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Goodbye pre-season! 2020-2021 regular season thread

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Re: Goodbye pre-season! 2020-2021 regular season thread 

Post#461 » by MiamiLoyal926 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:40 pm

Did all of you who are upset about missing out on Harden see that it is being reported that Ben Simmons, Thybulle, and picks was offered by the sixers? The Rockets chose what they wanted to choose. If that was the cost for the Sixers, and it took 8 picks plus lavert and Allen to get Harden, then our cost would have been way to steep. Stop losing sleep over this one. Getting fleeced sucks, so be glad we didn’t and that we still have flexibility to find a better situation for us.
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Re: Goodbye pre-season! 2020-2021 regular season thread 

Post#462 » by HeatingUp3 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:05 pm

puppa bear wrote:
MettaWorldPanda wrote:KO, Iggy, Nunn, KZ and any picks we can throw in for Dipo and Tucker. I like Tucker in the Crowder role from last year.

Not sure why all the PJ love. We could probably use the TPE to swing for someone like Noel or RoLo at the deadline if we still need post help.

I’d start with Iggy/Nunn/pick for Dipo and see where negotiations go from there - he has market of basically one team, so for Houston it’s basically get what you can.


Yea i like this trade. Houston will do it cuz they gonna lose him in 5 months. I don't like PJ. Really overrated in here.
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Re: Goodbye pre-season! 2020-2021 regular season thread 

Post#463 » by Jinsaryko » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:20 pm

You know what, go after Dipo. See what Houston wants. If its too much, just wait till offseason and try that way. Its time we start going after people who actually wants to be here then put our hopes on whales like Beal.
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Re: Goodbye pre-season! 2020-2021 regular season thread 

Post#464 » by Dr_Heat » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:31 pm

Bourne85 wrote:Last seasons bubble miracle has a lot of your opinions on this team and these players very diluted. We aren’t contenders, not at all.

Nothing has changed, we are still a treadmill team only we got worse this season and the Nets just got a big 3. Bucks have a damn good trio as well. 76ers are also a problem.

Like it or not, we are no where near these teams as contenders. We had a miracle run in the bubble and came crashing down to earth when AD and Lebron showed up.

League of Super stars and we don’t have the talent to contend.

IMO it’s time to blow it up. But I’m sure u guys are happy as 4-8th seed and only a matter of time you run into a team with real stars and then it’s over like last season.

Teams got better and we got worse. And now Bam got his bag. Next up D Rob n Herro for bags. We in no mans land


This man speaks the truth
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Re: Goodbye pre-season! 2020-2021 regular season thread 

Post#465 » by AirP. » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:58 pm

MiamiLoyal926 wrote:Did all of you who are upset about missing out on Harden see that it is being reported that Ben Simmons, Thybulle, and picks was offered by the sixers? The Rockets chose what they wanted to choose. If that was the cost for the Sixers, and it took 8 picks plus lavert and Allen to get Harden, then our cost would have been way to steep. Stop losing sleep over this one. Getting fleeced sucks, so be glad we didn’t and that we still have flexibility to find a better situation for us.


You think Brooklyn got fleeced? Personally I don't consider late 1st round picks really worth all that much, once you get in the 20s it's a crap shoot, some years you can find good players in the early 20s, some years not so much.

Looking at what Brooklyn gave up...
* Unprotected 1sts - 2022, 2024, 2026 - 2022 and 2024 probably will be late 1sts, 2026 has a chance of being decent to a great pick.
* Swap 1sts - 2021, 2023, 2025, 2027 - 2021 and 2023 probably no swap happens, maybe 2025 and 2027 could happen.
* Traded 2 good younger players in LeVert and Allen. KD wanted his buddy D.Jordan starting and now he has that. I'm not so sure Brooklyn was going to pay Allen to keep him this summer. LeVert is good but he is also a health risk, it's why he dropped in the draft and we've seen him miss a lot of time in the NBA.

So from my perspective the only real value Brooklyn gave up was 2 unprotected 1st round picks in 2024, 2026, swaps in 2025 and 2027, and 2 good young players in LeVert and Allen for 2 or more years of a MVP caliber players. Who knows how good those swaps will be, if Houston isn't good in 2025 or 2027 it may not hurt Brooklyn all that much to swap down.

Also, I think KD and Harden will be good into their mid maybe late 30s, Kryie probably isn't there much longer, could be gone this year, could be gone in the next 2 years.

I guess it all depends on what you think Brooklyn will look like in 4 years vs what Houston will look like in 4 years, I'd think Brooklyn (who just landed 2 top tier FA last year) will continue to be able to restock at least decent talent in FA.

Houston should have gotten Simmons from the 76ers, showcased him as the main guy for a year and then sold high on him in a year or 2.
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Re: Goodbye pre-season! 2020-2021 regular season thread 

Post#466 » by HIF » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:10 pm

BFRESH44 wrote:Some of ya'll are soft as hell man. Pack it up. Acting like you haven't ever seen the Heat win a championship before lol

We were in the goddamn NBA Bubble Finals 4 months ago. This team is fun, and we have some good ass pieces. Sheesh.


It's amazing the crying I'm listening to.

Chances that we got Harden or any whale were small and only exist because we have Riley and a class organisation. We had an incredible run last year and many of you thought "running it back" was a decent idea.

Anyone would think that we hadn't recently killed the league with our own mega team. Damn think of those franchises who have never won a title, and then those who have never even been to a finals.
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Re: Goodbye pre-season! 2020-2021 regular season thread 

Post#467 » by HIF » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:13 pm

AirP. wrote:
twix2500 wrote:
AirP. wrote:What?

You have Herro and Robinson guarding 2 of Kyrie, Harden or J.Harris. Also I don't think any 4 is really going to be able to slow down KD.

It is not only about one on one defense. Got to improve the defense overall, make plays as a team as well as one on one. The only way to possible have a chance is to be a top five defensive team. Do not forget the Heat have Bradley who is starting quality defender. Got to get another starting quality defender who not a liability on the court. Draymond and Porter Jr (At least he use too) can defend multiple positions 1 - 5 (small 5). Also got to relieve defensive responsibilities from Butler as much as possible so the can have energy to uplift the offense.


So you're good with Robinson and Herro and their team defense against a team with 3 incredible scorers, a great 3pt shooter and a power low post player(who won't shoot unless he has a dunk)?

Also, there is nobody who can really guard KD since he can just shoot over Miami's small bigs where you need to help try to keep the ball from getting to him, now, if you're cheating off to try to help stop KD from getting the pass another great scorer could get even more space.

I would have moved Bam to get Harden just to stop him from going to Brooklyn.

Who knows, maybe Miami will trade for PJ Tucker now. Even if they got Tucker and say a DeRozan or Aldridge or Lowry that team isn't really a threat to beat the Nets unless they have injuries.


Don't top yourself man.

Do you really think that it is your right to support a team that is destined to win every championship?

Who knows how Brooklyn will do? It may collapse badly, there may be injuries, the season may be halted and cancelled.

Personally I'd rather Brooklyn won the title than Lebron.
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Re: Goodbye pre-season! 2020-2021 regular season thread 

Post#468 » by HIF » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:28 pm

shanedude wrote:We'll be fine. Excited to see us take it to the Nets. Besides we've beaten KD and Harden before ;)


Yeah.

And not beating them this year is not a biggie is it? Hopefully we are just going to be better next year and the year after etc...
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Re: Goodbye pre-season! 2020-2021 regular season thread 

Post#469 » by HIF » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:29 pm

Cmon_Son-_- wrote:At this point I'd take a decent big.


My wife has the same opinion.
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Re: Goodbye pre-season! 2020-2021 regular season thread 

Post#470 » by HIF » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:30 pm

Cmon_Son-_- wrote:
RexBoyWonder wrote:I'm more upset about not getting Christian Wood for like 10 Mil in free agency then I am about not gutting current team and our future for Harden.

Waiting for Giannis killed us.


Those are the choices.
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Re: Goodbye pre-season! 2020-2021 regular season thread 

Post#471 » by HIF » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:38 pm

Bourne85 wrote:Last seasons bubble miracle has a lot of your opinions on this team and these players very diluted. We aren’t contenders, not at all.

Nothing has changed, we are still a treadmill team only we got worse this season and the Nets just got a big 3. Bucks have a damn good trio as well. 76ers are also a problem.

Like it or not, we are no where near these teams as contenders. We had a miracle run in the bubble and came crashing down to earth when AD and Lebron showed up.

League of Super stars and we don’t have the talent to contend.

IMO it’s time to blow it up. But I’m sure u guys are happy as 4-8th seed and only a matter of time you run into a team with real stars and then it’s over like last season.

Teams got better and we got worse. And now Bam got his bag. Next up D Rob n Herro for bags. We in no mans land


We have so many entitled fans.
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Re: Goodbye pre-season! 2020-2021 regular season thread 

Post#472 » by HIF » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:46 pm

AirP. wrote:
Wiltside wrote:Tbh we didn’t really give away any real assets when trading for Butler. Yeah we dealt JRich, but we got a significant upgrade in JB.

I’m not chicken littleing, but we definitely need to make a deal that improves the ceiling of this team. We need some size with shooting ability. Perhaps that means we target Vucevic or someone along those lines.

You forgot that a 1st round pick was also sent out to make the money work. If this team was going to just not make big moves, why not keep Richardson, the first, let Whiteside walk, not move Winslow. Would the future for this team be brighter with those 2 players (Richardson and WInslow), the 1st rounder and maybe add a starter in FA vs having Butler for 3 more years?

The issue with Butler isn't how good he is, it's his age with him being 31, he's got a small window and Miami has made very few moves to take advantage of adding a star near the end of his prime.


You just told me that Brooklyn have a 4 year window. Aren't KD and Harden older than JB?
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Re: Goodbye pre-season! 2020-2021 regular season thread 

Post#473 » by HIF » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:49 pm

twix2500 wrote:
Bourne85 wrote:Oladipo isn’t good enough. The heat need a whale not a sardine
There are no more Whales left. K. Leonard is not an option for the Heat.

Oladipo definitely alone is not enough but if they could also add a high quality lengthy defensive four it with Oladipo it may be so. Definitely would my them a hard battle against any team.

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There are always Whales in the ocean you just don't know they are available.
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Re: Goodbye pre-season! 2020-2021 regular season thread 

Post#474 » by HIF » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:49 pm

El Alonzo scowl wrote:I'd go all in for Bradley Beal. Jimmy, Beal, and Bam as our Big 3 can mount a credible challenge to BK's.


and Beasley.

Killer B's.
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Re: Goodbye pre-season! 2020-2021 regular season thread 

Post#475 » by AirP. » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:52 pm

HIF wrote:
AirP. wrote:
So you're good with Robinson and Herro and their team defense against a team with 3 incredible scorers, a great 3pt shooter and a power low post player(who won't shoot unless he has a dunk)?

Also, there is nobody who can really guard KD since he can just shoot over Miami's small bigs where you need to help try to keep the ball from getting to him, now, if you're cheating off to try to help stop KD from getting the pass another great scorer could get even more space.

I would have moved Bam to get Harden just to stop him from going to Brooklyn.

Who knows, maybe Miami will trade for PJ Tucker now. Even if they got Tucker and say a DeRozan or Aldridge or Lowry that team isn't really a threat to beat the Nets unless they have injuries.


Don't top yourself man.

Do you really think that it is your right to support a team that is destined to win every championship?

Who knows how Brooklyn will do? It may collapse badly, there may be injuries, the season may be halted and cancelled.

Personally I'd rather Brooklyn won the title than Lebron.


Some teams are fine with being good and hope to peak at some point to challenge for a championship, I thought Miami wasn't in that small market/not a FA destination mind frame. I think each franchise has their own expectations and while everyone wants to win championships, most prioritize just wanting to be competitive and keep their revenue flowing.

I really dislike the Lakers but they're focused on winning championships(after a while of not being), who were they really competing with to trade for AD, nobody, they could have waited for him for "cap space" in free agency in 1 year but they didn't wait, they sent out really good talent to acquire AD a year early, Ingram is a max contract young player now and Ball and Hart are good younger players and who really cares about the picks because they'll reload in FA and trades.

It's really simple, the easiest and most constant way to win championships is by having top tier talent. In a couple of years Butler will no longer be near a top tier talent although he can still be a good player in his mid 30s, he has to work way too hard to be a high level player while others like KD or LeBron are just physical monsters for the roles they play and should/are good into their mid and late 30s. Butler's high impact window is small now, basically in a few years Miami will downgrade from a near top tier player to just a good player in Butler, so if Herro becomes a top 20 guy(which I'm not sure he ever cracks the top 30), Miami will be at basically same level as they currently are, a competitive but not favorite in the East. The bubble had a lot to do with the younger players doing well on away games not having to deal with hostile fans which was a big advantage for Miami since they leaned on key young players who have never dealt with playoffs on the road in Bam, Robinson, and Herro.
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Re: Goodbye pre-season! 2020-2021 regular season thread 

Post#476 » by HIF » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:54 pm

RexBoyWonder wrote:
insfo wrote:
Wiltside wrote:If you’d rather have Rich, Winslow and a first right now over Jimmy, I’m not sure what else to tell you.

Jimmy raised the ceiling of this team. As did moving Hassan to allow Bam to thrive. Our plan became unstuck via COVID, but let’s give the FO the benefit of the doubt that moves will be made. I’m sure they know we don’t have enough to compete with the big boys right now. Butler is 31, he still has a few high level years left.


I don't think that's what AirP is saying. He's a Butler fan, so he's frustrated that we don't seem to be putting in the effort to build around him. Maybe he feels Butler might have fared better if he stayed in Philly or gone to a different team?

Anyway, we've all been there during the Wade years, just before the big 3 formed. Wade was in his prime, but Riles was surrounding him with the likes of Diawara, Beasley and similar crap. That definitely is not the case here since we just went to the finals, so that should mean something to Butler since he had not made it out of the second round in his career until he came here. But that I'm sure has us all wanting more, since we only seemed to be a piece (or 2) away.

All that said, I'm definitely not throwing in the towel just because we didn't land Harden. I know on paper Brooklyn look formidable, but we all know that the games are played on the court and anything can happen in a series. This might be the fan in my talking, but I still fancy us against any team in the east in a 7 game series. At least as soon as we get over whatever funk we seem to be in now :(


Most of us agree we're a piece ,away but we have ways to Add that piece. Ways that don't include gutting the most fun young team we had in 20 years.

So the asking price for Harden was too high for Pat, that should tell us something, knowing his track record.

We'll have serious cap space this offseason, Oladipo and a few others might really fit here and be attainable.

There will also be more stars on the trading block, like always. Maybe younger ones then Harden, maybe ones that fit the culture and playing style better.

We need to be smart and make the right move, not just rush into the first splashy move that pops up.

Let's see what the FO does this next year to add the piece or 2 Pieces we seem to be missing.


We are at best a piece away from contending, It's far from a lock that we can win a championship even with a piece. I'd have taken Harden but I wouldn't have made us favourites for a title this year even with him.
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Re: Goodbye pre-season! 2020-2021 regular season thread 

Post#477 » by AirP. » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:58 pm

HIF wrote:
AirP. wrote:
Wiltside wrote:Tbh we didn’t really give away any real assets when trading for Butler. Yeah we dealt JRich, but we got a significant upgrade in JB.

I’m not chicken littleing, but we definitely need to make a deal that improves the ceiling of this team. We need some size with shooting ability. Perhaps that means we target Vucevic or someone along those lines.

You forgot that a 1st round pick was also sent out to make the money work. If this team was going to just not make big moves, why not keep Richardson, the first, let Whiteside walk, not move Winslow. Would the future for this team be brighter with those 2 players (Richardson and WInslow), the 1st rounder and maybe add a starter in FA vs having Butler for 3 more years?

The issue with Butler isn't how good he is, it's his age with him being 31, he's got a small window and Miami has made very few moves to take advantage of adding a star near the end of his prime.


You just told me that Brooklyn have a 4 year window. Aren't KD and Harden older than JB?


No I didn't. Butler doesn't have incredible size or shooting ability(shooting is huge), his ability to be a dominate player is determined on how hard he works. KD is a 7 footer who is an incredible shooter and should be a dominate player into his mid 30s, possibly late 30s. Harden has an old man's game with a great shot, he should be a great scorer/facilitator into his mid 30s. Kyrie, yeah he's capped by his size and quickness, I'd worry about him around age 32 if he doesn't retire by then.

Age isn't the same for every player, some guys have abilities or strengths that can last deep into their 30s, the smaller players who's strengths are speed and quickness usually drop off quickly in their 30s.
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Re: Goodbye pre-season! 2020-2021 regular season thread 

Post#478 » by greg4012 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:58 pm

I'd love to add a whale. The issue is there are no likely whales in free agency. Maybe a distressed star seeks a trade, but damn do you all see what the trade market has turned into with draft picks? Do you really think we can field the best offer for a disgruntled Bradley Beal? Beal is currently leading the league in scoring. I fear we don't have the draft picks to win that sweepstakes.

Oladipo isn't a whale. But, he is all of these things which we can sorely use:

> another point of attack defender that can make plays on the defensive end and take the best opposing guard (we only have Bradley that can do this)
> another ballhandler
> another guy who can create his own offense (we are low on these guys and Dragic ain't getting younger)
> another 2-way player (our biggest struggle has been having too many guys that are good on offense or on defense, but not both).

Dipo would make us significantly better and can unlock more lineups with guys like Herro and Precious
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Re: Goodbye pre-season! 2020-2021 regular season thread 

Post#479 » by HIF » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:00 pm

Bourne85 wrote:
RexBoyWonder wrote:
Bourne85 wrote:
Only with Heat goggles on are having those role players better than having Harden. Harden Jimmy Bam could’ve been something, sadly, the Rockets didn’t like our role players and we moved on.

It‘a very simple and I have been saying it since I joined here, you either have a couple SUPER Stars or you have nothing. Just biding your time until you finally land the stars needed. A flukey miracle bubble run doesn’t change the formula that has worked since the NBA started

Stars league. You either got em or your treadmilling or tanking. Nothing more nothing less. Soon Drob making 15-20 per, Herro possible max from some dumb team forcing us to match. How’s our team looking at that point?

Today the entire East took an L and the heat look to have it the worst as we are the weakest of the eastern “contenders”. The East is now a two team show with the improved Bucks and the Big 3 Nets. Everyone else plays catch up.



Even if one subscribes to your point of view that stars > everything else, why assume we should pay ANY price for ANY star out there?

Harden is not the only star that is going to be traded in the next year. What if Beal costs less and is younger and a better fit? What if Herro and Bam make a jump into stardom next couple of years? Maybe a star demands to be traded here and by that lower his trading value?

I want us to have stars, but the question becomes who are the right stars for us, at what cost should we acquire them, how do they fit out timeline, what are the different ways to build a team around our stars.

Harden for many reasons just wasn't a great options for us. Maybe if Rockets really believed in Herro as the main piece a trade could have made sense, but we shouldn't overpay for every star out there ignoring the bigger picture. There will be options for us, hopefully better ones than what the Rockets demands were.

We all know Pat understands the importance of top talent. If he sees a deal he likes, he'll pull the trigger. Harden wasn't it, not for the asking price.


Agreed, but it’s not who are the right stars for us, it’s who are the stars and who are the pretenders. Oladipo is no star, paying him top dollar which he will want will be a mistake. Especially when Brooklyn has 3 real stars and our team wouldn’t stand a chance unless it’s miracle injuries like it happened for Toronto. Paying for a fake star like Griffin would be another terrible play.

Go get a Beal, Dame, or some other true star or reallllllyyy close to it on a losing team. We traded for Jimmy. We don’t have time to wait on Herro or Precious etc.

Unless you want to toss Jimmy out then and build around Bam n Herro. I’d be ok with that as well bring back some picks and a young talent. And play for the future. But you can’t play for both.


Perhaps you can get a job in the Miami FO. You talk such pessimistic BS. Can't you be happy with a team that tries hard, plays well and gives you excitement week in week out?
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Re: Goodbye pre-season! 2020-2021 regular season thread 

Post#480 » by HIF » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:03 pm

Dr_Heat wrote:
Bourne85 wrote:Last seasons bubble miracle has a lot of your opinions on this team and these players very diluted. We aren’t contenders, not at all.

Nothing has changed, we are still a treadmill team only we got worse this season and the Nets just got a big 3. Bucks have a damn good trio as well. 76ers are also a problem.

Like it or not, we are no where near these teams as contenders. We had a miracle run in the bubble and came crashing down to earth when AD and Lebron showed up.

League of Super stars and we don’t have the talent to contend.

IMO it’s time to blow it up. But I’m sure u guys are happy as 4-8th seed and only a matter of time you run into a team with real stars and then it’s over like last season.

Teams got better and we got worse. And now Bam got his bag. Next up D Rob n Herro for bags. We in no mans land


This man speaks the truth


when?
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