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Shaq's Injury. Update on Pg. 4, Advised to shut it down?

Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2008 12:52 am
by Lane1974
Not only is Shaquille O'Neal's hip injury legit, it might be more serious than initially thought.
Or it just might be part of getting old.


http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_ba ... 101-h.html

what is the injury/retirement rule? 1/2 of his salary back to use in a trade (probably next year)? If he has to retire due to injury? Which might let everyone off the hook, he collects his $$$, we get some cap space back for him and can convert fully to Wade's team ASAP

Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2008 12:58 am
by Lane1974
. How do retired players count against the cap?

Any money paid to a player is included in team salary, even if the player has retired. For example, James Worthy retired in 1994, two years before his contract ended. He continued to receive his salary for the 1994-95 and 1995-96 seasons, so his salary was included in the Lakers' team salary in those seasons. It is at the team's discretion (or as the result of an agreement between the team and player) whether to continue to pay the player after he has retired.

There is one exception whereby a player can continue to receive his salary, but the salary is not included in the team's team salary. This is when a player is forced to retire for medical reasons and a league-appointed physician confirms that he is medically unfit to continue playing. There is a waiting period of one year following the injury or illness before a team can apply for this salary cap relief. If the waiting period expires mid-season (on any date prior to the last day of the regular season), then the player's entire salary for that season is removed from the team's team salary. For example, in March 2003 the Knicks were allowed to remove Luc Longley's entire 2002-03 salary from their books (and since the luxury tax is based on the team salary as of the last day of the regular season, the Knicks avoided paying any tax on Longley's salary). This provision can also be used when a player dies while under contract.

Teams are not allowed to trade for disabled players and then apply for this salary cap relief. Only the team for which the player was playing when he was disabled may request this relief.

If a player retires, even for medical reasons, his team does not receive a salary cap exception to acquire a replacement player.


DISABLED PLAYER EXCEPTION -- This exception allows a team which is over the cap to acquire a replacement for a disabled player who will be out for the remainder of that season (if the player is disabled between July 1 and November 30) or the following season (if the player is disabled after November 30). This exception can also be granted in the event of a player's death. This exception can only be used to acquire one player. The maximum salary for the replacement player is 50% of the injured player's salary, or the average salary, whichever is less (see question number 24 for the definition of "average salary"). Approval from the league (based on a determination by an NBA-designated physician) is required for this exception to be used. This exception can be used to sign a free agent, or to create room to accept a salary in trade. When used for trade, the team may acquire a player whose salary (including any trade bonus) is up to 100% of this exception plus $100,000 (not 125%). Also see question number 20 for more information on the availability and use of this exception.

If a player is disabled between July 1 and November 30, the team must acquire the replacement player within 45 days. If the player is disabled between December 1 and June 30, then the team has until October 1 to sign a replacement. If the disabled player comes back sooner than expected, then he may be activated immediately, and the replacement player is not affected. However, if the disabled player comes back before the exception is used, then the exception is lost.


Teams sometimes have had difficulty getting the NBA to approve an injury exception. For example, Danny Manning tore an ACL toward the end of the 1997-98 season, yet the NBA did not approve the Suns for this exception. More recently, the Magic did not receive this exception in 2003 for Grant Hill. However, this exception was granted in the 1999 offseason to San Antonio, so they could replace Sean Elliott, who was disabled due to kidney problems. This exception was also granted to Charlotte soon after Bobby Phills was killed.

Don't confuse this exception with the salary cap relief teams can apply for a year after losing a player to a career-ending injury or death (see question number 53). This exception allows a team to acquire a replacement player. The salary cap relief removes a contract from the books.


http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#19

Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2008 12:58 am
by G.cracker
It's too late to get the injury exemption this year. Not sure if the league awards if the following year or if it is one per player. But I doubt it is half. We only got friggin Cedric Ceballos for Zo. But if he announced retirement now, this year would count, and it would come off the books after next season, a year early, which means we could find a trading partner potentially as early as this summer.

Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2008 1:06 am
by G.cracker
Oh. So it's either/or and a team who trades for the player can't take advantage. Oh well. Then it gets tough. The injury exception would be for the MLE, not $10M, but with that in the summer would could plug two holes right away. However, that would likely mean our 2010 goal isn't helped since these contracts would overshoot Shaq and DWade's expiring deals. The alternative is he retires now, no relief, but we can go over the cap this summer and have $20M come off the books next summer before the tax hit.

Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2008 1:10 am
by Lane1974
I say medical retirement and not disability... moves our rebuilding up a year

Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2008 1:18 am
by IndoorOutdoor
Im down with anything that bumps up the rebuilding

Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2008 1:28 am
by G.cracker
Here are the scenarios (rounded up or down to half mils):

SHAQ DOES NOT RETIRE BUT IS LOST FOR THIS SEASON AND WE GET THE INJURY EXCEPTION TO USE BEFORE 10/1

07-08 08-09 09-10 10-11 11-12
Shaq $20M $20M $20M
Wade $13 $14.5 $16 (hold 18)
UD $6 $6.5 $7 (hold 8)
Blount $7 $7 $8
Cook $1 $1 $1 $2 $3
full MLE $6 $6.5 $7 $8 $9
full MLE $6 $6.5 $7 $8 $9
#1 pick $5 $5 $5 $7 $9
and possibly
Wright $2 $3 $3.5 $4 $4.5 (if we match a Charlie Bell type deal)
Quinn $.7 $1.5 $1.5

Figuring we'd have to go full 5 to get top notch MLE guys, we're looking at still having $25M in 2010, plus having to hold $26 to potentially resign UD and Wade, so we'd have $51M committed... certainly not enough free space to get a Lebron or Brand if they are free.

versus

SHAQ RETIRES NOW

07-08 08-09 09-10 10-11 11-12
Shaq $20M $20M
Wade $13 $14.5 $16 (hold 18)
UD $6 $6.5 $7 (hold 8)
Blount $7 $7 $8
Cook $1 $1 $1 $2 $3
full MLE $6 $6.5 $7 $8 $9
#1 pick $5 $5 $5 $7 $9
and possibly
Wright $2 $3 $3.5 $4 $4.5 (if we match a Charlie Bell type deal)
Quinn $.7 $1.5 $1.5

which means in the summer of 09, we'll have $48 committed and in 10 $21 committed and holding another $26, totaling $47. In this scenario we could potentially geta max player in 09 and another in 10 before re-upping Wade.

Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2008 1:32 am
by Lane1974
Riley's plan is now coming to fruition

mwa ha ha

Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2008 1:35 am
by Flash is the Future
I really don't think we'd get an injury exception if Shaq couldn't play the rest of this season...

Only if he retired...

Never mind. Just read through it. We might get it next season.

Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2008 1:38 am
by Lane1974
retirement would be best for all - Shaq doesn't have to go out there injured/declining, he can leave with his head up, insurance would pay for most of his salary, and we get cap room a year earlier...

make it happen, Dr. Selesnick

Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2008 1:39 am
by lalalisa
No way Shaq retires right now. He thinks too much of his legacy to go out with this much of a whimper.

Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2008 1:42 am
by G.cracker
per the rules, we can't get one if he retires. The league would determine if we get one (essentially an extra MLE to use by 10/1 since it is less than the $10M 50% of his deal), and would probably give it since he is a vital piece of the team (and league) and his salary is such a big portion. We got it for Zo and he came back later that year! Shaq just couldn't come back until we used the MLE or we'd lose it. I doubt he'd mind. But if he retires (I doubt he wants to go out like this), then the league waits a calendar year and if he's still retired, his salary will come off the books next year and the year after, even though Arison still pays him $40M. BUT, we can't trade him and have the receiving team get that benefit.

Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2008 1:43 am
by Rampage
He has declined so much that there's a legit argument for retiring to preserve his legacy. He has got absolutely nothing left to prove.

Of course, as a Heat fan I'd like to see him retire. It'd be the best thing for all parties.

Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2008 1:45 am
by G.cracker
Gotta say this... with his pending divorce/ fight for custody and visitation and interest in a second career in law, maybe this is an easier choice than we think. My peeps in MBPD say since he split with Shaunie he's in his office a lot. Even after games.

Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2008 1:46 am
by Lane1974
G.cracker wrote:per the rules, we can't get one if he retires. The league would determine if we get one (essentially an extra MLE to use by 10/1 since it is less than the $10M 50% of his deal), and would probably give it since he is a vital piece of the team (and league) and his salary is such a big portion. We got it for Zo and he came back later that year! Shaq just couldn't come back until we used the MLE or we'd lose it. I doubt he'd mind. But if he retires (I doubt he wants to go out like this), then the league waits a calendar year and if he's still retired, his salary will come off the books next year and the year after, even though Arison still pays him $40M. BUT, we can't trade him and have the receiving team get that benefit.
yeah, but I am sure insurance covers that 40M (especially since I can't recall Shaq having prior hip problems), which is a big issue. And the 20M per year in cap space.

Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2008 1:50 am
by G.cracker
yeah, insurance probably covers 80% or $16M of it or so.

Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2008 1:56 am
by Flash3
Shaq's not going to go out like this. No way. No how.

Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2008 2:00 am
by Lane1974
why not? Does he seem inspired to you? Has he seemed inspired since the title in the teeniest bit? He can't physically perform anymore. He seems weary of it all for me. If his hip is bothering him (and even Ira says its legit and bad) and the NBA docs declare him permanently hurt, this is a perfect way to go out. He can still collect his full $, he has a million other interests. Not everyone goes out like John Elway.

Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2008 2:02 am
by IndoorOutdoor
We can only pray..

Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2008 2:13 am
by Flash3
Lane1974 wrote:why not? Does he seem inspired to you? Has he seemed inspired since the title in the teeniest bit? He can't physically perform anymore. He seems weary of it all for me. If his hip is bothering him (and even Ira says its legit and bad) and the NBA docs declare him permanently hurt, this is a perfect way to go out. He can still collect his full $, he has a million other interests. Not everyone goes out like John Elway.
Inspired in the least bit.

But, he'll probably shut it down this season, to try and heal up and give it a shot next season. -- I just can't see Shaq 'giving up'.