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As this Jimmy Butler debacle unfolds, I get memories of just how nasty Shaq's exit from Miami was.

Demanding a buy-out, refusing to practice, refusing to play, trashing team-mates behind their backs in the locker-room, running out SVG, almost fighting Pat, refusing to listen to the medical staff, and bad-mouthing the organization on his way out even after Micky made sure to send him to a good team.

Shaq only had ONE season as a superstar in Miami (04/05) and a solid second season despite his horrible 06 Finals showing. He was useless after that and a complete disruption during the 15-67 season.

I just can't believe he STILL can't get himself to admit he f'd up by leaving the Heat just 2 years before the Big 3. If he stayed through the tough times, he could have re-signed for the minimum and won another ring with the Big 3.

Watching him become The Big Journeyman, The Big Ring Chaser, etc. was sad. He never should have left Miami.

This Jimmy fiasco has gotten uglier by the day, but at-least he's done more for the Heat on the court than Shaq did. He may have never had an MVP-level season like 05 Shaq did, but Shaq rode Wade's coat-tails in 06 Finals before quitting on the team when the going got tough.

I think Shaq's exit was nastier. Riley AND Kobe both got the last laugh in regards to his feuds with both.

What do you think? Whose exit was nastier? 08 Shaq or current Jimmy?

I think this could make for an interesting discussion.

Shaq.

Jimmy is inexplicably still a Heat player

I'm not a Heat fan so I probably don't remember the Shaq drama as much with Riley. But for people too young to remember 2008 I can give neutral fan POV that when they traded him he seemed washed, and like they got handed a gift basket by the Suns giving them Marion in his apparent prime. One of my favorite trade reactions of all time since it seemed like the Suns lost their mind. But Shaq had rebound all star season for Suns and Marion declined so it seemed less ridiculous over time. Shaq on the Cavs was still considered the best 2nd banana first time Cavs Lebron had to date (says a lot), but I believe the defense wasn't good enough especially when added to the Jamison deal. He went to a great team on the Celtics and was putting up stats in very limited minutes but his body gave out and it was obviously the end of the line for Shaq. He wasn't going to win a title with the big 3, I forgot that he actually made it back in time to get a few garbage time playoff minutes for the Celtics but based on them not using him, I do not think his post injury form would've swung anything for the Heat. The Heat didn't miss that much with Shaq leaving, he wouldn't have helped peak Wade in 09 and 10 any more than Marion and Jermaine O'Neal. Yes Lebron was successful with 2010 Shaq and Wade wasn't that much worse tha Lebron, but there's a reason the Cavs won 66 games in 09 and the Heat 43, their depth was much better.

Shaq literally tried to fight Riley. Made petty remarks about teammates, including referring to Wade as “Wonder Boy”.

Jimmy just progressively became worst behind the scenes once he realized an extension was never coming. And then he quit on the court.

I’d say it’s about a push. The Heat were just more tolerable with Shaq, because he was Shaq. Jimmy? Not so much.

BFRESH44 wrote:Shaq literally tried to fight Riley. Made petty remarks about teammates, including referring to Wade as “Wonder Boy”.

Jimmy just progressively became worst behind the scenes once he was realized an extension was never coming. And then he quit on the court.

I’d say it’s about a push. The Heat were just more tolerable with Shaq, because he was Shaq. Jimmy? Not so much.

Ooh is this where the nickname "Boy Wonder" comes from?

I'd say they're fairly on par. There are a lot of similarities in the situations really, but I guess that's ageing superstars for you.

We won't get a player as good as Shawn Marion back in this Jimmy trade though. Not that he was great for us regardless.

Wiltside wrote:I'd say they're fairly on par. There are a lot of similarities in the situations really, but I guess that's ageing superstars for you.

We won't get a player as good as Shawn Marion back in this Jimmy trade though. Not that he was great for us regardless.

Marion was such a bad fit for us lol

Shaqs situation was a little different Shaq's ego didn't match where he was at as a player at the time. He had declined much more than Jimmy had and thought he was better than he was.


Little history:

After they won the chip in 06 the very next year many of the vets had taken their foot off the gas including Shaq. Wade was officially a superstar and having an incredible season but had to carry the team. Then the injury vs the Rockets happened. Instead of shutting it down and getting surgery he opted for rehab to try and defend the title. It was a bad move, he came back and even though he was still amazing he was clearly compromised. They get swept by the Bulls. He gets surgery on his Knee and shoulder in the offseason. Next year he plays but isn't the same and unable to carry the team. Shaq is also a year older, in sharp decline, clashing with Riley about his role and his conditioning. Roster isn't the best either, they're losing badly and have the worst record in the league that year, so that burns the whole thing down. Shaq gets traded in Feb for Marion.

If this rodeo continues past the trade deadline, the Butler saga may be the clear winner

As of now, Shaq for me.

He really went south quickly when he got upset and wanted out. Jimmy for the most part has kept relatively quiet compared to Shaq.
At least publicly.

Publicly: Jimmy

Privately: Shaq

I thought this was in the GB for some reason hence my history lesson, you guys know what happened didn't have to get into all that lol

Enso wrote:

Wiltside wrote:I'd say they're fairly on par. There are a lot of similarities in the situations really, but I guess that's ageing superstars for you.

We won't get a player as good as Shawn Marion back in this Jimmy trade though. Not that he was great for us regardless.

Marion was such a bad fit for us lol

Dont tell that to Riley though.. riley said Shawn will be Scottie Pippen to Dwyane Wade..


He also said lamar odom is the next magic johnson..

Vertical Limit wrote:

Enso wrote:

Wiltside wrote:I'd say they're fairly on par. There are a lot of similarities in the situations really, but I guess that's ageing superstars for you.

We won't get a player as good as Shawn Marion back in this Jimmy trade though. Not that he was great for us regardless.

Marion was such a bad fit for us lol

Dont tell that to Riley though.. riley said Shawn will be Scottie Pippen to Dwyane Wade..


He also said lamar odom is the next magic johnson..

Odom was sick imagine we kept him. Marions jumper was a space killer from the get go lol He was so used to getting easy looks on offence that I think he lost his joy playing slow half court offence he're.

Probably Shaq, but current social media didn't exist or not near to this level back then, so it didn't get as much coverage. Big difference is Jimmy mostly just wants money, I think if we gave him the money he wanted he'd be fine. Shaq was declining far more as a player and the team was falling apart, also calling out his teammates as other posters pointed out, it wasn't just a money/management thing.

That said, because of twitter and other such things, Jimmy's in the news a lot more and we get more small details. Can only imagine how much twitter would have blown up over the Shaq/Riley feud back in the day.

BFRESH44 wrote:Shaq literally tried to fight Riley. Made petty remarks about teammates, including referring to Wade as “Wonder Boy”.

Jimmy just progressively became worst behind the scenes once he realized an extension was never coming. And then he quit on the court.

I’d say it’s about a push. The Heat were just more tolerable with Shaq, because he was Shaq. Jimmy? Not so much.

bunch of Chris Quinns

Wiltside wrote:I'd say they're fairly on par. There are a lot of similarities in the situations really, but I guess that's ageing superstars for you.

We won't get a player as good as Shawn Marion back in this Jimmy trade though. Not that he was great for us regardless.

lol

that trade, was when Steve Kerr was GM of the Suns I think.

there was a hilarious article I read, that I still remember, from back then when the trade happened.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/8786-grand-daddy-shaq-to-phoenix-did-pat-riley-con-the-suns

"Let me just state for the record:

Pat Riley is a genius.

Pat Riley is a salesman.

And Pat Riley is also The Flim-Flam man.

If you combine all three into one, you have the making of one of the finest GM’s the NBA has ever seen...



Riley the Genius

He just traded Shaq O’Neal, "The Big Waste of a 20 Million Dollar Contract" to the Phoenix Suns for All-Star Shawn Marion, aka "The Matrix", as well as Marcus Banks

Miami Fans were in agreement: We traded our soul to the Devil for a Title four years ago

But since the NBA Championship, Shaq was in decline. Shaq had lost more then a step since he first came to the Heat. He had lost everything: his quickness, his shooting touch, his rebounding, his blocking ability, I mean everything. The only thing he had gained was weight and a boatload of injuries.

With three years left on his contract, at $20 million per, Miami and Riley were doomed.

Nobody would take Shaq. You couldn’t give him away. You couldn’t pay any team to take him off Miami's hands.

Or so we thought...

Riley: The Salesman and Flim-Flam Man

As the Flim-Flam Man (a gifted con artist), Riley could sell ice to the Eskimos, or in this case, an aging, hurt center, barely able to put on a uniform, $20 million a year player, to an unsuspecting NBA team.

Now most NBA GM’s confronted with such a daunting problem play the Old Soldier routine. Old GM’s never die; they just fade away, disappear, and leave all the problems they created for the next poor sucker. I’m sure Riley thought of that, but the old Willie Lohman of the NBA, felt he might have one more sale or trade up his sleeve.

Scanning the Elite Teams of the NBA, looking for his mark, or victim, Riley saw an opportunity. The Lakers just signed Pau Gasol, perhaps tipping the balance of power in the NBA’s Western Conference to the Lakers and away from the Phoenix Suns.

The Phoenix Suns were doubting themselves. Although they had the best record in the West, they were worried the Lakers might deny them the NBA Championship they covet so much.

Riley, the salesman calls Steve Kerr, GM of the Phoenix Suns. Steve being a new and inexperienced GM, would be easy prey for Rile’s slick way.

The conversation probably went something like this.

Riley: “Steve, I just heard that Memphis gave Pau to the Lakers. That’s not fair, there ought to be a law against that stuff. You guys were on the brink of winning your first title and some schmo just took it away from you. We’ll I’m here to remedy it. I can change all of that for you.”

Kerr: “How, Pat? Is Wade available?”

Riley: “Oh, this is way better than Wade. Can you spell Dynasty? We're talking titles here, at least three years for the Suns.

We, the Heat are willing to part, are you sitting down Steve? With the greatest player of all time, 14 times an All-Star, Regular Season MVP, and MVP three times in the finals, that’s Finals Steve.”

Kerr: “Shaq?!”

Riley: “That’s right. You’re probably thinking, why would Rile’s part with such a Super Star, and how could YOU, afford such a valuable piece like Shaq? Don't worry Steve, that’s the easy part. What’s important is, you reclaiming the lead in the West and bringing that Trophy home.”

Kerr: “But I heard Shaq was hurting.”

Riley: “Don’t believe all that stuff you read in the papers and NBA injury reports. Shaq was just playing possum so we can get a lottery pick. He’s in the best shape of his career.

Steve, you hate the Lakers don’t you? And you want to win the title? Then Shaq is the perfect fit for your system. He's just what you need, right?

Trust me Steve, just give us that malcontent, Marion, and we’ll take Banks lousy contract off your hands, then Rile’s will make it alright for Stevie.”

Kerr: “I don’t know Pat, It sounds really good, but I’ve got to talk to the owner.”

Riley: “Steve, this deal won’t last. Dallas is trying to get him right now as we speak. You delay, and you might miss an opportunity of a lifetime.

You're hurting my feelings. Its only because you’re my friend that I’m willing to give my buddy, Steve Kerr, such a smoking deal.

What do you say Steve, have we we got a deal?"

Kerr: “Yeah, let's do it! Send the papers over for me to sign”

Riley: “That's my boy Steve, you won’t regret it. Guaranteed Championship! And can we say, Exec of the year?!”

You must admit, this guy is slick. The Suns never had a chance.

You are a legend in your own time.

Pat Riley, I salute you.

Good question. I have no answer, but I will tell you this: I am fed up with hearing billionaires argue with millionaires about earning money they may or may not deserve. **** the nba. **** Jimmy. **** all this nonsense about discussing contracts. If you are under contract, shut your mouth till it has concluded. That should be written into all contracts. Fans don’t need to deal with this ****. We got enough going on than to worry about their contract extensions months or years from now.

Dr Positivity wrote:Shaq on the Cavs was still considered the best 2nd banana first time Cavs Lebron had to date (says a lot)

Prime Ilgauskas was better than the Cavs Shaq.

Jimmy. The amount of money Jimmy is losing is unfathomable.