Harris to blame for not getting Billups?

[midranger]

Of course not. At least we can now put that one to bed.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archi ... n_detroit/


"I know a lot of teams knew from the jump, getting me to leave here wasn't going to be easy," said Billups, who signed a five-year, $60 million deal with Detroit that includes the final year being partially guaranteed. "Like I told you before, this is where I wanted to be from the very beginning of my free agency, up until it was over. That was my whole thing; I wanted to come back here, finish my career here. I want to be a Piston and hopefully win a couple more championships and have my name hanging up there in the arena. It would have taken something really, really special for me to even consider leaving Detroit."

[europa]

Who blamed Harris for the Bucks not getting Billups?

[paulpressey25]

Mid...I don't think any of us blamed Harris here.

The "special" thing to get Chauncey to leave would have been a 5-year/$70mm guaranteed contract which we could have offered him. But Kohl had no interest in spending that type of coin on a 30-year old guard.

That would have been $25mm more than he got guaranteed by Detroit.

And such an offer would have had only two outcomes:

a) We get a top 3 PG and are doing much better this year.

or

b) Someone finally forces the Pistons to have to pay to keep their players.

Failure to go hard after Billups was IMO the move that we could have made this off-season to turn the ship around but didn't. It wouldn't have cost us Yi.

[Comet]

I don't blame Harris at all. Signing Billups was just a pipe dream. It certainly wouldn't have made us title contenders, but it would've, IMO, given us a great chance at securing home-court advantage, or maybe even better. Attendance would be up, and even though Billups isn't getting any younger he might've been able to perform at an all-star level long enough to convince the taxpayers to get a new arena, which would've prompted Herb Kohl to sell this team without the fear of relocation.

That might sound like a lot, but that's the truth. There's a reason Billups was an MVP candidate a few years ago. He's a good on-ball defender, playmaker, leader, and perimeter shooter and he would've made this team better.

Now, I like Mo, and after Billups re-signed with Detroit I didn't want him to end up in Miami, but I just think Billups is a better player.

[Simulack]

I don't blame Harris at all. Signing Billups was just a pipe dream. It certainly wouldn't have made us title contenders, but it would've, IMO, given us a great chance at securing home-court advantage, or maybe even better.

Even with Yi and Mason/Bobby as our starting forwards? IMO its going to be hard to win even with Billups as our PG when we have such below average starters at two spots (with back-ups who equally bad) and a below average bench.

Off the top of my head, its hard to think of any teams who have got home court advantage with such obvious weaknesses in their starting line-up except one that has a top-5ish type overall player in the NBA (like the Cavs).
Billups, while a very good player, obviously isn't.

I'm not too upset about missing out on him.

Anyway, sounds like we had NO chance to get him regardless of what we offered which is what most of us though anyway. Could have forced the Pistons to pay more though as PP said.

[Comet]

Even with Yi and Mason/Bobby as our starting forwards? IMO its going to be hard to win even with Billups as our PG when we have such below average starters at two spots (with back-ups who equally bad) and a below average bench.

Off the top of my head, its hard to think of any teams who have got home court advantage with such obvious weaknesses in their starting line-up except one that has a top-5ish type overall player in the NBA (like the Cavs).
Billups, while a very good player, obviously isn't.

I'm not too upset about missing out on him.

Anyway, sounds like we had NO chance to get him regardless of what we offered which is what most of us though anyway. Could have forced the Pistons to pay more though as PP said.

That's part of the problem. Another problem is that we have Mo and Mike starting together in our backcourt. Billups and Mike probably wouldn't be a problem at all, because Billups balances the offense more than Mo does.

And keep in mind that this is the East. Boston and Detroit are the only two elite teams in the NBA that are in the East. The rest of the Eastern Conference playoff picture is up for grabs.

I didn't say we would a great team. But we probably would be competing for at least a decent playoff spot had we signed Billups.

[Fight the Tank]

I believe the Bucks record would be reversed with Billups in there instead of Mo.

[jerrod]

I believe the Bucks record would be reversed with Billups in there instead of Mo.

then you are out of your mind

[midranger]

Having Billups means no Mo, no Bell, no Mason, no Voskuhl.

So we're talking huge minutes for Bobby, Gadz, and Ivey all year. With guys like Storey actually catching all the backup SF/SG minutes.

If you think we're a winning team with that situation, you're crazy.

[showtimesam]

Having billups makes us a far better team no question.

Wow... no bell, mason, or voskuhl, what the hell would we do to win games with all of their contributions this season? (sarcasm)

Billups plays the right way, tough defender, great floor general. Mo is a young im proving pointguard, but he is no where near billups status.

Don't even use stats, because Chauncey plays in a total team concept and does what it takes to win so its not about numbers.

But anyone that would suggest this team wouldn't be drastically better with billups just doesn't recognize the impact of a tough as nails, near elite point guard that knows how to make his teammates better.

[Max Green]

I was one of the people who blamed Harris for not signing Billups, but I pretty much knew that it we had slim chance from the beginnning.

What I'm still upset about is not signing Gerald Wallace, with him on our team even with our current makeup and Yi starting at PF, we would be an above 500. team.

[midranger]

Make fun of Bell, Mason, and Voskuhl all you want, but there is a reason why they continue to play ahead if the guys behind them. Mainly because the guys behind them are even (somehow) worse, which means the guys behind those guys are even (almost unfathomably) worse. No Bell, Mason, and/or Voskuhl means that you have two tiers of worse players now getting big minutes.

Having Billups probably wins us a couple more games at this point, but nothing Earth shattering.

[Simulack]

But anyone that would suggest this team wouldn't be drastically better with billups just doesn't recognize the impact of a tough as nails, near elite point guard that knows how to make his teammates better.

I've watched Billups since he was at Colorado and have always been a fan. That said, he didn't start making players around him better until his sixth season in the NBA when he was suddenly surrounded by above average players at nearly every position on the floor.

Have him play significant minutes with guys like Yi, Simmons, Mason, Ivey etc and he doesn't look nearly as good.

This team has too many problems: no starting caliber 3 or 4 and a weak bench that is even worse if we had signed Chauncy. That team isn't doing anything significant.

[midranger]

-= original quote snipped =-



I've watched Billups since he was at Colorado and have always been a fan. That said, he didn't start making players around him better until his sixth season in the NBA when he was suddenly surrounded by above average players at nearly every position on the floor.

Have him play significant minutes with guys like Yi, Simmons, Storey, Ivey etc and he doesn't look nearly as good.

This team has too many problems: no starting caliber 3 or 4 and a weak bench that is even worse if we had signed Chauncy. That team isn't doing anything significant.

Fixed. We'd have no Mason.

Your Chauncey Bucks


Billups - Ivey
Redd - Storey
Simmons - Storey
Yi - CV
Bogut - Gadzuric

This assumes that Simmons could have stayed healthy to play 36 minutes per night, every night from the start of the season. I have my doubts.

[GrandAdmiralDan]

Mid...I don't think any of us blamed Harris here.

The "special" thing to get Chauncey to leave would have been a 5-year/$70mm guaranteed contract which we could have offered him. But Kohl had no interest in spending that type of coin on a 30-year old guard.

That would have been $25mm more than he got guaranteed by Detroit.

And such an offer would have had only two outcomes:

a) We get a top 3 PG and are doing much better this year.

or

b) Someone finally forces the Pistons to have to pay to keep their players.

Failure to go hard after Billups was IMO the move that we could have made this off-season to turn the ship around but didn't. It wouldn't have cost us Yi.

I wanted to chime in on this thread too.
The above is the best way to summarize the situation.

It should also be pointed out that Harris REALLY can't be blamed for Billups not signing here. We made Billups a backchannel offer to play here that wasn't even a token over, it was insulting. A 5 year $45 mil offer. And it was made by someone else in the front office, not Harris.

Another example of the dysfunctional front office. Harris didn't make our initial offer to Charlie Bell either. Herb Kohl did that himself. 3 years, $6 mil. And Kohl was so clueless that he thought Bell would jump all over that deal as if we were somehow giving him more than other teams would.

Having Billups means no Mo, no Bell, no Mason, no Voskuhl.

So we're talking huge minutes for Bobby, Gadz, and Ivey all year. With guys like Storey actually catching all the backup SF/SG minutes.

If you think we're a winning team with that situation, you're crazy.

Well, we would have been able to make the kind of offer PP25 mentioned without having to get rid of Bell's small cap hold, so I would not say it would have definitely meant "no Bell"
If you're guessing that we would have elected not spend the actual dollars on Bell after spending money on Billups, well that is possible, but it wouldn't have been a certainty by any means.

It would definitely have meant no Mo and no Mason.

No Voskuhl? Maybe not, but he would have had to sign somewhere if he wanted to keep playing, and since he could no longer take $3 mil from us, he probably would have signed somewhere for a minimum salary contract, so we might have still been able to sign him with the MSE. Or we could/would have signed another Voskuhl-type player with the MSE (we ended up signing a shorter player of that type of player in Ruffin anyway), and having Billups on the roster would have made recruiting that type of player easier. Maybe Chris Webber would have wanted to sign here for the MSE in order to follow Billups here, who know?