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canada_dry wrote:

twix2500 wrote:

canada_dry wrote:Raptor fan here. Lurking. Thought i could bring some perspective here, having seen him develop over the years n all.

The a answer is No. Absolutely not.

He doesn't have a playmaking bone in his body. He has a rare 3 assist game and it makes u go "Oh hey thats a bonus. Nice". What he excels at is finishing plays and creating for himself. Not making plays and creating for others.

Carry on...
Ok
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Thanks for the input, I have been doing some analysis on him for the past few days. Wasnt familiar with him but he has caught my attention in a some games with the Blazers especially in the playoffs. I see he is not a point guard, which is fine if his scoring still has potential to be even better and if he can help bring the ball up vs press defense. So I will keep watching him to see what his scoring potential may be.
Also if you can chime in on his defense? I reading a lot of praise from Portland about his defense.

So ideally the roles would be;

PG: Butler - Nunn - Oladipo
SG: Powell - Herro
SF: Robinson - Strus
PF: Nance - O. Porter - Okpala
Ce: Adebayo - Dedmon

Its all about perspective. The Raptors are a really good defensive team and a lot of times we viewed powell as a potential weak spot but thats only because he was an average to above average defender surrounded by good to great defenders. Hes fine defensively but prone to mental errors at times.

Now u add an above average defender to a team like the blazers who were all time bad defensively, and he looks like scottie pippen to that fanbase.

If that makes sense.

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Thanx

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Flash4thewin wrote:

twix2500 wrote:

BenoUdrihFTL wrote:Not sure all of these guys would sign for 20 or less but they should command at least 15:

Mike Conley
Kyle Lowry
DeMar DeRozan
Tim Hardaway Jr
Dennis Schroder (I'm not a fan)
Richaun Holmes (really like him)
Evan Fournier

Some less expensive guys who could help us:

Otto Porter Jr, Daniel Theis, Nerlens Noel, Derrick Rose, Doug McDermott, TJ McConnel, Nic Batum, Willy Hernangomez

All players listed are UFAs

I want to hear others opinion on this. What role players do you consider worth paying between 15 to 20 mill per year?

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20 mil wont get most of them and 20 is not a huge number anymore with the cap going up. A few years ago we didnt want to pay Wade a 50/20 deal but are now actively looking to do that for a 35 year old Lowry. 20+ is what the going rate for a starter is. I can see DeMar getting a 20 mil deal. Hardaway's contract will be in the 20's. With those prices i understand why Ball becomes an attractive option, why pay 25+ for Lowry when you can get Ball who is younger and getting better for around the same price and thats not even talking about his size and defense. And we havent even touched resigning our current players. We had no issue paying Andre 15 mil so that sounds like a good number for Dragic. Duncan will get what the market says he is worth, i'm thinking again 20 mil give or take a mil or two as his starting salary.

contract wrote:

twix2500 wrote:I want to hear others opinion on this. What role players do you consider worth paying between 15 to 20 mill per year?

Not much point in my answering ... since I can't imagine paying a role player that kind of money and not regretting it. Max contract money is defined as 25%, 30%, or 35% of the cap. Two of those plus a single $15 mil - $20 mil role player and you're capped out in a hurry. And having a "role player" as your 3rd best player is probably not going to get you where you want to go unless #1 and #2 are studs.

Thanks, I think its interesting to gauge how you all value role players and salaries. I kind of figure everyone have a unique value for role players. Contract seems to believe role players should minimum salary to MLE and stars above 20. Flash values role players between 15 to 25? Thats a huge difference in ideology.

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BenoUdrihFTL wrote:

twix2500 wrote:What roles do you guys think is worth signing between 15 and 20 mill per year?

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Not sure all of these guys would sign for 20 or less but they should command at least 15:

Mike Conley
Kyle Lowry
DeMar DeRozan
Tim Hardaway Jr
Dennis Schroder (I'm not a fan)
Richaun Holmes (really like him)
Evan Fournier

Some less expensive guys who could help us:

Otto Porter Jr, Daniel Theis, Nerlens Noel, Derrick Rose, Doug McDermott, TJ McConnel, Nic Batum, Willy Hernangomez

All players listed are UFAs

Conley is going to get more than $20M a season and will almost surely re-sign with Utah.

I like McDermott as a replacement for D Robinson, but I don't think Miami has any intention of letting Robinson go. There is every reason to believe Lowry is Miami's main target since he makes Miami less dependent on Dragic, makes Nunn expendable, and is an upgrade defensively for Miami; the question is how will Miami acquire him. It is hard to see Miami walking away from Oladipo, whose options are going to be slim. I'll bet they give him some sort of long-term security while giving themselves an opt-out or two. I also expect Miami to bring back Ariza.

Lowry - Dragic - Oladipo
Robinson - Herro
Butler - Iguodala
Ariza - Achiuwa
Bam -

Assuming the above is true, this leaves Miami with a glaring need for size. Theis, Mike Muscala, Cody Zeller, Noel, Paul Millsap, and Olynyk all make some sense. Dedmon earned another year and consistent minutes in my eyes. Dwight Howard, JaVale McGee, and Enes Kanter would bring a different dynamic to Miami. Robin Lopez has been solid for the Wizards. He'd also be worth a look.

Batum, Porter Jr, or Rudy Gay would allow Miami to move on from Iguodala.

I think there are some really cheap options Miami could look into:

Tony Snell
Solomon Hill
Jeff Green
Al-Farouq Aminu
Wayne Ellington
Georges Niang
Mike Scott

twix2500 wrote:

Flash4thewin wrote:

twix2500 wrote:I want to hear others opinion on this. What role players do you consider worth paying between 15 to 20 mill per year?

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20 mil wont get most of them and 20 is not a huge number anymore with the cap going up. A few years ago we didnt want to pay Wade a 50/20 deal but are now actively looking to do that for a 35 year old Lowry. 20+ is what the going rate for a starter is. I can see DeMar getting a 20 mil deal. Hardaway's contract will be in the 20's. With those prices i understand why Ball becomes an attractive option, why pay 25+ for Lowry when you can get Ball who is younger and getting better for around the same price and thats not even talking about his size and defense. And we havent even touched resigning our current players. We had no issue paying Andre 15 mil so that sounds like a good number for Dragic. Duncan will get what the market says he is worth, i'm thinking again 20 mil give or take a mil or two as his starting salary.

contract wrote:

twix2500 wrote:I want to hear others opinion on this. What role players do you consider worth paying between 15 to 20 mill per year?

Not much point in my answering ... since I can't imagine paying a role player that kind of money and not regretting it. Max contract money is defined as 25%, 30%, or 35% of the cap. Two of those plus a single $15 mil - $20 mil role player and you're capped out in a hurry. And having a "role player" as your 3rd best player is probably not going to get you where you want to go unless #1 and #2 are studs.

Thanks, I think its interesting to gauge how you all value role players and salaries. I kind of figure everyone have a unique value for role players. Contract seems to believe role players should minimum salary to MLE and stars above 20. Flash values role players between 15 to 25? Thats a huge difference in ideology.

I hadn't really thought about it like that, but yeah that sounds right if you're going to go with a 3 star strategy. You can go a bit higher for higher end role players, because the luxury tax is the real cap.

contract wrote:

twix2500 wrote:

Flash4thewin wrote:
20 mil wont get most of them and 20 is not a huge number anymore with the cap going up. A few years ago we didnt want to pay Wade a 50/20 deal but are now actively looking to do that for a 35 year old Lowry. 20+ is what the going rate for a starter is. I can see DeMar getting a 20 mil deal. Hardaway's contract will be in the 20's. With those prices i understand why Ball becomes an attractive option, why pay 25+ for Lowry when you can get Ball who is younger and getting better for around the same price and thats not even talking about his size and defense. And we havent even touched resigning our current players. We had no issue paying Andre 15 mil so that sounds like a good number for Dragic. Duncan will get what the market says he is worth, i'm thinking again 20 mil give or take a mil or two as his starting salary.

contract wrote:Not much point in my answering ... since I can't imagine paying a role player that kind of money and not regretting it. Max contract money is defined as 25%, 30%, or 35% of the cap. Two of those plus a single $15 mil - $20 mil role player and you're capped out in a hurry. And having a "role player" as your 3rd best player is probably not going to get you where you want to go unless #1 and #2 are studs.

Thanks, I think its interesting to gauge how you all value role players and salaries. I kind of figure everyone have a unique value for role players. Contract seems to believe role players should minimum salary to MLE and stars above 20. Flash values role players between 15 to 25? Thats a huge difference in ideology.

I hadn't really thought about it like that, but yeah that sounds right if you're going to go with a 3 star strategy. You can go a bit higher for higher end role players, because the luxury tax is the real cap.

This also highlights the need for younger stars who are only eligible for 25% of the cap. Those 35% guys need to be superman or they will cripple you.

I don't think there's any way we can rely on a 36yr old as a starter next season. Surely, we can see we need more size and need a stretch 5 that can play alongside Bam - provided he doesn't become more of a stretch big himself.

It does feel that Miami is pretty wedded to Duncan, for better or worse. I can't see us not signing him, so would expect we'll pay up in the $15-$20m range per. Something like 3/60. That hurts to type if i'm honest.

Georges Niang is an interesting name. Has become a solid stretch big in his own right...but he's only 6'7". I don't mind him as a backup 4, but not as a long term option as a starter. We need a proper big man.

Dedmon should be back. He played very well for us and deserves another look next year, but he's a backup 5 at this time in his career.

Dipo a very interesting one. I expect we will re-sign him, but the terms are anyones guess. Hoping for 2/30 with a 2nd year Team Option or something...

Bruce Brown is an RFA and played very well for BKN this year. He went to Miami University too, so could be an option given their cap sheet is going to be seriously stretched. He seems a Heat kinda player.

Other names I expect we will be interested in:
- JJ Redick
- Daniel Theis
- Semi Ojeleye
- Paul Millsap
- TJ McConnell
- Doug McDermott
- Alex Caruso
- PJ Tucker
- Reggie Bullock
- Otto Porter Jr
- Danny Green
- Cam Payne
- Richaun Holmes

Pretty grim list, but there are atleast options to flesh out the back end of the roster a bit better.

If we whiffed on Lowry, I'm not against giving Payne or McConnell a shot and seeing if they can be starter quality. Both have been very good backups this year.

Lowry / McConnell
Robinson / Herro
Butler / Bullock / Okpala
Adebayo / Ariza / Achiuwa
Theis / Dedmon

Has a reasonable mix of gritty defenders, shooters and playmaking.

This team is doomed. Jimmy getting maxed kills us and the Heat are not gonnaNOT extend him. There going to resign Dragic and Duncan too and there goes our cap. Well probably only trade Nunn and cut dead weight like Ariza, Iggy etc.

Our biggest move this summer will be a splash trade of Herro only and he wont net us that much to get excited about. Treadmill team. This SUCKS.

We need shot creators in the starting lineup. If I have to see another 10 secs wasted for a dribble handoff I'll throw things. Put Herro in the lineup and leave him there. If he fails, trade him, but start your best players. I have no interest in Duncan at 20 mil, but this is a team that extended Winslow so ....

Rent free Bishop

Wiltside wrote:I don't think there's any way we can rely on a 36yr old as a starter next season. Surely, we can see we need more size and need a stretch 5 that can play alongside Bam - provided he doesn't become more of a stretch big himself.

It does feel that Miami is pretty wedded to Duncan, for better or worse. I can't see us not signing him, so would expect we'll pay up in the $15-$20m range per. Something like 3/60. That hurts to type if i'm honest.

Georges Niang is an interesting name. Has become a solid stretch big in his own right...but he's only 6'7". I don't mind him as a backup 4, but not as a long term option as a starter. We need a proper big man.

Dedmon should be back. He played very well for us and deserves another look next year, but he's a backup 5 at this time in his career.

Dipo a very interesting one. I expect we will re-sign him, but the terms are anyones guess. Hoping for 2/30 with a 2nd year Team Option or something...

Bruce Brown is an RFA and played very well for BKN this year. He went to Miami University too, so could be an option given their cap sheet is going to be seriously stretched. He seems a Heat kinda player.

Other names I expect we will be interested in:
- JJ Redick
- Daniel Theis
- Semi Ojeleye
- Paul Millsap
- TJ McConnell
- Doug McDermott
- Alex Caruso
- PJ Tucker
- Reggie Bullock
- Otto Porter Jr
- Danny Green
- Cam Payne
- Richaun Holmes

Pretty grim list, but there are atleast options to flesh out the back end of the roster a bit better.

If we whiffed on Lowry, I'm not against giving Payne or McConnell a shot and seeing if they can be starter quality. Both have been very good backups this year.

Lowry / McConnell
Robinson / Herro
Butler / Bullock / Okpala
Adebayo / Ariza / Achiuwa
Theis / Dedmon

Has a reasonable mix of gritty defenders, shooters and playmaking.

That list kind of stinks, but we all realize that. I'd go Otto Porter over Duncan Robinson. A guy who can play both ends. I like Duncan, but got damn, other players just ate him up and refs really dislike him. Foul magnet.

Daniel Theis is a real option as a backup center. Dude isn't bad, but is easily disposed of it seems.

I would resign Oladipo as well. At the right price. Dude can not expect a pay day. That mess is out the window.

dolphinatik wrote:Who got better this year?
Jimmy - No
Bam - Hell no
Herro - No
Nunn- maybe slightly
Duncan - No, maybe a hair
Precious - No
KZ - No

are we better at anything- no
Spo cant win unless we have way more talent (prior to them getting on the Heat) than other teams and that is not happening right now.

BEst we can do is try to develop and discard players that progress and dont progress. Time to move on from Herro as Spo might have lost him. Probably lost Belly too and any other player on the bench that cant see any minutes. Dedmon might want back in or might take a payday somewhere else. I dont see any one player out there that is going to make us winners. Next year is a find your soul year imo.

Actually most of our main guys got a little better than last year if you look at the numbers. They did not work well together this year. It was very up and down with covid, injuries and the short off season. They never really got clicking like they did in the bubble. Remember the Heat were injury riddled last year too but got healthy during the lockdown and came in clicking on all cylinders in the bubble. They didn’t get the chance to get healthy and build that chemistry again. But as individual players? They didn’t get worse. They didn’t make huge leaps forward, they mostly did improve.

Can someone please remind me why the ****ing **** we didn’t trade for Chris Paul?

HerroBalls wrote:Can someone please remind me why the ****ing **** we didn’t trade for Chris Paul?

From what I remember OKC was driving a hard bargain. But its over and done now.

Jimmy for Wiseman and the better of the Min/GS picks wouldn’t be a terrible deal for us....

Ugh can’t believe I just Said that

HerroBalls wrote:Can someone please remind me why the ****ing **** we didn’t trade for Chris Paul?

Also wonder what would have been if we pushed harder for Harden….that hurts as I write that.

Heat board has become depressed and desperate for change. I don’t think Riles is going to sit with things as is, but it’s not going to be anything we see coming. Cheer up guys, offseason starts in less than 2 months.

I don't want to blow it up.. but if we do.......

Jimmy to Golden State for Wiggins, Wiseman, a future protected pick and what we will call pick 7

Resign Duncan on a big 3 year deal (let's call it 3/75, making him an expiring the year Wiggins is up)

Sign Lauri Markannen, TJ McConnell, Geoges Niang and Oladipo on a prove it deal (off bench when healthy)

Find a way to move up using 7, the future pick and KZ to get to 4 to get Jalen Suggs or Jalen Green

Lineup next year

Suggs or Green / McConnell
Duncan / Herro / Oladipo
Wiggins / Niang (will play more stretch 4 when Dipo Healthy) / Strus (will play more)
Lauri / Precious
Bam / Wiseman




**** it

More realistic.....

let Nunn walk, resign Duncan

let Iggy/Ariza/Belly walk

Opt into Goran deal

Resign Dedmon, Pay Lowry, Find a 4 (Lauri, Lyles, Melo?) and a backup 3 (McDermott?, Bullock, Niang)


Lowry/Goran/Vincent
Duncan/Herro/Strus
Jimmy/Bullock/KZ
Lyles/Precious
Bam/Dedmon


would also take the same team but swap Lowry for a John Collins max and sub the backup 4 for McConnell or DRose

McConnell/Goran/Vincent
Duncan/Herro/Strus
Jimmy/Bullock/KZ
Collins/Precious
Bam/Dedmon

I’ll sound silly but is there anyway of sacrificing all of our future assets for either

Lillard or

Both Westbrook and Beal

Thinking out loud if the Kings would entertain a multi player package for Fox with Herro as the center piece. If we make any moves via trade he’s the only asset with value (im operating under the assumption the FO doesn’t have the desire to move Jimmy or Bam)