OT: Purdue @ Indiana

[LUKE23]

so luke , as a UW guy, do you really beileve there is a UW / Illinois rivalry? or a UW / MSU rivalry? or are you just throwing those out for the sake of arguing? Do you really get pumped up when UW plays ILL? Did you get pumped up more playing MSU this year or Purdue? or do you get pumped up for every tough game UW plays? if you say every tough game, then you never really had a rivalry with any team. All you had was a tough game on your schedule. purdue could have 20 losses, but if they beat IU, Painter keeps his job. if Purdue wins 20 games but consistantly loses to IU, Painter gets fired. Keady found that out. he didn't really retire on his terms.

let's face it. there are not very many true rivalries in Big ten basketball. The Big ten doesn't have a Duke/USC or a kansas/Kansas St. Memphis and tennesee is not a true rivalry match as much as tenn/florida is. kentucky /Louisville is a rivalry. UW and marquette is a rivalry.

I don't believe a guy from UW can truely speak about Illinois or MSU without having lived in either state or even knowing anybody from either state or school. Tough games do not make rivalries. Purdue and UW are not rivals despite the fact Purdue owns UW inside Mackey Arena. purdue and butler are not rivals- never have been - although a purdue / Butler game would be a good game and close game between two good teams. I doubt UW would ever think of UW green bay or UWM as a rival although both schools could have given UW a good run for your money.

I never said the IU /Purdue basketball rivalry was on the same level as the Mich/OSu football rivalry was. I said it's as big as far as big ten basketball goes. I guess it's kind of obvious very few of you have ever attended an IU / Purdue game. even when both teams are bad, it's still an intense game worth going to.

I guess the term rivalry is lost on the younger generation. You have no clue what a rivalry really is other than what ESPN tells you on rivalry week.

Reed, the fact that you think you know more just because you've lived in Indiana and experienced both schools somehow makes me laugh. Keep spewing it though....

[MajorDad]

Luke , you must be on drugs , pills or some type of medication. My serious posts make you laugh. That's funny. perhaps I should charge you a fee. Listening to Roger Clemens makes me laugh. I am not a crook! I have never gambled on baseball.

When you went to Mexico, did you have the opportunity to see how the other half lives? Did you get to see the true Mexico? or did you just do the American tourist spots and bars? Did you get to talk and meet the true mexican or just the waiters and tour guides? Did you get a chance to see where and how they live? I mention this because they are two sides to Mexico- the one that the media shows to the world and the real one. I've also been to mexico twice, and I walked away and saw the real country - the part that doesn't have the pizza huts and KFCs. Living in beardstown, I've also had the opportunity to know a lot of illegal aliens working for Cargill who recruited them.. i don't claim to smarter than others about mexico, but i do have first hand knowledge about their people..

That's where i come across as not being smarter than you, luke, but rather more knowledgeable and experienced. You can't really know what a true rivalry is until you've lived it and seen both sides of it. You can't really know how big a rivalry is until you are part of it and had the opportunity to see it from both sides. I had no idea how big of a rivalry Alabama / Auburn was until I lived in Alabama and worked for Auburn. They think the Mich /OSu rivalry is small compared to theirs. I had no idea how big the OSU / Mich rivalry was until I lived in Dayton. Purdue people think they have a big football rivalry with Notre Dame. if you go to South Bend, they would laugh at Purdue people thinking that game is a huge rivalry.

Too many people today are caught up in the notion that a rivalry has to have some sort of national impact. ESPN wants you to believe that memphis and tennessee are big rivals so that you will watch the game. the reality is that neither school or its fans cares much about the other school. they do care that their tea m wins this week. one game does not a rivallry make.

what you call rivalries are not really rivalries in basketball. they are big games. I'm quite sure nobody at MSU is getting excited about their game with Illinois this year. To be a true rival, you are always pumped up about the match no matter how good or bad each team is. every single year, not every other yea r when bot h teams are good- but every single year. UW always wants to beat marquette and vice versa. You talk about that game at work, at home and on the internet. you don't care how good or bad the other team is. you just want to beat them. That's a rivalry. I'm quite certain as a UW fan, you got really excited about playing OSU and Oden last year. Did you think of OSU as a big rivalry game? or was it just a big game? MSU gets pumped up when they play michigan. but Michigan could care less about MSU. it's just another game on their schedule.

This is why i say, you have to have lived in the area or have been part of the school to know if a game or a team is a true rivalry. a guy who lived his entire life in Wisconsin has no real knowledge about what people in illinois or Michigan think. People in Illinois get more jacked up about playing Northwestern, IU and Michigan than they do about playing MSU. mSu is a tough game, but it's not a rivalry game. if you haven't lived in michigan or Illinois, you can't truely speak for them. rather than just spewing out Illinois and MSU is a big rivalry because the y bot h had good teams in the past few years,, it would have more meaning and believability if you were actually an ilini or MSu alum. Why not ask Randoph about that rivalry? or D Williams as to what the true Illni rivalries were. Who knows? D Williams might say playing Southern illinois was a big rivalry.

Experience > intelligence.

[trwi7]

Luke , you must be on drugs , pills or some type of medication. My serious posts make you laugh. That's funny. perhaps I should charge you a fee. Listening to Roger Clemens makes me laugh. I am not a crook! I have never gambled on baseball.

When you went to Mexico, did you have the opportunity to see how the other half lives? Did you get to see the true Mexico? or did you just do the American tourist spots and bars? Did you get to talk and meet the true mexican or just the waiters and tour guides? Did you get a chance to see where and how they live? I mention this because they are two sides to Mexico- the one that the media shows to the world and the real one. I've also been to mexico twice, and I walked away and saw the real country - the part that doesn't have the pizza huts and KFCs. Living in beardstown, I've also had the opportunity to know a lot of illegal aliens working for Cargill who recruited them.. i don't claim to smarter than others about mexico, but i do have first hand knowledge about their people..

That's where i come across as not being smarter than you, luke, but rather more knowledgeable and experienced. You can't really know what a true rivalry is until you've lived it and seen both sides of it. You can't really know how big a rivalry is until you are part of it and had the opportunity to see it from both sides. I had no idea how big of a rivalry Alabama / Auburn was until I lived in Alabama and worked for Auburn. They think the Mich /OSu rivalry is small compared to theirs. I had no idea how big the OSU / Mich rivalry was until I lived in Dayton. Purdue people think they have a big football rivalry with Notre Dame. if you go to South Bend, they would laugh at Purdue people thinking that game is a huge rivalry.

Too many people today are caught up in the notion that a rivalry has to have some sort of national impact. ESPN wants you to believe that memphis and tennessee are big rivals so that you will watch the game. the reality is that neither school or its fans cares much about the other school. they do care that their tea m wins this week. one game does not a rivallry make.

what you call rivalries are not really rivalries in basketball. they are big games. I'm quite sure nobody at MSU is getting excited about their game with Illinois this year. To be a true rival, you are always pumped up about the match no matter how good or bad each team is. every single year, not every other yea r when bot h teams are good- but every single year. UW always wants to beat marquette and vice versa. You talk about that game at work, at home and on the internet. you don't care how good or bad the other team is. you just want to beat them. That's a rivalry. I'm quite certain as a UW fan, you got really excited about playing OSU and Oden last year. Did you think of OSU as a big rivalry game? or was it just a big game? MSU gets pumped up when they play michigan. but Michigan could care less about MSU. it's just another game on their schedule.

This is why i say, you have to have lived in the area or have been part of the school to know if a game or a team is a true rivalry. a guy who lived his entire life in Wisconsin has no real knowledge about what people in illinois or Michigan think. People in Illinois get more jacked up about playing Northwestern, IU and Michigan than they do about playing MSU. mSu is a tough game, but it's not a rivalry game. if you haven't lived in michigan or Illinois, you can't truely speak for them. rather than just spewing out Illinois and MSU is a big rivalry because the y bot h had good teams in the past few years,, it would have more meaning and believability if you were actually an ilini or MSu alum. Why not ask Randoph about that rivalry? or D Williams as to what the true Illni rivalries were. Who knows? D Williams might say playing Southern illinois was a big rivalry.

Experience > intelligence.

This post reminds me that I have to watch Billy Madison sometime soon.

[LUKE23]

Luke , you must be on drugs , pills or some type of medication. My serious posts make you laugh. That's funny. perhaps I should charge you a fee. Listening to Roger Clemens makes me laugh. I am not a crook! I have never gambled on baseball.

When you went to Mexico, did you have the opportunity to see how the other half lives? Did you get to see the true Mexico? or did you just do the American tourist spots and bars? Did you get to talk and meet the true mexican or just the waiters and tour guides? Did you get a chance to see where and how they live? I mention this because they are two sides to Mexico- the one that the media shows to the world and the real one. I've also been to mexico twice, and I walked away and saw the real country - the part that doesn't have the pizza huts and KFCs. Living in beardstown, I've also had the opportunity to know a lot of illegal aliens working for Cargill who recruited them.. i don't claim to smarter than others about mexico, but i do have first hand knowledge about their people..

That's where i come across as not being smarter than you, luke, but rather more knowledgeable and experienced. You can't really know what a true rivalry is until you've lived it and seen both sides of it. You can't really know how big a rivalry is until you are part of it and had the opportunity to see it from both sides. I had no idea how big of a rivalry Alabama / Auburn was until I lived in Alabama and worked for Auburn. They think the Mich /OSu rivalry is small compared to theirs. I had no idea how big the OSU / Mich rivalry was until I lived in Dayton. Purdue people think they have a big football rivalry with Notre Dame. if you go to South Bend, they would laugh at Purdue people thinking that game is a huge rivalry.

Too many people today are caught up in the notion that a rivalry has to have some sort of national impact. ESPN wants you to believe that memphis and tennessee are big rivals so that you will watch the game. the reality is that neither school or its fans cares much about the other school. they do care that their tea m wins this week. one game does not a rivallry make.

what you call rivalries are not really rivalries in basketball. they are big games. I'm quite sure nobody at MSU is getting excited about their game with Illinois this year. To be a true rival, you are always pumped up about the match no matter how good or bad each team is. every single year, not every other yea r when bot h teams are good- but every single year. UW always wants to beat marquette and vice versa. You talk about that game at work, at home and on the internet. you don't care how good or bad the other team is. you just want to beat them. That's a rivalry. I'm quite certain as a UW fan, you got really excited about playing OSU and Oden last year. Did you think of OSU as a big rivalry game? or was it just a big game? MSU gets pumped up when they play michigan. but Michigan could care less about MSU. it's just another game on their schedule.

This is why i say, you have to have lived in the area or have been part of the school to know if a game or a team is a true rivalry. a guy who lived his entire life in Wisconsin has no real knowledge about what people in illinois or Michigan think. People in Illinois get more jacked up about playing Northwestern, IU and Michigan than they do about playing MSU. mSu is a tough game, but it's not a rivalry game. if you haven't lived in michigan or Illinois, you can't truely speak for them. rather than just spewing out Illinois and MSU is a big rivalry because the y bot h had good teams in the past few years,, it would have more meaning and believability if you were actually an ilini or MSu alum. Why not ask Randoph about that rivalry? or D Williams as to what the true Illni rivalries were. Who knows? D Williams might say playing Southern illinois was a big rivalry.

Experience > intelligence.

The definition of a rivarly is two teams that have each experienced continued overall success, as well as mostly balanced success in the rivalry game, along with geographical or other ties that adds to the hatred. Illinois and Northwestern is a rivalry game? Haha. Impossible, because Northwestern hasn't been good at basketball, EVER. A rivarly is two good teams with longstanding tradition of playing each other, where one team does not dominate the matchup. Purdue/Indiana is a rivalry, but it's nowhere near any of sports great rivalries. How many people outside of Indiana even talk up the Indiana/Purdue game?

[Epicurus]

Ah, now the majoritarian fallacy. The greatness of a rivary (something between two parties) is not measured by how many folks view it as great or talk about it. The intensity of the parties is what defines its level, along with the duration of that intensity. Ergo, IU/Purdue in basketball, a great rivary.

[MikeIsGood]

Comparing the rivalry to OSU/Michigan football, which is at worst the second best college rivalry in sports (Duke/UNC basketball) is asinine. Neither Indiana nor Purdue have been elite teams in many a year. Just because both teams play in Indiana doesn't mean it's one of the best rivalries in sports.

It could be argued the best in the Big Ten, COULD BE. Wisconsin/Illinois, Illinois/Michigan State and Wisconsin/Michigan State is right there if you're talking about recent (last decade) rivalries, given how much those teams have battled in the last 6 seasons and the disdain the coaches have for each other.

Take your medication reed.

Well it really wasn't that long ago that Indiana had an elite team. They were in the Championship game in 2001 or 2002.

But that's the hangup on this issue. One side is talking about the past 10 or 15 years, while the other is talking about historically.

Most of the major sports rivalries have historical precedence. Packers/Bears, Lakers/Celtics, Tarheels/Blue Devils, Buckeyes/Wolverines, Tigers/Tide, Knights/Midshipmen. Those are just off the top of my head. Even those that don't have much relevance to the National scene anymore, like the aforementioned Army/Navy game, are still considered among sports' greatest. I certainly don't put Indiana and Purdue into that category (no where near Ohio State and Michigan, IMO), but it has more historical precedence than any other rivalry in the Big Ten.

For the record, I would consider it the best in the Big Ten right now.

The flip side is looking at who has been good recently. The teams that have sustained success over the recent memory of fans and made for good games. Wisconsin made their Final Four run in 2000, a year that also saw Michigan State see that success (and win). Since then, the matchup has usually been significant in the B10 race. Same goes for Illinois. I'd say they're developing rivalries, and more relevant to the current scene overall (though if Purdue and Indiana continue success into the future that will certainly be relevant as well), but they lack the historical impact and prolonged hatred so many teams have between schools.

In general, I think basketball rivalries are for the most part overblown. Way more significant in football, IMO, and it really isn't close. Duke and North Carolina, sure. And a few others, too. But the impact of winning one game doesn't mean as much as much in basketball as it does in football, when Alabama beating Auburn could end their perfect season and hopes of a Championship. Granted, that is also part of the beauty of it. Anything can happen in March once you're in the tournament, and you may get a chance at revenge. The fans of the schools sometimes get up for it, and that's good for them, but I don't know about anyone else - when Michigan and Ohio State, Auburn and Alabama, Southern Cal and Notre Dame, Duke and North Carolina in basketball are on, I make a point to watch it. I think most of the Country does.

Lots of seemingly more casual Badger fans like to make a big deal whenever we play Iowa and Minnesota. In football, sure. The history and significance is there. Even if Minnesota does suck. In basketball? It's just another game until Tubby or Lichliter turn things around. Michigan State and Illinois is where it's at. Prolonged history or not.

That's my two cents.