Redd Is Becoming The New Ray Allen For Me

[xTitan]

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LBJ got 51 tonight on 28 shots to go along with 8 boards and 9 assists...

That's getting it done...

Maybe with Mike, LBJ could get a little more 1 on 1 coverage to have a few more of these...

Go get someone worth trading then talk to us

[El Duderino]

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I think you're overestimating the defensive prowess of most PGs in the NBA. There are a couple standouts and the a lot of very average ones. Mo's not good but he's not the sieve that so many make him out to be.

This about as unscientific as it gets but charting the Bucks opposition, but in 51% of the Bucks games the starting guard opposite Mo has scored above their average (19 above, 18 below). For the sake of reference, the number is 50% for Mike's games (17/17).

If he was as among the worst, wouldn't you believe the percentage to be higher?

In general, just using points scored is a poor way to judge how a guy defended during a game. Let's say Mo is defending Chris Paul.

A certain numbers of points by Paul could be scored while Mo is on the bench or for various reasons Mo wasn't on Paul when he scored. On the flip side, Paul could burn Mo numerous times via penetration or Mo playing a pick and roll bad which leads to Paul creating an easy basket or a wide open shot for one of his teammates.

For what it's worth, i don't think Mo is a bad defender because he's just lazy on that end of the court like say Villanueva is. Some games this year i've focused close on Mo playing defense because it's frustrated me that a guy who plays hard, plays hurt, and IMO who clearly cares about winning doesn't improve defensively.

What struck me was how poor his anticipation was/is. Mo doesn't seem to have any feel for when he's about to get picked. Good or even decent defenders react quickly and instinctively to an offensive players first move on penetration, Mo way to often gets stuck to the floor on that initial move and by the time he reacts to it, it's to late and the guard is past him.

A lot of times people want to believe if a guy just plays hard, he'll be a good defender, as if it's not also a skill that some players have more of. Mo IMO could give more effort defensively, but part of it isn't his fault, i don't think effort alone can cover up some of his lacking instincts as a defender.

[BucksRuleAll22]

How do you have no regrets of trading Ray Allen. This was one of the worst trades in the last 10 years.

Mason + Payton for 30-40 games for Ray Allen. Sonics got a 5th overall pick for a old Ray Allen.

[Tug0bwerdna]

There was a time I was the biggest Ray Allen fan around. I thought he was a fine player and I was thrilled he was playing for the Bucks. The run to the Eastern Conference Finals was memorable and it was great to see Ray play so well. I was a huge fan.

But not long after my opinion about him began to change. He was still a fine player but it became clear he wasn't the right leader this team needed and it was clear this team was never going to go anywhere meaningful with him as its best player. So I welcomed the decision to trade him and to this day I have no regrets about it.

Flash forward a few seasons to Michael Redd. I'm obviously a big Redd fan. He's one of the top SGs in the league and he's the only player on this team who's proven to be close to All-Star caliber on a consistent basis. By no means is he primarily responsible for the bad season this team is having and the bottom line is this team would be a helluva lot better if just once they had even one player as good as he is - something that has never been the case since he became a starter.

That said, Redd is starting to morph into Ray Allen for me. I realize it's an over-reaction to allow one quarter against a vastly superior team to lead me to draw such a conclusion. But last night, watching Redd and Mo tear down the team's chances to spring an upset while Bogut was asserting himself again as the team's best player had me cringing. This is what I saw from Ray - a very good player but maybe not the right type of player for this team if it's going to ultimately contend.

I'm not advocating a Redd trade. I don't think it's in the team's best interests to dump him for expirings and picks and crap like that. Frankly, after the last two games I'd rather see the team get rid of Mo and begin the search for a true standout PG. But I've said many times before that if the system changed and Redd didn't get on board then I'd be fine with dealing him. I saw some signs of that last night and it troubled me.

My hope would remains for the Bucks to make this Bogut's team and for him to respond accordingly with Redd in the "Reggie Miller" role I've envisioned for him for years. I think that would ultimately give the Bucks best chance to become a contender. But if the former occurs and the latter cannot then I think it will be time to move Redd, just as it became time to move Ray a few seasons ago.

Hindsight is 20:20. You don't really want to trade Redd, you just want to be able to say "I told you so", if the Bucks ever do. Nobody really wanted Allen to leave, just like nobody really wants Redd to leave.

[Chapter29]

What struck me was how poor his anticipation was/is. Mo doesn't seem to have any feel for when he's about to get picked. Good or even decent defenders react quickly and instinctively to an offensive players first move on penetration, Mo way to often gets stuck to the floor on that initial move and by the time he reacts to it, it's to late and the guard is past him.

This is something that I have mentioned on several occasions. I see it all the time with Mo.

He is very active and hardworking on defense (outside of fighting through screens) and he is very much quick enough, but his anticipation skills I don't think could be any worse. I am not sure you can improve this trait, you either have it or you don't. This is why I have little faith in him improving defensively.

[paulpressey25]

I don't think Mo likes fighting through screens.....for whatever reason....but it's been a problem since he's been here.

I've watched Bell and Ivey D up the past few weeks as now they sometimes get the PG assignment. There is a major difference as to how those guys handle screens versus Mo.

[europa]

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Hindsight is 20:20. You don't really want to trade Redd, you just want to be able to say "I told you so", if the Bucks ever do.

Hardly. I meant what I said and it has nothing to do with 20-20 hindsight. You're right, I don't want to see Redd traded and I hope he isn't - unless the deal is too good to turn down or unless the situation degenerates into something where he just has to go - which is the point of this entire thread. Trust me, the last thing you'll see from me is to pull a Michael Hunt.

Nobody really wanted Allen to leave, just like nobody really wants Redd to leave.

I wanted him gone; I applauded the trade at the time and to this day I still think it was the move the team had to make even if it didn't transpire the way the Bucks envisioned. You'll never see a single criticism from me of the Ray Allen trade.

He is very active and hardworking on defense (outside of fighting through screens) and he is very much quick enough, but his anticipation skills I don't think could be any worse. I am not sure you can improve this trait, you either have it or you don't. This is why I have little faith in him improving defensively.

Ditto. Mo's problem defensively isn't a lack of effort most of the time. He simply lacks the basketball smarts and ability to defend well. And Press is right, the next screen Mo tries to fight through will be one of his first. He's one of the team's worst offenders when it comes to sliding under screens and giving the ballhandler plenty of space for open jumpers.

[Chapter29]

You applauded the Allen for Payton trade?

Oh my. The worst trade ever. Both at the time and in hindsight.

I know we could talk through the salary side of it and how it in some peoples opinion worked out, but the talent exchange was a joke.

[europa]

You applauded the Allen for Payton trade?

Oh my. The worst trade ever. Both at the time and in hindsight.

I know we could talk through the salary side of it and how it in some peoples opinion worked out, but the talent exchange was a joke.

You have to remember where things were at then. At that point, Ray had frustrated Karl (and me) beyond belief with his soft play, refusal to truly work at his game and become an elite player and his putrid defense. That team badly needed a spark and Payton was still regarded as a top-level PG with strong defense and leadership skills. Plus Dez was regarded around the league as a major up-and-coming young talent. As it turned out, Payton hated the idea of coming to Milwaukee and his play reflected it and Dez never became the star many people around the league believed he would. But at the time, nearly every analyst raved about the trade for the Bucks and said it made them a legitimate contender in the East. Few people criticized the trade at the time because it was quite clear Ray had to go.

So yea, I applauded the trade then because I was also of the belief that the Bucks were going nowhere with Ray as their best player. So even if the trade didn't work out as envisioned, you won't see me pull a Hunt and change my opinion of the trade in hindsight.