PG Raptors - East Group B 1-0

[Ron Swanson]

Yep, the stats back it up:

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/shots-closest-defender-10?CloseDefDistRange=6+%20Feet%20-%20Wide%20Open&dir=D&sort=FG3_PCT

We're shooting 34.6% on wide open 3's which is 27th in the NBA. At the same time though, we're only generating the 15th most open 3's, and that speaks to a larger problem. Being 15th and 21st respectively on wide open and open (4-6 ft closest defender) attempts is pretty trash when you've had Dame and Giannis together for 9-games. People can hate Brook and Bobby launching 3's above the break, but I'd 100% rather them do that than Bobby post-ups and guys dribbling into contested mid-rangers. This game was at least promising in the "hopefully Doc is starting to get it with the math game" department.

[machu46]

I swear there's not a more frustrating shot right now than watching Brook chuck up a 3. Dude's 26% on the season.

He's so slow to shoot it and generally so deep too that it almost always feels like a bad shot, but he has admittedly made so many of them over the years.

[machu46]

I swear there's not a more frustrating shot right now than watching Brook chuck up a 3. Dude's 26% on the season.

Bobby is 24% from deep with 3.5 attempts. But Brook is over 5 attempts. Both are just trash this year.

For historically decent/good 3 pt shooters, its crazy how guys like Bobby, Brook, Pat, GTJ and Wright are all below 28%. That is 5 should be rotation guys all 8-10% below they recent avg's and the latter 2 have fallen out of the rotation b/c of it. Hard to predict that kind of thing going into the season.

This and the fact that we've lost a few close games to good teams is what has me holding out hope that we're going to be alright (almost certainly not winning a title or anything but still a solid playoff run).

I can't remember the graphic but someone had posted one of those charts of basically NBA power rankings based on opponent strength and stuff and we were like top 10-15ish so far this season?

It really feels like we're normal shooting away from being one of the best teams in the pathetic East.

[machu46]

Yep, the stats back it up:

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/shots-closest-defender-10?CloseDefDistRange=6+%20Feet%20-%20Wide%20Open&dir=D&sort=FG3_PCT

We're shooting 34.6% on wide open 3's which is 27th in the NBA. At the same time though, we're only generating the 15th most open 3's, and that speaks to a larger problem. Being 15th and 21st respectively on wide open and open (4-6 ft closest defender) attempts is pretty trash when you've had Dame and Giannis together for 9-games. People can hate Brook and Bobby launching 3's above the break, but I'd 100% rather them do that than Bobby post-ups and guys dribbling into contested mid-rangers. This game was at least promising in the "hopefully Doc is starting to get it with the math game" department.

I know the math backs up what the Celtics are doing, but for the sake of my viewing pleasure, I really don't want to get to the point where 60% of our shots as a team are 3's or whatever Boston is at right now. But yeah, we obviously do need to get more 3's up than we have been (and hit them at the rates you'd expect our shooters to hit).

[-Jragon-]

Was thinking exactly the same thing. We are barely an NBA team.

The amount of actions and movement for both teams was other worldly compared to our no brains iso blah

Yeah... coaching too.. When I was annoyed Doc said nothing on media day, I was assured by my fellow brothers in here that after a full training camp and preseason that it would be clear what our strategy and Doc's system is.... Almost half of November is gone and I still don't see it, hear about it or know. There are more good ideas in here than anything I see Doc do.

Also, if we had a real coach he would tell a guy 0-3 or 1-4 on 3s to drive, pass or sit down for awhile (unless you're Dame or Khris)... how do we let the 3 stooges go 4-22 every game from 3.. it's confusing

We don't have real coaching.. I really think we're mostly still confused, players too, on where to go on offense and defense STILL.. are we hoping it clicks by April again?

It seems like our game plan is to let the open guy shoot. This results in Pat C., Bobby, Trent & co. taking a lot of shots.

This puts the pressure back on Dame and Giannis to take bad shots to claw back into games, but they miss as well.

We basically take what the defense gives, which makes sense, but then we are relying on our not so good players to win and keep us in games, so... we are playing into other teams traps.

We are also currently a$$ on defense. It is a copy cat league. So a lot of these young teams are copying what works for teams like Boston, so we struggle against them too.

They are taking a Giannis 1 for 2 or 0 for 2 from the free throw line all day, while jacking up high % 3's the whole game. Then come playoff time, teams will bit%# about how unfair the Giannis whistle was in the regular season, the refs will let the teams play more, Giannis will get the ball stolen or miss bunnies he normally gets calls on.


If we can't set a screen, it will be difficult to run set offensive plays. We have been running give Giannis the ball, let him run down hill for a dunk or lay up for 8+ years. Defenses in the NBA can shut down our slow half court team that doesn't set quality screens.

From watching summer league, Tyler Smith seems not afraid to set a screen and was semi- successful.

There seems to be a lot of learning on the job happening right now. Hopefully, things start to click and players get comfortable.

I don't mind them using the regular season to set up stuff for the post season as long as Dame and Giannis buy in and don't ask for a trade. The losses are frustrating, but if they can unlock some useful set plays, I think we all would be happy.

Bud did a better job of hiding individual players weaknesses. It seems like Doc and even Griff, were more so implimenting their systems and making players try to adjust to the system.

Great analysis and points. You're probably right about the 'open man shoot' system and maybe it's not just chaos yolo bs. But at this stage ANYTHING Giannis and Dame do with the ball is better than them Stooges shooting open shots (because their ceiling is just higher if they get hot it's game over). We need to adjust once a guy is 0 - 3 or 1- 4 and admit it's not on that day and you're open for a reason so attack the hoop, draw and kick with that space instead or get a different role player in and let that dude work his shot kinks out in practice instead of games.

[BigO]

I've stated this for a few years, but if the Bucks continue to use Giannis at the top of the key and have him create all the time, he will wear out.

He has to have a low post game as he ages. Having it as a third or fourth option for a guy with his size and strength is malpractice. Sure, when the playoffs start, have him create more, but he is wearing out fast by overusing him in the regular season.

And I'm not talking about minutes played. I'm talking about the kind of minutes when he's on the court.

[buckboy]

So apparently, according to Raptors' fans at least, Gradey Dick never hunted for contact, all his fouls were legit and we did not play good defense on him(not even once) that's why he shot 16 fts. That's why he spent half the game on the floor.

I really hope we don't sniff our own farts that much in here about our own role players.

If you read the Raptors board you get what you deserve. There is no bigger collection of nutjobs on RealGM. They make the general board seem sane by comparison.

[DanoMac]

Yep, the stats back it up:

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/shots-closest-defender-10?CloseDefDistRange=6+%20Feet%20-%20Wide%20Open&dir=D&sort=FG3_PCT

We're shooting 34.6% on wide open 3's which is 27th in the NBA. At the same time though, we're only generating the 15th most open 3's, and that speaks to a larger problem. Being 15th and 21st respectively on wide open and open (4-6 ft closest defender) attempts is pretty trash when you've had Dame and Giannis together for 9-games. People can hate Brook and Bobby launching 3's above the break, but I'd 100% rather them do that than Bobby post-ups and guys dribbling into contested mid-rangers. This game was at least promising in the "hopefully Doc is starting to get it with the math game" department.

I know the math backs up what the Celtics are doing, but for the sake of my viewing pleasure, I really don't want to get to the point where 60% of our shots as a team are 3's or whatever Boston is at right now. But yeah, we obviously do need to get more 3's up than we have been (and hit them at the rates you'd expect our shooters to hit).

Never forget when we first hired Bud and he implemented the "let it fly" mindset. Man had Henson shooting 3's

[jschligs]

I've stated this for a few years, but if the Bucks continue to use Giannis at the top of the key and have him create all the time, he will wear out.

He has to have a low post game as he ages. Having it as a third or fourth option for a guy with his size and strength is malpractice. Sure, when the playoffs start, have him create more, but he is wearing out fast by overusing him in the regular season.

And I'm not talking about minutes played. I'm talking about the kind of minutes when he's on the court.

I agree, but after he worked out with Hakeem and I saw no marked improvement I'm worried he just doesn't have it much like his FT shooting.

[Ron Swanson]

People need to let the Giannis post-up dream die.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/playtype-post-up

0.79 PPP (18th percentile) .....woof

Dude isn't Hakeem and he never will be. We need to stop trying to force him into being something he's not. Meanwhile, the Giannis "ISO at the top of the key" numbers, aka the playstyle that everyone loves to hate, is still much more effective than turning the greatest downhill force in modern NBA history into a back-to-the-basket plodder.

P&R ball-handler: 1.00 PPP (71st percentile)
ISO: 1.19 PPP (85th percentile)

[Milbucks96]

I've stated this for a few years, but if the Bucks continue to use Giannis at the top of the key and have him create all the time, he will wear out.

He has to have a low post game as he ages. Having it as a third or fourth option for a guy with his size and strength is malpractice. Sure, when the playoffs start, have him create more, but he is wearing out fast by overusing him in the regular season.

And I'm not talking about minutes played. I'm talking about the kind of minutes when he's on the court.

I agree, but after he worked out with Hakeem and I saw no marked improvement I'm worried he just doesn't have it much like his FT shooting.

You either have it or you don’t. Giannis play style is ugly and probably detrimental to his body but it’s effective. As long as his shot selection and decision making is on point, you gotta take the good with the bad because it is what it is at this point.

[CharityStripe34]

Stats don't tell the whole story. Last year was one of his best offensive seasons and that included occasional post ups against favorable match ups. Teams generally tend to shade or double which opens up the floor.

The issue is not pick and roll or post up it's the blatant disaster this team has been at consistently making teams pay for having a major gravitational force. We've all seen time and time again in the playoffs dudes bricking open shots.

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