Saltics @ Heat - 8:30pm - Thursday - Game 2

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Ingram has NEVER been cited for his defense...ever. But because it's us, he's now magically gonna get it.

And if you don't understand how scoring works, he's not putting up 27 in a series for us, not even close. I've spoken about how talent > grit for years before Herro, but we keep going at it year after year with no offensive philosophy and keep being surprised when we can't keep up in a shootout, but hey...more defense.

So trade Herro for grit and lets move on. We'll be winning games in the 90s. Only NBA team that will be doing it, who needs to score?

WE ARE NOT PUTTING THE PLAYERS WITH TALENT IN POSITION TO SCORE

You don’t have to be known as a great defender to be a better defender than Herro. Ingram is long as hell, tall, and athletic. If you don’t think that would bring a new dynamic to the defense surrounded by our elite defenders then idk what to tell you.

He may not put up 27 but he would be 1a 1b with Jimmy as a scoring option and I’m very confident in that. He’s averaging 22 worst case imo. That against a great Suns defense by the way.

We don’t need to trade him for grit but we can get good value back for him after this season he’s had. No way we can max a one dimensional player like him who doesn’t play defense. He’s an over glorified Jordan Clarkson, if you can trade that for an all star while he’s young and has value you do it.

HE HAS THE HIGHEST USAGE ON THE TEAM IN THE REGULAR SEASON AND 2ND HIGHEST IN THE PLAYOFFS. HE LED THE TEAM IN SHOT ATTEMPTS THIS SEASON AND IS 2ND IN THE PLAYOFFS. He has all the opportunities in the world.

He’s not even much of an efficient scorer, his numbers jumped based on increase usage and shot attempts this year. His efficiency is even much worse in the playoffs. He is consistently a negative impact player. When he scores 3 points he turns around and gives away 6 on the other end.

If Herro was on some dog crap team like the people you want he would be putting up 25+ and you'd be ready to trade all our crap for consistent scoring.

I don't know why you're against paying Herro anyway, we already wasted one max contract, what's the problem with another?

Added that he's currently the only player who gives a damn to put your boy in position to score

Yea he would average 25 on 23 shots or some ****, that is not impressive at all. And his defense would still arguably be the worst in the league.

Name every player in the league who averages 19-10-4 while being arguably the best defender in the world. I’ll wait.

You’re disappointed in his scoring right now, and rightfully so but he does so much more than that and his impact on winning is huge. We do need him to be a scoring punch like he’s always been so hopefully that changes

[3ammy3uck3ts]

And let’s just be real; we’ve seen how bad Herros numbers are when he’s a starter so I might be giving him too much credit saying he’d score 25 on 23 shots.

[AirP.]

Here's game 2 ORTG-DRTG for Miami

Dedmon was 1 for 1 with an assist and 2 reb so that ORTG is based off nearly the smallest amount of data.

Code: Select all

Starters                    ORtg DRtg ORtg-DRtg
--------                    ---- ---- ---------
Dewayne Dedmon\dedmode01    207  138         69
Jimmy Butler\butleji01      129  137         -8
Duncan Robinson\robindu01   109  119        -10
Gabe Vincent\vincega01      120  139        -19
Omer Yurtseven\yurtsom01    113  134        -21
Bam Adebayo\adebaba01       107  136        -29
Victor Oladipo\oladivi01    101  136        -35
Max Strus\strusma01         89   129        -40
Caleb Martin\martica02      99   140        -41
Tyler Herro\herroty01       93   137        -44
P.J. Tucker\tuckepj01       72   139        -67
Haywood Highsmith\highsha01 0    137       -137

[oreon]

Im not kicking Herro out of the rotation. He was bad so was everyone else. He was no worse than anyone else. It's not just Herro when the whole team plays bad defense. Its the whole team and I think Celtics made some adjustments to get more open 3s. We need Spo to fix the scheme and better effort collectively.
I'd keep the rotation the same. If Lowry is back, I'd play Lowry but Herro still gets his minutes

If you look, Herro is + in +/- during Miami blowouts, close games he's bad... usually really bad for the team.

My point is that he isn't helping, there are too many people infatuated with how smooth he looks on the court and how he sometimes can score in flurries, the rest of the time it's not good. The regular season teams weren't practicing much and there wasn't much scouting on Herro on how to play him, now there's time and scouting reports and teams are finally getting up into him and he can't handle it. If he gets the ball and attacks before the defender can get up on him he's fine, if he hesitates where a defender can get up into him he's screwed.


Let's look at Herro +/- and what Miami wins or loses by...
vs Atl Miami win/loss by, Herro +/-
#1 Miami +24, Herro +6... not needed but didn't hurt the team.
#2 Miami +10, Herro -6... not needed hurt the team.
#3 Miami -1, Herro -21... not needed, maybe wins if he doesn't play.
#4 Miami +24, Herro +7... not needed but didn't hurt the team.
#5 Miami +3, Herro -6... not needed, hurt the team.

Vs Philly
#1 Miami +14, Herro +4, not needed but did fine.
#2 Miami +16, Herro +9, fine, needed him this game.
#3 Miami -20, Herro -16, no worse then everyone else I guess.
#4 Miami -8, Herro -9, not needed, maybe not worse then most.
#5 Miami +35, Herro +16, not needed but was a positive.
#6 Miami +9, Herro -6, not needed and hurt the team.

Vs Boston
#1 Miami +11, Herro +5, needed, good.
#2 Miami -25, Herro -33, not needed, hurt the team.

Trade him, we would've been a 5th seed this year if lucky and already home. +/- is the biggest bs when you can be out there when the team takes foot off neck in a blowout and then you're a "minus". BUt if I'm in the lineup when we go from down 25 to down 15 in a blowout, I had a good +/-.

So your little assessments about needed or not needed is very ridiculous given you offer no context of how the game was actually played.

We got a whole max player putting up a triple single, but the young guard coming in to some ridiculous lineups he never played with is the problem.

The problem is the lack of 2nd guy. We were counting on Herro to be secondary scorer because he was able to do that in regular season but his play hasn't translated into playoffs. Most of us just gave up on Bam being an offensive threat. Frankly as you said he should get more of the blame for not stepping as he's the one who got paid. Sure as a baseline performance Bam gives great defense but when you get max, you can't be invisible offensively. Gobert gets criticized for being a non offensive threat, Bam should also too.
And as bad as Herro has been, he was crucial in keeping us in game 1. If he had a bad game 1, that deficit could have been much larger and harder to get out of. I don't think in anyway it makes sense to cut him out of the rotation. You play him and his minutes either go up or down depending on his performance. But in some games, his scoring might be crucial.

[Hallstar]

You don’t have to be known as a great defender to be a better defender than Herro. Ingram is long as hell, tall, and athletic. If you don’t think that would bring a new dynamic to the defense surrounded by our elite defenders then idk what to tell you.

He may not put up 27 but he would be 1a 1b with Jimmy as a scoring option and I’m very confident in that. He’s averaging 22 worst case imo. That against a great Suns defense by the way.

We don’t need to trade him for grit but we can get good value back for him after this season he’s had. No way we can max a one dimensional player like him who doesn’t play defense. He’s an over glorified Jordan Clarkson, if you can trade that for an all star while he’s young and has value you do it.

HE HAS THE HIGHEST USAGE ON THE TEAM IN THE REGULAR SEASON AND 2ND HIGHEST IN THE PLAYOFFS. HE LED THE TEAM IN SHOT ATTEMPTS THIS SEASON AND IS 2ND IN THE PLAYOFFS. He has all the opportunities in the world.

He’s not even much of an efficient scorer, his numbers jumped based on increase usage and shot attempts this year. His efficiency is even much worse in the playoffs. He is consistently a negative impact player. When he scores 3 points he turns around and gives away 6 on the other end.

If Herro was on some dog crap team like the people you want he would be putting up 25+ and you'd be ready to trade all our crap for consistent scoring.

I don't know why you're against paying Herro anyway, we already wasted one max contract, what's the problem with another?

Added that he's currently the only player who gives a damn to put your boy in position to score

Yea he would average 25 on 23 shots or some ****, that is not impressive at all. And his defense would still arguably be the worst in the league.

Name every player in the league who averages 19-10-4 while being arguably the best defender in the world. I’ll wait.

You’re disappointed in his scoring right now, and rightfully so but he does so much more than that and his impact on winning is huge. We do need him to be a scoring punch like he’s always been so hopefuilly that changes

And what does Beal get you? Washington would do that trade in a second, find some sucker in division to pay him a quarter billion.

I can take one look at the lineup and tell you who will score and who won't in it. How the hell the rotation got longer in the playoffs?

You don't find it strange that nobody except Give it to me Jimmy seems to know their role?

[eddieheatfan]

Watch on YouTube

[3ballbomber]

Is this really how we're going to react after each loss! This is the ECF, it's not the 1st, 2nd round. It was nvr going to be easy. Celts is a surviving squad in the east battling it out for an opportunity to make the NBA Finals. This was always going to be slug fest & a grind. We may even see ourselves down at one stage. This is how the PO's goes.

All they've done is even the series. They aren't even winning & people here are slitting their throats, completely giving up on our team, players & discussing trades. The f*ck is wrong w/ you

Spoiler:

We move on. Make the necessary adjustments w/ an opportunity to hit them back in gm3. Wake up, grow some balls & stop being a b*tch

Thank you for your attempt to stabilitze the topic, but I really hope the players are angry after watching the tape. I am expecting a response. Losing to the Celtics is always embarrassing and should be.

Wld anger be enough to spark Bam's courage!? A furious Bam dropping 20+pts wld be something to behold.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

If Herro was on some dog crap team like the people you want he would be putting up 25+ and you'd be ready to trade all our crap for consistent scoring.

I don't know why you're against paying Herro anyway, we already wasted one max contract, what's the problem with another?

Added that he's currently the only player who gives a damn to put your boy in position to score

Yea he would average 25 on 23 shots or some ****, that is not impressive at all. And his defense would still arguably be the worst in the league.

Name every player in the league who averages 19-10-4 while being arguably the best defender in the world. I’ll wait.

You’re disappointed in his scoring right now, and rightfully so but he does so much more than that and his impact on winning is huge. We do need him to be a scoring punch like he’s always been so hopefuilly that changes

And what does Beal get you? Washington would do that trade in a second, find some sucker in division to pay him a quarter billion.

I can take one look at the lineup and tell you who will score and who won't in it. How the hell the rotation got longer in the playoffs?

You don't find it strange that nobody except Give it to me Jimmy seems to know their role?

Beal is better right now than Herro will ever be. If the Wizards wouldn’t hesitate then we need to do that asap.

You sound like Chris Herro tbh.

Herros role has stayed the same all season, literally come off the bench and score lol. He’s just getting locked up in the playoffs because teams care.

[Hallstar]

Yea he would average 25 on 23 shots or some ****, that is not impressive at all. And his defense would still arguably be the worst in the league.

Name every player in the league who averages 19-10-4 while being arguably the best defender in the world. I’ll wait.

You’re disappointed in his scoring right now, and rightfully so but he does so much more than that and his impact on winning is huge. We do need him to be a scoring punch like he’s always been so hopefuilly that changes

And what does Beal get you? Washington would do that trade in a second, find some sucker in division to pay him a quarter billion.

I can take one look at the lineup and tell you who will score and who won't in it. How the hell the rotation got longer in the playoffs?

You don't find it strange that nobody except Give it to me Jimmy seems to know their role?

Beal is better right now than Herro will ever be. If the Wizards wouldn’t hesitate then we need to do that asap.

You sound like Chris Herro tbh.

Herros role has stayed the same all season, literally come off the bench and score lol. He’s just getting locked up in the playoffs because teams care.

smaller, worse shooter, worse defender, better player.

Got it

[3ammy3uck3ts]

And what does Beal get you? Washington would do that trade in a second, find some sucker in division to pay him a quarter billion.

I can take one look at the lineup and tell you who will score and who won't in it. How the hell the rotation got longer in the playoffs?

You don't find it strange that nobody except Give it to me Jimmy seems to know their role?

Beal is better right now than Herro will ever be. If the Wizards wouldn’t hesitate then we need to do that asap.

You sound like Chris Herro tbh.

Herros role has stayed the same all season, literally come off the bench and score lol. He’s just getting locked up in the playoffs because teams care.

smaller, worse shooter, worse defender, better player.

Got it

So Herro is a better player than Bradley Beal, is that what you’re trying to tell me?

[gom]

Have you cheerleaders for Beal been watching Beal recently?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bealbr01/gamelog/2022

This is not the way.

I know he's had it tough, playing 40 games last season, but he hasn't been very good on either side of the ball. Admittedly, his 7 for 32 performance beyond the arc in the last playoff series would fit right in though.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bealbr01.html

If Herro is traded, it better be for a real gamechanger. Beal is not the guy imho.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Have you cheerleaders for Beal been watching Beal recently?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bealbr01/gamelog/2022

This is not the way.

I know he's had it tough, playing 40 games last season, but he hasn't been very good on either side of the ball. Admittedly, his 7 for 32 performance beyond the arc in the last playoff series would fit right in though.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bealbr01.html

If Herro is traded, it better be for a real gamechanger. Beal is not the guy imho.

You mean the same playoffs he averaged 30-6-4-1-1 on solid scoring efficiency even with the bad 3 point shooting in the series?

Or the back to back seasons averaging 31-5-5?

Dudes better right now than Herro will ever be

[gom]

Butler's window is very narrow. Some of you see Beal as the answer. I remember when Westbrook was the preferred choice for some here. It wasn't that long ago. My preference is internal growth, but I'm not opposed to trading rising stars for players that can bring home a ring. I don't think Beal is the guy either.

Moving on... This thread is dead to me now. Sorry.