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MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 Vol.5 - What Time Is It?

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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 Vol.5 - What Time Is It? 

Post#141 » by Hallstar » Sun Sep 5, 2021 3:33 pm

AirP. wrote:
Hallstar wrote:If Herro continues to develop, no way you trade him. I don't think people recognize how small this so called window of ours is. We're not a serious enough threat to be going all in when we're out there playing 1st option by committee.


You are way over-valuing a player who will quite possibly not be a regular starter his first 4 years of his NBA career, you can also include his 5th year as Miami(if they matched) will still have Lowry, Butler, 90 million dollar Robinson and quite possibly Oladipo in front of him. With at least 3 of those guys probably in front of him, do you think Miami may get out bid in keeping this backup in 2 years with Miami in the tax with Butler, Bam, Lowry, Robinson and probably Oladipo on the books? I think they will, even if they do want to keep him so you trade him in the next year for a younger front court player and/or some assets to continue to build around Bam in 3 years.


I'm not trading him when everybody in front of him has or is about to have 1 foot in the washed column. You want to have the argument against him that was made against Harden. Don't play talent off the bench because of "balance" then look at them and say you're getting bench money when they clearly have starter talent.

Saying Duncan is "ahead" of him is a joke. How many games did Duncan close out compared to Herro?

Only thing Duncan is a ahead is contract year.
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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 Vol.5 - What Time Is It? 

Post#142 » by oreon » Sun Sep 5, 2021 5:16 pm

AirP. wrote:
Hallstar wrote:If Herro continues to develop, no way you trade him. I don't think people recognize how small this so called window of ours is. We're not a serious enough threat to be going all in when we're out there playing 1st option by committee.


You are way over-valuing a player who will quite possibly not be a regular starter his first 4 years of his NBA career, you can also include his 5th year as Miami(if they matched) will still have Lowry, Butler, 90 million dollar Robinson and quite possibly Oladipo in front of him. With at least 3 of those guys probably in front of him, do you think Miami may get out bid in keeping this backup in 2 years with Miami in the tax with Butler, Bam, Lowry, Robinson and probably Oladipo on the books? I think they will, even if they do want to keep him so you trade him in the next year for a younger front court player and/or some assets to continue to build around Bam in 3 years.


Herro's has a higher ceiling than Robinson. And if I were betting I'd say Herro will be a better player than Oladipo for the next couple years. To be effective Oladipo relies on his speed & athleticism, and I think he will loose a bit of both.
I don't think the Heat should be in any hurry to trade. There's a pathway for him to be an allstar player, look at Booker. What he needs to do is really expand his offensive game.
League figured him out and he didn't have any counters. He really needs to put serious work to put more moves in his bag. I think you wait and see how he looks this season. We need to see something new in his bag, a floater or a fadeway and also his handles need to be better. If there's no significant improvement, you look around and see what him and Duncan can get you.
But longterm it would be ideal if Herro can reach his ceiling. Lowry and Butler will decline in the next few years, we need the young guys Herro and Bam to get better to compensate. Best case would be those two carrying the team in regular season, so that the older guys Buter & Lowry save themselves for playoffs
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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 Vol.5 - What Time Is It? 

Post#143 » by BenoUdrihFTL » Sun Sep 5, 2021 7:02 pm

Herro has a lot of work to do but the thing about him vs a guy like Duncan is that Herro has a very clear path to improvement. Maybe Duncan increases his 3pt%, but the big picture view is that he's nearly maxed out the potential of his player profile -- which is a credit to him and his work ethic -- and the limitations in his game (namely a mental/physical capacity for onball playmaking and shot creation) aren't really things that are gonna sprout at age 27+. Herro has already shown flashes of these abilities, and the simple things he needs to work on in order to streamline the efficiency of his game are realistic projects (e.g. adding functional strength and eliminating that annoying high-dribble tendency)

Btw I'm strictly speaking offense as neither guy will become an impact defender, although I do believe both have the potential to be competent within a team defensive scheme. Duncan is further along there than Herro imo
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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 Vol.5 - What Time Is It? 

Post#144 » by twix2500 » Mon Sep 6, 2021 1:05 am

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I think Hutchinson is an interesting player. I think he can be groomed into a quality role player.
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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 Vol.5 - What Time Is It? 

Post#145 » by AirP. » Mon Sep 6, 2021 7:51 pm

Hallstar wrote:
AirP. wrote:
Hallstar wrote:If Herro continues to develop, no way you trade him. I don't think people recognize how small this so called window of ours is. We're not a serious enough threat to be going all in when we're out there playing 1st option by committee.


You are way over-valuing a player who will quite possibly not be a regular starter his first 4 years of his NBA career, you can also include his 5th year as Miami(if they matched) will still have Lowry, Butler, 90 million dollar Robinson and quite possibly Oladipo in front of him. With at least 3 of those guys probably in front of him, do you think Miami may get out bid in keeping this backup in 2 years with Miami in the tax with Butler, Bam, Lowry, Robinson and probably Oladipo on the books? I think they will, even if they do want to keep him so you trade him in the next year for a younger front court player and/or some assets to continue to build around Bam in 3 years.


I'm not trading him when everybody in front of him has or is about to have 1 foot in the washed column. You want to have the argument against him that was made against Harden. Don't play talent off the bench because of "balance" then look at them and say you're getting bench money when they clearly have starter talent.

Saying Duncan is "ahead" of him is a joke. How many games did Duncan close out compared to Herro?

Only thing Duncan is a ahead is contract year.

Duncan got 90 million from Miami, I think that puts him ahead of him.
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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 Vol.5 - What Time Is It? 

Post#146 » by AirP. » Mon Sep 6, 2021 8:02 pm

oreon wrote:
AirP. wrote:
Hallstar wrote:If Herro continues to develop, no way you trade him. I don't think people recognize how small this so called window of ours is. We're not a serious enough threat to be going all in when we're out there playing 1st option by committee.


You are way over-valuing a player who will quite possibly not be a regular starter his first 4 years of his NBA career, you can also include his 5th year as Miami(if they matched) will still have Lowry, Butler, 90 million dollar Robinson and quite possibly Oladipo in front of him. With at least 3 of those guys probably in front of him, do you think Miami may get out bid in keeping this backup in 2 years with Miami in the tax with Butler, Bam, Lowry, Robinson and probably Oladipo on the books? I think they will, even if they do want to keep him so you trade him in the next year for a younger front court player and/or some assets to continue to build around Bam in 3 years.


Herro's has a higher ceiling than Robinson. And if I were betting I'd say Herro will be a better player than Oladipo for the next couple years. To be effective Oladipo relies on his speed & athleticism, and I think he will loose a bit of both.
I don't think the Heat should be in any hurry to trade. There's a pathway for him to be an allstar player, look at Booker. What he needs to do is really expand his offensive game.
League figured him out and he didn't have any counters. He really needs to put serious work to put more moves in his bag. I think you wait and see how he looks this season. We need to see something new in his bag, a floater or a fadeway and also his handles need to be better. If there's no significant improvement, you look around and see what him and Duncan can get you.
But longterm it would be ideal if Herro can reach his ceiling. Lowry and Butler will decline in the next few years, we need the young guys Herro and Bam to get better to compensate. Best case would be those two carrying the team in regular season, so that the older guys Buter & Lowry save themselves for playoffs

Herro absolutely has a higher ceiling then Robinson. I don't think Herro will be anywhere near as good as Oladipo because defense is half the game which Oladipo is light years ahead of Herro.

I don't have an issue with Herro's scoring, I think he is a good scorer, it's the rest of his game I worry about. He simply loses focus with his passing and it ends up ruining possessions, this is why his ORTG is so low.

To me it's really simple, you move Herro in a package to address other areas on the team to strengthen a championship run or this team isn't all in on trying to win a title for the next half decade.

I've not been high on Herro, he's not nearly good enough of a player/prospect to not move to try to win a title with the current team. It's really hard to build a contender and 2 years ago this team was building around Bam, Winslow and Richardson and now have a chance to contend, I say you do everything you can to strengthen the roster for a championship run and rig right now... Miami is limited at PF with Tucker and Morris, that's 48 minutes a game that needs upgrading.
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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 Vol.5 - What Time Is It? 

Post#147 » by twix2500 » Mon Sep 6, 2021 10:58 pm

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A little disappointed his career was cut short. But extremely grateful he is still alive and healthy to enjoy life after BBall.

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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 Vol.5 - What Time Is It? 

Post#148 » by Bishop45 » Wed Sep 8, 2021 12:42 am

Yea', would've liked Hutchison here, hope we had gave it a shot
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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 Vol.5 - What Time Is It? 

Post#149 » by puppa bear » Wed Sep 8, 2021 10:23 am

Bishop45 wrote:Yea', would've liked Hutchison here, hope we had gave it a shot

Yeah, but you know we’re only signing someone that moves the needle & likely after a buyout.

Unless we trade KZ and free up a vey min slot that way.
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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 Vol.5 - What Time Is It? 

Post#150 » by Rodrizzle » Wed Sep 8, 2021 1:44 pm

Clips Just signed Giles to a non guaranteed deal. Would have loved to get him here and see what he could do.
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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 Vol.5 - What Time Is It? 

Post#151 » by MettaWorldPanda » Wed Sep 8, 2021 2:39 pm

Damn. Baby G looking swole

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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 Vol.5 - What Time Is It? 

Post#152 » by oreon » Wed Sep 8, 2021 7:33 pm

AirP. wrote:
oreon wrote:
AirP. wrote:
You are way over-valuing a player who will quite possibly not be a regular starter his first 4 years of his NBA career, you can also include his 5th year as Miami(if they matched) will still have Lowry, Butler, 90 million dollar Robinson and quite possibly Oladipo in front of him. With at least 3 of those guys probably in front of him, do you think Miami may get out bid in keeping this backup in 2 years with Miami in the tax with Butler, Bam, Lowry, Robinson and probably Oladipo on the books? I think they will, even if they do want to keep him so you trade him in the next year for a younger front court player and/or some assets to continue to build around Bam in 3 years.


Herro's has a higher ceiling than Robinson. And if I were betting I'd say Herro will be a better player than Oladipo for the next couple years. To be effective Oladipo relies on his speed & athleticism, and I think he will loose a bit of both.
I don't think the Heat should be in any hurry to trade. There's a pathway for him to be an allstar player, look at Booker. What he needs to do is really expand his offensive game.
League figured him out and he didn't have any counters. He really needs to put serious work to put more moves in his bag. I think you wait and see how he looks this season. We need to see something new in his bag, a floater or a fadeway and also his handles need to be better. If there's no significant improvement, you look around and see what him and Duncan can get you.
But longterm it would be ideal if Herro can reach his ceiling. Lowry and Butler will decline in the next few years, we need the young guys Herro and Bam to get better to compensate. Best case would be those two carrying the team in regular season, so that the older guys Buter & Lowry save themselves for playoffs

Herro absolutely has a higher ceiling then Robinson. I don't think Herro will be anywhere near as good as Oladipo because defense is half the game which Oladipo is light years ahead of Herro.

I don't have an issue with Herro's scoring, I think he is a good scorer, it's the rest of his game I worry about. He simply loses focus with his passing and it ends up ruining possessions, this is why his ORTG is so low.

To me it's really simple, you move Herro in a package to address other areas on the team to strengthen a championship run or this team isn't all in on trying to win a title for the next half decade.

I've not been high on Herro, he's not nearly good enough of a player/prospect to not move to try to win a title with the current team. It's really hard to build a contender and 2 years ago this team was building around Bam, Winslow and Richardson and now have a chance to contend, I say you do everything you can to strengthen the roster for a championship run and rig right now... Miami is limited at PF with Tucker and Morris, that's 48 minutes a game that needs upgrading.


It's highly unlikely the Heat win a ring in the next 3 years. Nets are a level above anyone else. Then you have Lakers right below. And below the Lakers you have Bucks, Nuggets who most teams would favor against the Heat. The Heat need a perfect storm to win, kinda like what happened with Bucks and Suns.
So I don't think trading Herro for a role player is going to jump us into the Nets and Lakers tier.
Now if you trade Herro for someone like Lavine than yeah but that's Herro at this point can get you someone who an allstar or borderline allstar. Last season really killed his value.
So why not develop him and see if he can improve. We don't have to make a decision on his future till he hits RFA, I think that's 2 years away. So for this year, you tell the kid for now we are not looking to trade you but you need to improve to stay here longterm. If by trade deadline he doesn't show significant progress then move him for whatever.
I would prefer he improves and you can have a core of Bam and Herro to add another piece past the Butler era.
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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 Vol.5 - What Time Is It? 

Post#153 » by Hallstar » Wed Sep 8, 2021 7:58 pm

MettaWorldPanda wrote:Damn. Baby G looking swole

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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 Vol.5 - What Time Is It? 

Post#154 » by AirP. » Wed Sep 8, 2021 10:29 pm

oreon wrote:It's highly unlikely the Heat win a ring in the next 3 years. Nets are a level above anyone else. Then you have Lakers right below. And below the Lakers you have Bucks, Nuggets who most teams would favor against the Heat. The Heat need a perfect storm to win, kinda like what happened with Bucks and Suns.
So I don't think trading Herro for a role player is going to jump us into the Nets and Lakers tier.

Never said trade Herro for a role player.
Also, in a playoff setting it will be interesting, for example with Brooklyn, Kyle or Oladipo can guard Kyrie, Butler or Oladipo can guard Harden, and Bam and Tucker can play Durant, the Nets will have a hard time guarding Miami. I'm not talking regular season where players aren't giving it their all, I'm talking playoff basketball.
Now if you trade Herro for someone like Lavine than yeah but that's Herro at this point can get you someone who an allstar or borderline allstar. Last season really killed his value.

LaVine? I don't value Herro anywhere near that level of a player. I highly doubt I ever see Herro break the ranking of the top 40 players in the NBA.
So why not develop him and see if he can improve. We don't have to make a decision on his future till he hits RFA, I think that's 2 years away. So for this year, you tell the kid for now we are not looking to trade you but you need to improve to stay here longterm. If by trade deadline he doesn't show significant progress then move him for whatever.
I would prefer he improves and you can have a core of Bam and Herro to add another piece past the Butler era.

Why not let him develop, because Miami is trying to strengthen their run with Lowry. If you're expecting a better team in 4-5 years when Butler's near the end of his contract with your main guys being Bam, Herro and Robinson... good luck with that, you got a glimpse this year without Butler and Miami looked bad, like nearly the worse team in the league bad. Miami got lucky with adding a max player for almost nothing, why not capitalize on that then worry about what the team will be in half a decade? To me it's much more likely Herro becomes a scoring 6th man then a good starter, some think they can still develop him. I'd move him in a package if I can get a good player for him at a position of need.
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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 Vol.5 - What Time Is It? 

Post#155 » by IceColdCubano » Thu Sep 9, 2021 12:05 am

AirP. wrote:
oreon wrote:It's highly unlikely the Heat win a ring in the next 3 years. Nets are a level above anyone else. Then you have Lakers right below. And below the Lakers you have Bucks, Nuggets who most teams would favor against the Heat. The Heat need a perfect storm to win, kinda like what happened with Bucks and Suns.
So I don't think trading Herro for a role player is going to jump us into the Nets and Lakers tier.

Never said trade Herro for a role player.
Also, in a playoff setting it will be interesting, for example with Brooklyn, Kyle or Oladipo can guard Kyrie, Butler or Oladipo can guard Harden, and Bam and Tucker can play Durant, the Nets will have a hard time guarding Miami. I'm not talking regular season where players aren't giving it their all, I'm talking playoff basketball.
Now if you trade Herro for someone like Lavine than yeah but that's Herro at this point can get you someone who an allstar or borderline allstar. Last season really killed his value.

LaVine? I don't value Herro anywhere near that level of a player. I highly doubt I ever see Herro break the ranking of the top 40 players in the NBA.
So why not develop him and see if he can improve. We don't have to make a decision on his future till he hits RFA, I think that's 2 years away. So for this year, you tell the kid for now we are not looking to trade you but you need to improve to stay here longterm. If by trade deadline he doesn't show significant progress then move him for whatever.
I would prefer he improves and you can have a core of Bam and Herro to add another piece past the Butler era.

Why not let him develop, because Miami is trying to strengthen their run with Lowry. If you're expecting a better team in 4-5 years when Butler's near the end of his contract with your main guys being Bam, Herro and Robinson... good luck with that, you got a glimpse this year without Butler and Miami looked bad, like nearly the worse team in the league bad. Miami got lucky with adding a max player for almost nothing, why not capitalize on that then worry about what the team will be in half a decade? To me it's much more likely Herro becomes a scoring 6th man then a good starter, some think they can still develop him. I'd move him in a package if I can get a good player for him at a position of need.


If this was the case herro would have been traded already. Our front office does not believe we’re so close to winning that foregoing herro becoming an all star is worth a role player who gives us a few extra wins. They believe we’re competitive enough to make noise and perhaps with a perfect storm anything can happen. After 3 years there needs to be considerable assets to continue trying for a chip.
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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 Vol.5 - What Time Is It? 

Post#156 » by Kobewade11 » Thu Sep 9, 2021 12:05 am

Rodrizzle wrote:Clips Just signed Giles to a non guaranteed deal. Would have loved to get him here and see what he could do.

I was in on Giles too. Oh well, good no risk signing for the Clippers
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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 Vol.5 - What Time Is It? 

Post#157 » by BenoUdrihFTL » Thu Sep 9, 2021 12:16 am

You know it's the offseason when the GB is ruminating about Luke Babbitt lmao

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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 Vol.5 - What Time Is It? 

Post#158 » by AirP. » Thu Sep 9, 2021 2:51 am

IceColdCubano wrote:
If this was the case herro would have been traded already. Our front office does not believe we’re so close to winning that foregoing herro becoming an all star is worth a role player who gives us a few extra wins.

All-Star huh? How about Herro becoming a regular starter before you start talking All-Star. He's not going to be a regular starter this next year and probably not a regular starter his whole rookie contract.
They believe we’re competitive enough to make noise and perhaps with a perfect storm anything can happen. After 3 years there needs to be considerable assets to continue trying for a chip.

Without Butler this team looked horrific last year. I don't expect Miami to have a player better then Butler for a long long time and with that, Miami probably will take years to get to the current level that the team is now. Luckily for Miami Butler was looking for a team with a good work ethic or Miami would still be trying to compete with Bam, Winslow, Richardson, Robinson and Herro, that's not a good team let alone a team that has a chance for a title. Too many people downplay how much better Butler makes this team because they like young players with "potential" vs actual good talent. Potential is very hit and miss and potential gets coaches and GMs fired, go with proven players and hope a younger player in a good environment evolves into a good to great player.
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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 Vol.5 - What Time Is It? 

Post#159 » by IggieCC » Thu Sep 9, 2021 4:07 pm

BenoUdrihFTL wrote:You know it's the offseason when the GB is ruminating about Luke Babbitt lmao

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2121677

Spoiler:
BenoUdrihFTL wrote:Luke Babbitt in today's NBA would be putting up 35ppg on 70% TS


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Re: MIAMI HEAT Offseason Thread 2021 Vol.5 - What Time Is It? 

Post#160 » by IggieCC » Thu Sep 9, 2021 4:09 pm

The thread title should be "How come Luke Babbitt stuck as a role player?" and answer is "Spo"
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