also by far had his most productive year or half year with Miami shooting 48% and 44% from 3 after having a career shooting around 38-42% and 32-33% from 3 everywhere else. I think Crowder sees the value of being here and knows that he's appreciated here which is something he'd value.

Income taxes also matter in these negotiations. I've only done quick online research for this so take this with a grain of salt but in Toronto they are taxed 50-53% of their income when earning above 1mil per year. In other states in America its much lower at like 5-13% but in Florida, Texas and Washington its 0%. So teams like Houston, San Antonio, Dallas, Washington, Miami and Orlando have an advantage when it comes to offering lower contracts.

This is a another big part of why I question Giannis having interest in Toronto as a free agent destination. Giannis would be taxed 53.4% of his income in Toronto I believe so a 37.5mil max would cost him $20,039,344 in tax compared to $0 in Miami.
User avatar
dean456
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,781
And1: 3,056
Joined: Jul 04, 2017
 

Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#129 » by dean456 » Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:58 pm

I think in 2020 we split our 30mil in cap space between Ibaka and Dragic on 1yr deals at around 15mil each or spilt it however you can to make both players happy. Then sign Crowder to a 4yr MLE (10mil contract). Then re-sign DJJr over the cap to use him in a trade for Lowry.

DJJr, Nunn, Iggy and 2020 pick for Lowry.

2020
Lowry/Dragic
Butler/Herro
Robinson/Crowder
Ibaka/Okpala
Bam/???

Then in 2021, you let Ibaka walk, and because you gave Dragic a big deal and traded for Lowry essentially doubling his salary by getting him out of Toronto's tax bracket try and resign them for about 4mil deals each since they'll both be 35yo and then offer Giannis a max. Then go over the cap to sign Bam to a max and sign Duncan at about 15mil per year. Brings our total salary to roughly 152.7mil taking us only 1.7mil over the luxury tax threshold.

2021
Lowry/Dragic
Butler/Herro
Robinson/Crowder
Giannis/Okpala
Bam/???
User avatar
DayofMourning
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 20,917
And1: 53,362
Joined: Jan 03, 2006
       

Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#130 » by DayofMourning » Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:14 pm

dean456 wrote:
DayofMourning wrote:
MartyCONLONNN wrote:
It isn't unattainable at all. You match Lowry's salary with KO/Iggy/Nunn a 1st. then sign Ibaka and use bird right to sign 1 year deals to Dragic & Crowder. The Ibaka part is a little tricky because he may want a longer deal. but Lowry is just a simple salary exchange trade. while retaining the cap space we already had. But yeah, the notion that both of them want to be here was brought up by Clutch & Co. Very feasible but Ibaka part is a total mystery to me.


Okay. Lowry to Miami seems pretty unrealistic. By trading him, you basically are resetting. I will believe that when I see it.

I think you could get Dragic on a team friendly deal, but nothing crazy. I still think he gets $15 million. Jae is going to want years.

Say the mind boggling trade of Lowry went down, and the other two guys signed for $15 million per. Would we then be able to use a MLE?


Something I think people underestimate about Crowder in Miami. He's been a journeymen and been traded 6 times in 7 years. He's also by far had his most productive year or half year with Miami shooting 48% and 44% from 3 after having a career shooting around 38-42% and 32-33% from 3 everywhere else. I think Crowder sees the value of being here and knows that he's appreciated here which is something he'd value.

Income taxes also matter in these negotiations. I've only done quick online research for this so take this with a grain of salt but in Toronto they are taxed 50-53% of their income when earning above 1mil per year. In other states in America its much lower at like 5-13% but in Florida, Texas and Washington its 0%. So teams like Houston, San Antonio, Dallas, Washington, Miami and Orlando have an advantage when it comes to offering lower contracts.

This is a another big part of why I question Giannis having interest in Toronto as a free agent destination. Giannis would be taxed 53.4% of his income in Toronto I believe so a 37.5mil max would cost him $20,039,344 in tax compared to $0 in Miami.


I've never heard this before. If so, that's a crazy amount of money lost. Will have to look that up.
Image

Your 2020 Dunk Contest Champion-Derrick Jones Jr!
User avatar
DayofMourning
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 20,917
And1: 53,362
Joined: Jan 03, 2006
       

Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#131 » by DayofMourning » Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:20 pm

MartyCONLONNN wrote:
DayofMourning wrote:
MartyCONLONNN wrote:
It isn't unattainable at all. You match Lowry's salary with KO/Iggy/Nunn a 1st. then sign Ibaka and use bird right to sign 1 year deals to Dragic & Crowder. The Ibaka part is a little tricky because he may want a longer deal. but Lowry is just a simple salary exchange trade. while retaining the cap space we already had. But yeah, the notion that both of them want to be here was brought up by Clutch & Co. Very feasible but Ibaka part is a total mystery to me.


Okay. Lowry to Miami seems pretty unrealistic. By trading him, you basically are resetting. I will believe that when I see it.

I think you could get Dragic on a team friendly deal, but nothing crazy. I still think he gets $15 million. Jae is going to want years.

Say the mind boggling trade of Lowry went down, and the other two guys signed for $15 million per. Would we then be able to use a MLE?


Raptors are essentially in a reset regardless this offseason with 4 of their key players being UFA and only being in position to keep FVV if they still want a shot at Giannis (and we all know FVV will be very expensive). Losing all those guys, the Raptors know they aren't contending next season to keep that 2021 flexibility so that's where the Lowry chatter is coming from. And it makes sense if you look at the numbers.

The market is going to be very thin this summer which is why we're hearing so much talk about these balloon 1 year deals. Maybe Jae likes it enough here where he will take a deal like that. The way he is performing here isn't anywhere near the player he's been for the past 3 years so I'd be cautious assuming other teams feel they can replicate the way production/fit in Miami and giving him several years. We'll see but I think it's clear that Miami is making him a priority.

As for the MLE, we'd have to be operating over the cap prior to FA to qualify. Since we will have cap space that's why the path to any of these scenarios is using everyone's bird rights to go over the cap and offer these type of deals. It's going to be a strange offseason for many teams with plenty of movement & awkward contract situations.


So, if we can't use the MLE, Toronto would have to sign and trade Ibaka?
Image

Your 2020 Dunk Contest Champion-Derrick Jones Jr!
User avatar
Wiltside
Forum Mod - Heat
Forum Mod - Heat
Posts: 10,141
And1: 39,017
Joined: Sep 16, 2016

Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#132 » by Wiltside » Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:25 pm

DayofMourning wrote:
MartyCONLONNN wrote:
DayofMourning wrote:
Okay. Lowry to Miami seems pretty unrealistic. By trading him, you basically are resetting. I will believe that when I see it.

I think you could get Dragic on a team friendly deal, but nothing crazy. I still think he gets $15 million. Jae is going to want years.

Say the mind boggling trade of Lowry went down, and the other two guys signed for $15 million per. Would we then be able to use a MLE?


Raptors are essentially in a reset regardless this offseason with 4 of their key players being UFA and only being in position to keep FVV if they still want a shot at Giannis (and we all know FVV will be very expensive). Losing all those guys, the Raptors know they aren't contending next season to keep that 2021 flexibility so that's where the Lowry chatter is coming from. And it makes sense if you look at the numbers.

The market is going to be very thin this summer which is why we're hearing so much talk about these balloon 1 year deals. Maybe Jae likes it enough here where he will take a deal like that. The way he is performing here isn't anywhere near the player he's been for the past 3 years so I'd be cautious assuming other teams feel they can replicate the way production/fit in Miami and giving him several years. We'll see but I think it's clear that Miami is making him a priority.

As for the MLE, we'd have to be operating over the cap prior to FA to qualify. Since we will have cap space that's why the path to any of these scenarios is using everyone's bird rights to go over the cap and offer these type of deals. It's going to be a strange offseason for many teams with plenty of movement & awkward contract situations.


So, if we can't use the MLE, Toronto would have to sign and trade Ibaka?


Kelly in T-Dot seems like destiny at some point. Maple dick deserves the home grown love.

There's no doubt adding Lowry and Ibaka for 2021 would put us firmly in the Championship conversation again. Need to maintain 2021 flexibility though, and I think Serge could get multi year deals at plenty of contenders if he desired.
Formerly BG44, MB30 and Wade County at BasketballForum.com
User avatar
DayofMourning
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 20,917
And1: 53,362
Joined: Jan 03, 2006
       

Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#133 » by DayofMourning » Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:29 pm

Here ya go!

Image

Win a chip this year.

Win a chip with the Toronto players next year.

Sign Giannis, AD, Kawhi, Gobert, etc. and win a chip for the next few years.

Easy stuff fellas.
Image

Your 2020 Dunk Contest Champion-Derrick Jones Jr!
dshearn
Junior
Posts: 394
And1: 747
Joined: Nov 01, 2010
 

Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#134 » by dshearn » Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:39 pm

dean456 wrote:
DayofMourning wrote:
MartyCONLONNN wrote:
It isn't unattainable at all. You match Lowry's salary with KO/Iggy/Nunn a 1st. then sign Ibaka and use bird right to sign 1 year deals to Dragic & Crowder. The Ibaka part is a little tricky because he may want a longer deal. but Lowry is just a simple salary exchange trade. while retaining the cap space we already had. But yeah, the notion that both of them want to be here was brought up by Clutch & Co. Very feasible but Ibaka part is a total mystery to me.


Okay. Lowry to Miami seems pretty unrealistic. By trading him, you basically are resetting. I will believe that when I see it.

I think you could get Dragic on a team friendly deal, but nothing crazy. I still think he gets $15 million. Jae is going to want years.

Say the mind boggling trade of Lowry went down, and the other two guys signed for $15 million per. Would we then be able to use a MLE?


Something I think people underestimate about Crowder in Miami. He's been a journeymen and been traded 6 times in 7 years. He's also by far had his most productive year or half year with Miami shooting 48% and 44% from 3 after having a career shooting around 38-42% and 32-33% from 3 everywhere else. I think Crowder sees the value of being here and knows that he's appreciated here which is something he'd value.

Income taxes also matter in these negotiations. I've only done quick online research for this so take this with a grain of salt but in Toronto they are taxed 50-53% of their income when earning above 1mil per year. In other states in America its much lower at like 5-13% but in Florida, Texas and Washington its 0%. So teams like Houston, San Antonio, Dallas, Washington, Miami and Orlando have an advantage when it comes to offering lower contracts.

This is a another big part of why I question Giannis having interest in Toronto as a free agent destination. Giannis would be taxed 53.4% of his income in Toronto I believe so a 37.5mil max would cost him $20,039,344 in tax compared to $0 in Miami.

i researched this the other day. I am not a tax guy, and the guy who wrote a pretty in-depth article about it was basically talking about how Kawi took home major bucks with the clippers even tho his salary was lower.

The Federal income tax, off sets the CAN tax to a degree. Plus their is "jock tax" You pay state tax from the state you play in. That use to be off set by Federal (again to a degree), but is no longer off set. So the effective difference between California and Florida is between 8% and 13%. I cant exactly remember the tax on bonuses, but I think Cali is 15%. The effective difference between the Raptors and the Heat is 15% to 18%. The reason the value changes is the States you play games in. One game in Cali? You pay tax on that income in California.
User avatar
MartyCONLONNN
Veteran
Posts: 2,642
And1: 1,574
Joined: Dec 01, 2009

Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#135 » by MartyCONLONNN » Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:41 pm

DayofMourning wrote:
MartyCONLONNN wrote:
DayofMourning wrote:
Okay. Lowry to Miami seems pretty unrealistic. By trading him, you basically are resetting. I will believe that when I see it.

I think you could get Dragic on a team friendly deal, but nothing crazy. I still think he gets $15 million. Jae is going to want years.

Say the mind boggling trade of Lowry went down, and the other two guys signed for $15 million per. Would we then be able to use a MLE?


Raptors are essentially in a reset regardless this offseason with 4 of their key players being UFA and only being in position to keep FVV if they still want a shot at Giannis (and we all know FVV will be very expensive). Losing all those guys, the Raptors know they aren't contending next season to keep that 2021 flexibility so that's where the Lowry chatter is coming from. And it makes sense if you look at the numbers.

The market is going to be very thin this summer which is why we're hearing so much talk about these balloon 1 year deals. Maybe Jae likes it enough here where he will take a deal like that. The way he is performing here isn't anywhere near the player he's been for the past 3 years so I'd be cautious assuming other teams feel they can replicate the way production/fit in Miami and giving him several years. We'll see but I think it's clear that Miami is making him a priority.

As for the MLE, we'd have to be operating over the cap prior to FA to qualify. Since we will have cap space that's why the path to any of these scenarios is using everyone's bird rights to go over the cap and offer these type of deals. It's going to be a strange offseason for many teams with plenty of movement & awkward contract situations.


So, if we can't use the MLE, Toronto would have to sign and trade Ibaka?


Nope. In this hypothetical we would still have all our cap space because our space wouldn't go towards Lowry bc the trade would be a salary match. So replace KO & Iggys 2021 expirings for Lowrys salary (add Nunn, picks, KZ whatever other compensation Toronto is looking for. And then you still have cap space to play with for Ibaka and then go over the cap for bird rights deals on Dragic & Crowder. I think you definitely lose DJJ in this scenario.

But yes we could technically just give up our cheap assets and take on Lowry into space while keeping Iggy. Then try to deal KO separately opening up ~12M & try to fit Ibaka in that way then proceed to go over the cap for Dragic & Crowder as stated before. There are a couple avenues. Again, just stating that it's very plausible within the cap rules + this is just cursory evaluation from mself... we have Andy working magic with all these numbers and flexibility. This is just off of some noise the guys at 5 reasons are hearing so take it with a grain of salt. I love the idea.
User avatar
DayofMourning
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 20,917
And1: 53,362
Joined: Jan 03, 2006
       

Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#136 » by DayofMourning » Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:46 pm

Wiltside wrote:Kelly in T-Dot seems like destiny at some point. Maple dick deserves the home grown love.

There's no doubt adding Lowry and Ibaka for 2021 would put us firmly in the Championship conversation again. Need to maintain 2021 flexibility though, and I think Serge could get multi year deals at plenty of contenders if he desired.


Was looking at our 2021 salaries:

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/miami-heat/cap/2021/

We have $63,800,000 in salary at this point. $15 million of that is Iguodala. If you just swap Iggy for Serge at that salary, then you still have (prospectively) $51 million in cap space. Then you add in Jae, and it likely goes down to $36 million in space. That doesn't account for the return of Dragic or Lowry (if you've acquired him).

That basically allows you to match other destinations who have state taxes when it comes to the most money per year. The max for most of these guys is going to top out at approximately $40 million per year starting. $36 million with no state taxes matches that.

Who's getting it though? Giannis is staying in Milwaukee. AD is staying with Lebron.

Kawhi. Gobert. That's it for the other "max" guys. I'd pay Kawhi that in a second. Would pay it to Gobert very reluctantly.
Image

Your 2020 Dunk Contest Champion-Derrick Jones Jr!
User avatar
DayofMourning
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 20,917
And1: 53,362
Joined: Jan 03, 2006
       

Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#137 » by DayofMourning » Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:02 am

MartyCONLONNN wrote:Nope. In this hypothetical we would still have all our cap space because our space wouldn't go towards Lowry bc the trade would be a salary match. So replace KO & Iggys 2021 expirings for Lowrys salary (add Nunn, picks, KZ whatever other compensation Toronto is looking for. And then you still have cap space to play with for Ibaka and then go over the cap for bird rights deals on Dragic & Crowder. I think you definitely lose DJJ in this scenario.

But yes we could technically just give up our cheap assets and take on Lowry into space while keeping Iggy. Then try to deal KO separately opening up ~12M & try to fit Ibaka in that way then proceed to go over the cap for Dragic & Crowder as stated before. There are a couple avenues. Again, just stating that it's very plausible within the cap rules + this is just cursory evaluation from mself... we have Andy working magic with all these numbers and flexibility. This is just off of some noise the guys at 5 reasons are hearing so take it with a grain of salt. I love the idea.


I mean, if it's possible, I'm down with it.

You replace Nunn with Lowry....That's just a crazy increase in overall productivity.

Lowry vs Nunn 2020

Just look at the ORating/DRating disparity. Lowry is a plus ten, and Nunn is a minus ten or so.

Serge gives you increased rebounding and interior defense. Can't shoot the ball quite as well as Kelly, but he's no slouch.

Serge vs Kelly 2020

Similar impact for these two, but once again, rebouding and interior defense.
Image

Your 2020 Dunk Contest Champion-Derrick Jones Jr!
User avatar
BenoUdrihFTL
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,998
And1: 10,030
Joined: Feb 20, 2013
Location: Wish.com customer support
 

Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#138 » by BenoUdrihFTL » Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:39 am

I'd take Lowry & Ibaka over some pseudo-whale like Dipo in a heartbeat. Said it a few times Ibaka would be perfect with Bam and address our inside issue, and Lowry is Lowry. Perfect fit with his boy Yimmy and addresses our small guard defensive problem. Plus we get to keep Dragon & Bae? This is the no-brainer of no-brainers
1.61803398874989484820458683436563811772030917980576286
2135448622705260462818902449707207
204189391137484754088
0753868917521
26633862
22353
693
User avatar
dean456
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,781
And1: 3,056
Joined: Jul 04, 2017
 

Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#139 » by dean456 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:01 am

dshearn wrote:
dean456 wrote:
DayofMourning wrote:
Okay. Lowry to Miami seems pretty unrealistic. By trading him, you basically are resetting. I will believe that when I see it.

I think you could get Dragic on a team friendly deal, but nothing crazy. I still think he gets $15 million. Jae is going to want years.

Say the mind boggling trade of Lowry went down, and the other two guys signed for $15 million per. Would we then be able to use a MLE?


Something I think people underestimate about Crowder in Miami. He's been a journeymen and been traded 6 times in 7 years. He's also by far had his most productive year or half year with Miami shooting 48% and 44% from 3 after having a career shooting around 38-42% and 32-33% from 3 everywhere else. I think Crowder sees the value of being here and knows that he's appreciated here which is something he'd value.

Income taxes also matter in these negotiations. I've only done quick online research for this so take this with a grain of salt but in Toronto they are taxed 50-53% of their income when earning above 1mil per year. In other states in America its much lower at like 5-13% but in Florida, Texas and Washington its 0%. So teams like Houston, San Antonio, Dallas, Washington, Miami and Orlando have an advantage when it comes to offering lower contracts.

This is a another big part of why I question Giannis having interest in Toronto as a free agent destination. Giannis would be taxed 53.4% of his income in Toronto I believe so a 37.5mil max would cost him $20,039,344 in tax compared to $0 in Miami.

i researched this the other day. I am not a tax guy, and the guy who wrote a pretty in-depth article about it was basically talking about how Kawi took home major bucks with the clippers even tho his salary was lower.

The Federal income tax, off sets the CAN tax to a degree. Plus their is "jock tax" You pay state tax from the state you play in. That use to be off set by Federal (again to a degree), but is no longer off set. So the effective difference between California and Florida is between 8% and 13%. I cant exactly remember the tax on bonuses, but I think Cali is 15%. The effective difference between the Raptors and the Heat is 15% to 18%. The reason the value changes is the States you play games in. One game in Cali? You pay tax on that income in California.


Okay so would that mean that Toronto players are taxed 53% of their home games which would be 41/82 games which would make it 10mil less than what Miami could offer for someone like Giannis?
User avatar
DayofMourning
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 20,917
And1: 53,362
Joined: Jan 03, 2006
       

Re: Miami Heat Speculation Thread - 2020 and beyond... 

Post#140 » by DayofMourning » Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:15 am

Deepest team I've seen if we do T Dot 2020 and Whale Hunt 2021.
Image

Your 2020 Dunk Contest Champion-Derrick Jones Jr!

Return to Miami Heat