Stotts offense. What it IS and what it is NOT

[carmelbrownqueen]

I agree that using the Stotts offense is a good thing for this team for right now.. however my reasoning is a little different than what some have expressed in this thread. I will agree that it definitely helps the guards if they are able to take open shots because it doesn't make them second guess themselves offensively and lose confidence. One of the things I noticed adversely affecting the game of Michael Redd and to a certain degree Mo Williams was not knowing when it was "okay" to take the shot. They would have a wide open shot and would miss it because they appeared to think that they were doing the exact opposite of what was expected of them (by the coaching staff), which made not only them but others on the team inefficient offensely. Yes, inside out offense is great when it works well but we haven't gotten to the point where our big men are proficient in playing the inside game.

My reasoning for wanting to run somewhat of a Stotts offense is that Bogut still isn't ready offensively to be Tim Duncan-esque for this team. He still can't consistently hit a shot outside of 10 feet of the basket and I think you need that to successfully make the offense work when you play that way. This is actually similar to the problem Dwight Howard complained about last year in Orlando (he's been quiet this year even though they still don't consistently run the ball through him this season either).. these big guys want the ball run through them more, but when they get it they have to be able to hit the shot. PHX with Amare, the Spurs with Tim Duncan, and even Dallas with Dirk N. are all successful when they do run the ball through their big men because those guys can hit a shot when they do get the ball. Bogut has had some good games this year, especially on the defensive end of the court, but his lack of a jumper makes an offensive scheme that STRICTLY depends on dumping the ball inside difficult to stick too or win with because teams figure out quickly that these big guys aren't going to hit their shots even when left wide open. Hopefully he can continue working on that and develop something close to a consistent jumper (and finish around the basket better because that has been an issue at times also)... because then and only then will we be able to run the kind of dump it inside kind of offense many of you have been screaming for.

ETA: I'm not sure that Bogut is going to become a good shooter even though he was believed to have been a good shooter in college.. however, I think Yi Jianlian is going to be a consistent shooter from everywhere on the court within the next couple of years. Bogut may not ever be "happy" with his role because sooner or later if he doesn't develop his jumper the talk won't be able running the ball through him.. it will be about running the ball through Yi.

Yi has all the tools to be that guy who can hit inside and outside shots consistently.. all he needs is more experience and to strengthen his body so he can get there.

[1377]

Milwaukee Bucks :

Where highly paid professional basketball players run 8th grade offense so they don't have to "Think".

[jerrod]

Milwaukee Bucks :

Where highly paid professional basketball players run 8th grade offense so they don't have to "Think".

you forgot "happens"

[ReasonablySober]

I agree that using the Stotts offense is a good thing for this team for right now.. however my reasoning is a little different than what some have expressed in this thread. I will agree that it definitely helps the guards if they are able to take open shots because it doesn't make them second guess themselves offensively and lose confidence. One of the things I noticed adversely affecting the game of Michael Redd and to a certain degree Mo Williams was not knowing when it was "okay" to take the shot. They would have a wide open shot and would miss it because they appeared to think that they were doing the exact opposite of what was expected of them (by the coaching staff), which made not only them but others on the team inefficient offensely. Yes, inside out offense is great when it works well but we haven't gotten to the point where our big men are proficient in playing the inside game.

My reasoning for wanting to run somewhat of a Stotts offense is that Bogut still isn't ready offensively to be Tim Duncan-esque for this team. He still can't consistently hit a shot outside of 10 feet of the basket and I think you need that to successfully make the offense work when you play that way. This is actually similar to the problem Dwight Howard complained about last year in Orlando (he's been quiet this year even though they still don't consistently run the ball through him this season either).. these big guys want the ball run through them more, but when they get it they have to be able to hit the shot. PHX with Amare, the Spurs with Tim Duncan, and even Dallas with Dirk N. are all successful when they do run the ball through their big men because those guys can hit a shot when they do get the ball. Bogut has had some good games this year, especially on the defensive end of the court, but his lack of a jumper makes an offensive scheme that STRICTLY depends on dumping the ball inside difficult to stick too or win with because teams figure out quickly that these big guys aren't going to hit their shots even when left wide open. Hopefully he can continue working on that and develop something close to a consistent jumper (and finish around the basket better because that has been an issue at times also)... because then and only then will we be able to run the kind of dump it inside kind of offense many of you have been screaming for.

ETA: I'm not sure that Bogut is going to become a good shooter even though he was believed to have been a good shooter in college.. however, I think Yi Jianlian is going to be a consistent shooter from everywhere on the court within the next couple of years. Bogut may not ever be "happy" with his role because sooner or later if he doesn't develop his jumper the talk won't be able running the ball through him.. it will be about running the ball through Yi.

Yi has all the tools to be that guy who can hit inside and outside shots consistently.. all he needs is more experience and to strengthen his body so he can get there.

You completely hit the nail on the head.

[MightyReds2020]

I'm an outsider, and I've barely watched any of the Bucks' past 4 games, but your description of their offense Sigra sounds so much like the Stevie Franchise-Cat Mobley ISOs in their stint together with the Rockets in late 90s. You know, the kind of offense that dragged the league down for a few years because those were "selfish" offense.

It looks good sometimes, but has very little potential. It may not a bad choice for the time being, as you've said, but the Bucks have to commit to developing their bigs (Bogut & Yi) no matter how ugly they play sometimes. Well, unless you guys are still trying to make the playoffs.

[old skool]

The Bucks offense is OK. It is good enough to compete in the NBA. The key for success long term is for the Bucks to improve their defense.

Regardless of the offensive scheme, it seems to be a good idea to have your most efficient shooters (Redd and Williams) shoot more than your less efficient shooters (Bogut, CV, Yi et al.) Add in that Redd and Mo take some forced shots at the end of a possession and that they are good free throw shooters - the best offense is one where Mo and Redd take more than their share of shots.

I wonder if the Celtics' fans were calling for Pierce and Allen to shoot less and get the ball to Kendrick Perkins when KG was hurt and the Celts were losing games?

oLd sKool

[LUKE23]

The Bucks offense is OK. It is good enough to compete in the NBA. The key for success long term is for the Bucks to improve their defense.

Regardless of the offensive scheme, it seems to be a good idea to have your most efficient shooters (Redd and Williams) shoot more than your less efficient shooters (Bogut, CV, Yi et al.) Add in that Redd and Mo take some forced shots at the end of a possession and that they are good free throw shooters - the best offense is one where Mo and Redd take more than their share of shots.

I wonder if the Celtics' fans were calling for Pierce and Allen to shoot less and get the ball to Kendrick Perkins when KG was hurt and the Celts were losing games?

oLd sKool

That really isn't a very valid comparison, given that Perkins has never been an offensive player (he's there for shotblocking and rebounding) and both Allen and Pierce are better than anyone on our current roster.

[carmelbrownqueen]

Kendrick Perkins and Andrew Bogut aren't similar players.. however they both share a similar deficiency right now in that neither is a good offensive player and honestly not until this season could many say that Bogut was better than an average defensive player (at best). So in a way I think old skool's comparison is valid to consider..

We need to develop Yi Jianlian and Andrew Bogut, but neither player is quite at the level where the only offensive options we run on this team are centered around either of them. Neither of them is that good yet.. and their weaknesses at times (when we failed to adjust from the inside out game not working during the course of a game) has helped contribute to some losses with this team this season. So running a version of Stotts old offense makes sense for the time being..

[LUKE23]

Kendrick Perkins and Andrew Bogut aren't similar players.. however they both share a similar deficiency right now in that neither is a good offensive player and honestly not until this season could many say that Bogut was better than an average defensive player (at best). So in a way I think old skool's comparison is valid to consider..

We need to develop Yi Jianlian and Andrew Bogut, but neither player is quite at the level where the only offensive options we run on this team are centered around either of them. Neither of them is that good yet.. and their weaknesses at times (when we failed to adjust from the inside out game not working during the course of a game) has helped contribute to some losses with this team this season. So running a version of Stotts old offense makes sense for the time being..

The comparison isn't valid at all. Perkins on his best day isn't as good as Bogut on his worst with regards to offense, as average as Bogut has been in his career. On top of that, with KG out the Celtics still have two multiple time all-stars in Allen and Pierce on the floor, while the Bucks have one one-time all-star in Redd.

Boston and Milwaukee's situations are nothing resembling similar, nor are Bogut and Perkins in relation to offense. Even when the Celtics were winning 20 games Perkins wasn't a focus whatsoever in the halfcourt offense.

[carmelbrownqueen]

I think the point being made by old skool (correct me if I am wrong old skool) was less about both players being exactly comparable in terms of their abilities. But more a discussion about how players who are not good offensive players aren't typically having their teams offense being run through them... Like I said earlier, with the understanding that Dwight Howard is a far superior player to Bogut, even he has complained that his teams offense should be run through him (last year) and they still haven't done that partly because of his poor offensive abilities at this point in his career. Although Dwight still gets the ball a lot of what he is doing is using his superior athleticism, strength and size to make things happen. He may not still be happy with his role.. but if you don't have that developed kind of offensive game it makes it very very hard to run a strict inside out offense. Therefore if teams with more dominant bigs like Dwight Howard aren't running the ball through them, then why are we so adamant about running the ball through Bogut who also isn't the developed offensive player we need him to be?

I want to develop Bogut and Yi so that they can be a bigger part of our offense but these guys aren't ready and sometimes we have to adjust until they are.. therefore it isn't all about the deficiencies of our guards but the deficiencies of our bigs that hold us back also.

[ryan7999]

I want to develop Bogut and Yi so that they can be a bigger part of our offense but these guys aren't ready and sometimes we have to adjust until they are.. therefore it isn't all about the deficiencies of our guards but the deficiencies of our bigs that hold us back also.

But isn't this the best time to be developing their offensive game? Why not throw these guys in the deep end for the rest of the year because I can't see us making the playoffs.

[carmelbrownqueen]

-= original quote snipped =-



But isn't this the best time to be developing their offensive game? Why not throw these guys in the deep end for the rest of the year because I can't see us making the playoffs.

They have been thrown in the deep end..however throwing them in the deep end does not mean we have to run a strict inside out offense 100% of the time. It isn't effective yet especially with our front court still trying to figure all of this out.

[ryan7999]

I agree it shouldn't be like that the entire game, the problem is that the Team doen't seem to be able to pick what the best option is when they are playing In Out Offense, they need to be told at the start of each quarter. The benefit of the Stotts offense is that it is a very simple decision.

For example when we were focusing on going through Bogut people would be ignoring open jumpers and forcing inside passes, on the flip side Bogut (or even CharlieV) will make 1 or 2 good moves and then fail to see the ball again for another 10 minutes.

One thing I have noticed when we play the Stotts Offense (i.e. The centre setting alot of top of the key screens ) is that Bogut rarely gets a pick and roll offensive opportunity when he sets the pick for Redd or Mo (mainly Redd) but Danny G will get 2-3 a game (and without fail misses them) even with his limited minutes. I don't know the reason for this, maybe they don't respect DannyG enough or Bogut isn't rolling hard enough but if they could also increase this aspect of the offense it would add another dimension that is sorely needed.

[NeedsMoreCheese]

Sigra, I've seen you bandwagon and then sell out every single player on this team (including Mo and Redd) at least 7 times.

It's cool. I do it too, but you are certainly John Kerry-esque.

Its funny because its true.