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Game 58: Miami vs Dallas - 2/15 @ 7:30pm EST

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Re: Game 58: Miami vs Dallas - 2/15 @ 7:30pm EST 

Post#581 » by HeatFanLifer » Wed Feb 16, 2022 4:12 am

somerandomdude wrote:
KingDavid wrote:
somerandomdude wrote:Max Strus as a starter. 9 games.

Spoiler:
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Better defender too. But they're not likely to bench 90 million. It's why we didn't play Mike Miller over Lebron when he was sucking it up against Dallas in 2011; an entirely different set of circumstances, but the precedent is set.


Don't disagree with the explanation as to why, but we're gonna lose out on a championship over the belief that we can't admit that we signed Duncan to a bad deal.

This is Sunk Cost Fallacy in full effect.

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Re: Game 58: Miami vs Dallas - 2/15 @ 7:30pm EST 

Post#582 » by KingDavid » Wed Feb 16, 2022 4:13 am

Shewasfly wrote:Even as a huge big booty Strussy fan, I don’t agree that he should start in the playoffs. In the playoffs they need to stop kidding themselves and put Tyler in the SL.

Lowry
Herro
Butler
PJ
Bam

But Strus does need to take all Duncan’s minutes come playoff time.

Herro won't have the opportunity to create his shots though. I think he struggled as a starter for us this year.
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Re: Game 58: Miami vs Dallas - 2/15 @ 7:30pm EST 

Post#583 » by Shewasfly » Wed Feb 16, 2022 4:23 am

KingDavid wrote:
Shewasfly wrote:Even as a huge big booty Strussy fan, I don’t agree that he should start in the playoffs. In the playoffs they need to stop kidding themselves and put Tyler in the SL.

Lowry
Herro
Butler
PJ
Bam

But Strus does need to take all Duncan’s minutes come playoff time.

Herro won't have the opportunity to create his shots though. I think he struggled as a starter for us this year.

It’s probably for the better. He’s a lot better of a 3 point shooter on set shots, which Lowry and Jimmy can get him. Plus he will benefit from playing with our best lineups where his limitations on defense will be better covered for.
His minutes can still be staggered so he can create his own shot.
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Re: Game 58: Miami vs Dallas - 2/15 @ 7:30pm EST 

Post#584 » by harlem_ball » Wed Feb 16, 2022 4:36 am

A big, fat L
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Re: Game 58: Miami vs Dallas - 2/15 @ 7:30pm EST 

Post#585 » by AirP. » Wed Feb 16, 2022 4:42 am

Shewasfly wrote:
somerandomdude wrote:
AirP. wrote:So weird other teams have 3pt shooters who do other things on the court and make nowhere near 90 million over 5 years. I still can't believe Miami paid Robinson that amount. Not a "scorer", not a "defender", just a 3pt shooter who played 20 minutes tonight in a game Miami desperately needed shooting.

Every Duncan believer I've talked to swears this is fair value for Duncan Robinson.

I've never heard of a 3pt specialist getting paid this much money before in my life - especially by Riley, who never overpaid a 3pt specialist before Duncan, which I suspect was done as a favor to Spoelstra.

So now even Riley’s clear and obvious failures were Spo’s fault? This ridic Spo hate is becoming a parody of itself at this point :lol:

It's been said Spoelstra wanted him back, not Riley. I think the amount of time Spoelstra has invested in Robinson seems to have made him a favorite of his which would make sense by not playing Strus nearly as much as Duncan the last 2 years, last year was to make sure his pet project got paid for his hard work(and I believe Robinson works hard), this year trying not to have that investment go down the drain but Strus is putting up 61% in TS%, only Tucker and Dedmon are the only Miami rotation players with higher TS%.

There's a reason why Miami players move on and don't do as well and that's because of Spoelstra which is why I'd like to see more talented players be brought in instead of overpaying guys who aren't as talented getting a real benefit for playing under Spoelstra.
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Re: Game 58: Miami vs Dallas - 2/15 @ 7:30pm EST 

Post#586 » by Beenie » Wed Feb 16, 2022 4:45 am

AirP. wrote:Miami needed shooting while Strus got 20 minutes and 4 shots, the guy who's getting paid 90 million to shoot 3s only plays 20 minutes and Vincent misses 8 of 9 shots.

Oh, and it seems Miami doesn't need Dragic.


Dragic +/- last year was approximately a combined +40 after the regular season and in the playoff he was a combined -34 which leaves a grand total of +6 for his 20/21 season.

To give some perspective, Jrue Holiday, the guy who was eating Dragic's lunch for him in the playoffs, ended with a +379 in the regular season.

Dragic can't defend a brink wall and his shooting is too streaky to justify his addition.

He could have easily been out there tonight and shot 2-7 himself while getting punished on switches against Doncic.
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Re: Game 58: Miami vs Dallas - 2/15 @ 7:30pm EST 

Post#587 » by AirP. » Wed Feb 16, 2022 4:55 am

Beenie wrote:
AirP. wrote:Miami needed shooting while Strus got 20 minutes and 4 shots, the guy who's getting paid 90 million to shoot 3s only plays 20 minutes and Vincent misses 8 of 9 shots.

Oh, and it seems Miami doesn't need Dragic.


Dragic +/- last year was approximately a combined +40 after the regular season and in the playoff he was a combined -34 which leaves a grand total of +6 for his 20/21 season.

To give some perspective, Jrue Holiday, the guy who was eating Dragic's lunch for him in the playoffs, ended with a +379 in the regular season.

Dragic can't defend a brink wall and his shooting is too streaky to justify his addition.

He could have easily been out there tonight and shot 2-7 himself while getting punished on switches against Doncic.

Or maybe he would of attacked after Butler passed out of being double or triple teamed?

Dragic isn't a "great" player, but he's a rotation level player with playoff experience for a playoff team. It's on the FO for how lopsided this roster is, Spoelstra's had to go with Martin a ton this year at PF, that's ridiculous. There's really no reason to only have had 2 PFs on a roster when your starting PF is 36 years old.
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Re: Game 58: Miami vs Dallas - 2/15 @ 7:30pm EST 

Post#588 » by somerandomdude » Wed Feb 16, 2022 4:57 am

Shewasfly wrote:
somerandomdude wrote:
AirP. wrote:So weird other teams have 3pt shooters who do other things on the court and make nowhere near 90 million over 5 years. I still can't believe Miami paid Robinson that amount. Not a "scorer", not a "defender", just a 3pt shooter who played 20 minutes tonight in a game Miami desperately needed shooting.

Every Duncan believer I've talked to swears this is fair value for Duncan Robinson.

I've never heard of a 3pt specialist getting paid this much money before in my life - especially by Riley, who never overpaid a 3pt specialist before Duncan, which I suspect was done as a favor to Spoelstra.

So now even Riley’s clear and obvious failures were Spo’s fault? This ridic Spo hate is becoming a parody of itself at this point :lol:

I know it may be hard for you to believe, but:

* Riley has never overpaid a 3pt specialist before Duncan Robinson
* Riley is not a believer in small ball
* Riley thinks Bam should be a PF
* Riley thinks Bam should be a scorer, not Duncan's personal PG
* Riley signed Yurtz to play alongside Bam

What you're seeing now is not Riley's doing, it's your boy Spo.

Learn to live with his faults and the criticisms that follow rather than mocking others who point it out.
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Re: Game 58: Miami vs Dallas - 2/15 @ 7:30pm EST 

Post#589 » by Bishop45 » Wed Feb 16, 2022 5:05 am

balla345 wrote:and yall dont want dragic for gabe. Dragon was a big reason for us going to the finals he was more clutch than anyone we got now


Was our highest scorer in that Finals run, but old(er), injured(er) now
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Re: Game 58: Miami vs Dallas - 2/15 @ 7:30pm EST 

Post#590 » by Beenie » Wed Feb 16, 2022 5:21 am

AirP. wrote:
Beenie wrote:
AirP. wrote:Miami needed shooting while Strus got 20 minutes and 4 shots, the guy who's getting paid 90 million to shoot 3s only plays 20 minutes and Vincent misses 8 of 9 shots.

Oh, and it seems Miami doesn't need Dragic.


Dragic +/- last year was approximately a combined +40 after the regular season and in the playoff he was a combined -34 which leaves a grand total of +6 for his 20/21 season.

To give some perspective, Jrue Holiday, the guy who was eating Dragic's lunch for him in the playoffs, ended with a +379 in the regular season.

Dragic can't defend a brink wall and his shooting is too streaky to justify his addition.

He could have easily been out there tonight and shot 2-7 himself while getting punished on switches against Doncic.

Or maybe he would of attacked after Butler passed out of being double or triple teamed?

Dragic isn't a "great" player, but he's a rotation level player with playoff experience for a playoff team. It's on the FO for how lopsided this roster is, Spoelstra's had to go with Martin a ton this year at PF, that's ridiculous. There's really no reason to only have had 2 PFs on a roster when your starting PF is 36 years old.


Your point about the lack of size and depth at PF speaks to why adding Dragic is a nonsensical idea.

Oladipo is coming back soon which only strengthens to argument against bringing back Goran.

Mia would be better served to probe the buyout market for a big should an attractive one become available.
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Re: Game 58: Miami vs Dallas - 2/15 @ 7:30pm EST 

Post#591 » by marson » Wed Feb 16, 2022 5:39 am

We also missed Caleb's presence in this game.

Our backcourt pressure has been lackluster in the past few games.
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Re: Game 58: Miami vs Dallas - 2/15 @ 7:30pm EST 

Post#592 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Feb 16, 2022 5:56 am

Shewasfly wrote:Even as a huge big booty Strussy fan, I don’t agree that he should start in the playoffs. In the playoffs they need to stop kidding themselves and put Tyler in the SL.

Lowry
Herro
Butler
PJ
Bam

But Strus does need to take all Duncan’s minutes come playoff time.


Depending on how Dipo looks maybe that’s something they do or maybe they love Herro in his role and start Dipo over Duncan.
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Re: Game 58: Miami vs Dallas - 2/15 @ 7:30pm EST 

Post#593 » by 3ammy3uck3ts » Wed Feb 16, 2022 5:59 am

I understand Yurt also has some nice tools but I still don’t know if he’s ready. His defensive awareness is bad and burned is multiple times tonight in the 2nd half. He played soft too letting Brunson bully him.
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Re: Game 58: Miami vs Dallas - 2/15 @ 7:30pm EST 

Post#594 » by somerandomdude » Wed Feb 16, 2022 6:46 am

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:I understand Yurt also has some nice tools but I still don’t know if he’s ready. His defensive awareness is bad and burned is multiple times tonight in the 2nd half. He played soft too letting Brunson bully him.

Mind sharing highlights?

You can go to the NBA box score and click on FGAs/FGMs/etc for each individual player and pick out plays.

https://www.nba.com/game/dal-vs-mia-0022100868/box-score

Honestly, I just think it's a matter of believing that our Switching Defense philosophy is good, when there's ample evidence (especially tonight) that shows its shortcomings.

How many times do you have to see the Mavs "forcing" the switch to Duncan and have Luka isolate him then blowing past him, or Bam out on the perimeter contesting shots while our guys are giving up offensive rebounds, or just the general confusion of having to do so much rotating as the ball gets swung around.

It's also important to remember that Yurtz isn't out there with our best defenders.

Regardless, he's a rookie, so there will be growing pains, just don't expect players to learn from watching on the sidelines.
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Re: Game 58: Miami vs Dallas - 2/15 @ 7:30pm EST 

Post#595 » by Shewasfly » Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:19 am

somerandomdude wrote:
Shewasfly wrote:
somerandomdude wrote:Every Duncan believer I've talked to swears this is fair value for Duncan Robinson.

I've never heard of a 3pt specialist getting paid this much money before in my life - especially by Riley, who never overpaid a 3pt specialist before Duncan, which I suspect was done as a favor to Spoelstra.

So now even Riley’s clear and obvious failures were Spo’s fault? This ridic Spo hate is becoming a parody of itself at this point :lol:

I know it may be hard for you to believe, but:

* Riley has never overpaid a 3pt specialist before Duncan Robinson
* Riley is not a believer in small ball
* Riley thinks Bam should be a PF
* Riley thinks Bam should be a scorer, not Duncan's personal PG
* Riley signed Yurtz to play alongside Bam

What you're seeing now is not Riley's doing, it's your boy Spo.

Learn to live with his faults and the criticisms that follow rather than mocking others who point it out.

So Riley signed Yurtz but somehow didn't sign Duncan? lol
And not only did Riley get forced to sign Duncan (and we're talking about Riley here, who couldn't even be forced to pay Wade, the man who was responsible for his coaching tenure in Miami having any relevance at all) but he was able to force him to pay Duncan $90m? lol
And Bam refusing to shoot until this year post-injury is Spo's doing, even though Jimmy himself for the past couple years has said BAM lets his defenders off the hook, and has talked about his passiveness in so many ways? lol

Sorry but you clearly go out of your way to essentially make up unproven scenarios that lay blame for whatever you don't like at Spo's feet. But the stuff he should get credit for you find a way to snake into being someone else's glory.
I was not even a fan of Spo's let alone a defender, you can check my history. But after the bubble season and him continuously since then coaching rosters that if I'm honest, I look at on paper and should not have the success they have, I began to appreciate him. Especially seeing actual horrible coaches around the league with good rosters that couldn't do **** with them.

So yeah. I'm not even mocking you. Whatever rage you have against Spo I can't call it. But your takes on him have reached absurdity. Like did Spo force Riley to overpay Whiteside, TJ, and even Dion Waiters too? :lol:
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Re: Game 58: Miami vs Dallas - 2/15 @ 7:30pm EST 

Post#596 » by Shewasfly » Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:22 am

3ammy3uck3ts wrote:
Shewasfly wrote:Even as a huge big booty Strussy fan, I don’t agree that he should start in the playoffs. In the playoffs they need to stop kidding themselves and put Tyler in the SL.

Lowry
Herro
Butler
PJ
Bam

But Strus does need to take all Duncan’s minutes come playoff time.


Depending on how Dipo looks maybe that’s something they do or maybe they love Herro in his role and start Dipo over Duncan.

Someone else mentioned starting Dipo. I think it'd be a difficult move. Dipo can hit threes (or at least he could, who knows when he returns) but he's not a 3 point shooter. I don't think he'd provide the floor spacing Jimmy and Bam would need.
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Re: Game 58: Miami vs Dallas - 2/15 @ 7:30pm EST 

Post#597 » by somerandomdude » Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:23 am

Ira believes the league is going away from small ball :D

I've been saying that the only teams truly playing small were the Heat and Warriors.

Even when we had the Big 3, how did teams counter us? With bigs!

Skip to 5m20s and 6m15s

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Re: Game 58: Miami vs Dallas - 2/15 @ 7:30pm EST 

Post#598 » by harlem_ball » Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:36 am

Dallas' power forwards feasted on miami tonight.

Not a bad showing, Bam and Jimmy got their numbers, if the 3 ball drops for Vincent and DRob this is probably a double digit win.

Luka was held in check for the most part.

No need to reinvent the wheel by lamenting the past, Spo just needs to integrate a big lineup or two.

We're very close.
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Re: Game 58: Miami vs Dallas - 2/15 @ 7:30pm EST 

Post#599 » by Shewasfly » Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:37 am

AirP. wrote:
Shewasfly wrote:
somerandomdude wrote:Every Duncan believer I've talked to swears this is fair value for Duncan Robinson.

I've never heard of a 3pt specialist getting paid this much money before in my life - especially by Riley, who never overpaid a 3pt specialist before Duncan, which I suspect was done as a favor to Spoelstra.

So now even Riley’s clear and obvious failures were Spo’s fault? This ridic Spo hate is becoming a parody of itself at this point :lol:

It's been said Spoelstra wanted him back, not Riley. I think the amount of time Spoelstra has invested in Robinson seems to have made him a favorite of his which would make sense by not playing Strus nearly as much as Duncan the last 2 years, last year was to make sure his pet project got paid for his hard work(and I believe Robinson works hard), this year trying not to have that investment go down the drain but Strus is putting up 61% in TS%, only Tucker and Dedmon are the only Miami rotation players with higher TS%.

There's a reason why Miami players move on and don't do as well and that's because of Spoelstra which is why I'd like to see more talented players be brought in instead of overpaying guys who aren't as talented getting a real benefit for playing under Spoelstra.

Not really buying all of the first part of what you said. He spent the same amount of time with Herro and Gabe. The Heat President paid Duncan an insane amount of money and now it has to be justified, period. Some of this is clearly political. Its the same situation with Yogurt and Dedmond. Dedmond getting the call has as much to do with him being a vet who has "earned it" as it does with Spo thinking he can execute better than Yogurt.

The second part is true, and what I want to see as well. But again, roster/personnel isn't mostly on Spo. Coaches can only play and game plan for the players you're able to get them.
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Re: Game 58: Miami vs Dallas - 2/15 @ 7:30pm EST 

Post#600 » by harlem_ball » Wed Feb 16, 2022 7:45 am

And yeah, It's disappointing that Robinson is struggling and that we keep overpaying Spo's projects but Riley knows how to get rid of them eventually.

Duncan needs to get back to his elite level of consistency. Hopefully, he gets hot in the playoffs.

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