http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/23245923/
Bye bye cheater.
OT: Kelvin Sampson Done
Moderators: MickeyDavis, paulpressey25
OT: Kelvin Sampson Done
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LUKE23
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ReasonablySober
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MajorDad
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and that we can agree on! good riddens Sampson. he broke several more unwritten ethical rules signing gordon awa y from Illinois. No love lost.
I feel bad for Alford. An ESPN or FOX sports announcer said that this would have been the right time for Alford to go back to IU, but it's the absolute wrong time to leave his current job in new mexico after only being there for 1 year for IU. they said if he leaves new mexico now for IU, his potential recruits would view him as a job jumper.
I feel bad for Alford. An ESPN or FOX sports announcer said that this would have been the right time for Alford to go back to IU, but it's the absolute wrong time to leave his current job in new mexico after only being there for 1 year for IU. they said if he leaves new mexico now for IU, his potential recruits would view him as a job jumper.
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MajorDad
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I couldn't believe they hired Sampson in the first place. They hired him knowing he trashed the Oklahoma program. IU had several very respected coaches interview for the job , but still hired Sampson.
Epi would have been a much better choice. Epi is knowledgeable about the game, and honest.
Do you think larry K might place his name for consideration? Hopefully? as a Purdue alum, I'd love for Larry K to be IU's next coach.
Epi would have been a much better choice. Epi is knowledgeable about the game, and honest.
Do you think larry K might place his name for consideration? Hopefully? as a Purdue alum, I'd love for Larry K to be IU's next coach.
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Epicurus
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Hell, I don't even know how to do a three way call on a cell phone. I am completely safe.
Although I was not for Sampson's appointment, due to his rather cavalier behavior with ethics and his recruits at OU, I really like the guy's coaching. But the hubris of doing at IU what got you in trouble at OU, when you pledged not to overwhelms. What was he thinking? Maybe at OU one needs to bend rules to recruit decently, but IU is a different story. He now stands to lose a plum job and one that his style and performance would have made him a legend.
Although I was not for Sampson's appointment, due to his rather cavalier behavior with ethics and his recruits at OU, I really like the guy's coaching. But the hubris of doing at IU what got you in trouble at OU, when you pledged not to overwhelms. What was he thinking? Maybe at OU one needs to bend rules to recruit decently, but IU is a different story. He now stands to lose a plum job and one that his style and performance would have made him a legend.
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shaolin34
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my oldest brother has been the men's basketball sports information director at oklahoma for the past 10+ years, and the color commentator for their radio broadcasts for the last 5. he is as close with sampson as just about anyone from oklahoma, and i've had the opportunity to meet sampson several times and even viewed his practices when i did an internship down there. watching him bust these players during practice was incredible, and it showed that the players all loved him. the man is an incredible coach, and he helped rebuild that program into an annual big 12 contender, something they hadn't been since the days of wayman tisdale. what he did for that program will forever outweigh what he did to "trash" that program.
i don't recall him ever signing a top high school player while at ou, but he excelled at bringing in top juco players. when they had hollis price as their star and couldn't get over that hump he recruited ebi ere from some junior college, and they made the final 4 down in atlanta (ironically losing to indiana). i still don't understand why he felt it necessary to keep breaking the ncaa rules when he was so good at getting top juco players. ou still excels at bringing in these players, which shows that the program has adopted his philosophy of getting juco players even after he has gone. sampson deserves to be punished, but i'm still sad it came to this. he still has a lot of fire left in him and i'm sure he'll catch on somewhere.
i don't recall him ever signing a top high school player while at ou, but he excelled at bringing in top juco players. when they had hollis price as their star and couldn't get over that hump he recruited ebi ere from some junior college, and they made the final 4 down in atlanta (ironically losing to indiana). i still don't understand why he felt it necessary to keep breaking the ncaa rules when he was so good at getting top juco players. ou still excels at bringing in these players, which shows that the program has adopted his philosophy of getting juco players even after he has gone. sampson deserves to be punished, but i'm still sad it came to this. he still has a lot of fire left in him and i'm sure he'll catch on somewhere.
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MajorDad
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people in Illinois hate Sampson for the way he stole gordon on the national signing day . he gave Gordon's AAU coach a job and gordon's father's friend a job, and then gordon called up Illinois at 11:30 PM the night before the signing day and said he was definitely coming to Illinois. Who do i blame for the lies that were told that night to Coach weber of Illinois? Gordon? or Sampson? obviously Sampson's telephone records will soon become public information. Obviously he spoke to gordon after he talked to Weber.
Sampson ma y be a grea t coach, but the NCAA has a lot of rules. There is an NCAA requirement that coaches must have a Bachelor's degree. That mean's they are supposed to be smart enough to read the NCAA rules book.
When Sampson came to IU, he had an assistant coach that had been at IU for more than a decade. he had never broke n one NCAA rule. but within 6 months of Sampson's arrival, he had broken several rules multiple times. Do I blame Sampson or Myers?
Sampson made his other assistant coach resign as a scapegoat in October.
Sampson lied to the NCAA investigation team and lied to the I U administration about his actions.
he may be a great coach, but to do the exact same violation at two different schools knowing that he would be under a microscope at IU is either an act of a very stupid person, or one who has broken many other rules along the way but never got caught.
You say Sampson recruited a lot of juco players and they all loved him. i have t o wonder how muc h the y were being paid under the table to share their love for him. i have to wonder how many other rules violations Sampson has broken along the way.
it's kind of like saying pettitte only took hgh twice. no wait, it was 3 times, no wait, it was 3 years.
Sampson ma y be a grea t coach, but the NCAA has a lot of rules. There is an NCAA requirement that coaches must have a Bachelor's degree. That mean's they are supposed to be smart enough to read the NCAA rules book.
When Sampson came to IU, he had an assistant coach that had been at IU for more than a decade. he had never broke n one NCAA rule. but within 6 months of Sampson's arrival, he had broken several rules multiple times. Do I blame Sampson or Myers?
Sampson made his other assistant coach resign as a scapegoat in October.
Sampson lied to the NCAA investigation team and lied to the I U administration about his actions.
he may be a great coach, but to do the exact same violation at two different schools knowing that he would be under a microscope at IU is either an act of a very stupid person, or one who has broken many other rules along the way but never got caught.
You say Sampson recruited a lot of juco players and they all loved him. i have t o wonder how muc h the y were being paid under the table to share their love for him. i have to wonder how many other rules violations Sampson has broken along the way.
it's kind of like saying pettitte only took hgh twice. no wait, it was 3 times, no wait, it was 3 years.
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shaolin34
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i was speaking more about sampson from his time at oklahoma, not indiana. i do realize that the gordon recruiting fiasco was incredibly shady. i cannot blame the illinois fanbase for loathing him, i would too. and i don't defend what he did, i just continue to question why he felt it necessary to continually break rules at both ou and indiana when he's a decent high school recruiter and a great juco recruiter.
based on his illegal actions it's fair to say that he's more likely than the average college coach to have used additional illegal recruiting activities to juco players, but i doubt anything actually occured. i think a good junior college player needs very little additional incentive to come to a major college program from a little no-name school.
there are plenty of coaches at all levels that command so much respect and love from their players, and having spent a good amount of time down there i can tell you that sampson was definitely one of them. just seeing the number of players, from nba players like eduardo najera and ryan humphries (hey, he was drafted!) to walk-ons, who came back for the season dinners, or scrimmage against the current team, or just to check in and see how the team was doing was amazing. i'm sure it happens at a lot of great college programs, i'm just saying that sampson was a part of one. hopefully his dismissal will act as a wake up call to him and he'll get his head back together, because he really is a good coach. i hope he gets another chance in the future.
based on his illegal actions it's fair to say that he's more likely than the average college coach to have used additional illegal recruiting activities to juco players, but i doubt anything actually occured. i think a good junior college player needs very little additional incentive to come to a major college program from a little no-name school.
there are plenty of coaches at all levels that command so much respect and love from their players, and having spent a good amount of time down there i can tell you that sampson was definitely one of them. just seeing the number of players, from nba players like eduardo najera and ryan humphries (hey, he was drafted!) to walk-ons, who came back for the season dinners, or scrimmage against the current team, or just to check in and see how the team was doing was amazing. i'm sure it happens at a lot of great college programs, i'm just saying that sampson was a part of one. hopefully his dismissal will act as a wake up call to him and he'll get his head back together, because he really is a good coach. i hope he gets another chance in the future.
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MajorDad
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I think part of his problem at IU stems from the huge Purdue / IU basketball rivalry!
The IU basketball program traditionally goes after Indiana / OHio / Illinois high school players and not Juco players. recruiting a high school player is a very long and hard procss. you have got to get in the door early, and continue to woo that person until they finally sign. The typical high school teenager breaks up with his girlfriend at least three times, and decides on a new major at least twice before graduating. it's understandable that the high school player will change his mind about college choices as well.
I believe Sampson felt very pressured to come through and sign the best high school players he could. there is a lot of competition for the best indiana high school players from Purdue, Ohio St, Michigan and North Carolina. Very seldom does the Indiana Mr Basketball play for an in state team. i would believe the pressures of recruiting at Indiana are a lot higher than at oklahoma. Oklahoma competes with OK state, texas and Kansas for the best players around. but if you can't land a stud high school player, a juco is available to fill the hole. IU likes to have all their holes filled by high school players. That's not always the case, but it is the norm. keith Smart was a juco guard who did quite well for Bobby Knight.
I don't know the real harm done about making a three way call with a player other than you can play good cop and bad cop and have 2 coaches pressure a recruit at the same time.
But the bad part about it is that Sampson swore that this type of infraction would never happen again on his watch and then he goes and does it again. and then he lies to the NCAA investigators about it. The worst thing a coach ca n do is lie to an NCAA investigator. he'll get fired every time.
The IU basketball program traditionally goes after Indiana / OHio / Illinois high school players and not Juco players. recruiting a high school player is a very long and hard procss. you have got to get in the door early, and continue to woo that person until they finally sign. The typical high school teenager breaks up with his girlfriend at least three times, and decides on a new major at least twice before graduating. it's understandable that the high school player will change his mind about college choices as well.
I believe Sampson felt very pressured to come through and sign the best high school players he could. there is a lot of competition for the best indiana high school players from Purdue, Ohio St, Michigan and North Carolina. Very seldom does the Indiana Mr Basketball play for an in state team. i would believe the pressures of recruiting at Indiana are a lot higher than at oklahoma. Oklahoma competes with OK state, texas and Kansas for the best players around. but if you can't land a stud high school player, a juco is available to fill the hole. IU likes to have all their holes filled by high school players. That's not always the case, but it is the norm. keith Smart was a juco guard who did quite well for Bobby Knight.
I don't know the real harm done about making a three way call with a player other than you can play good cop and bad cop and have 2 coaches pressure a recruit at the same time.
But the bad part about it is that Sampson swore that this type of infraction would never happen again on his watch and then he goes and does it again. and then he lies to the NCAA investigators about it. The worst thing a coach ca n do is lie to an NCAA investigator. he'll get fired every time.
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Thunder Muscle
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shaolin34
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you know, you're right about the difference in high school recruiting between indiana and oklahoma. for some reason the ohio valley region produces very good basketball players, and there are a lot of good colleges out recruiting these players; much more so than in big 12 territory. doing "whatever it takes" to get these players is everything in recruiting. there are a lot of stupid ncaa rules, but sampson broke them, lied about it, and deserves his punishment. i hope if he finds himself at a midmajor or DII school in the future he will learn from his mistakes.[/quote]
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MajorDad
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I won't say that recruiting high school players verses jucos will lead to a more successful program. But i do know that's traditionally the pool of players IU and many big ten teams go after. and Sampson probably wanted to make a good first impression with the IU administration by going after the type of recruits IU traditionally goes after.
On the other hand, Ppurdue goes after a lot of juco wide receivers for its football team and they seem to have a pipeline to a couple of Kansas junior colleges. The Juco wr that have played at purdue have done very well on the field and in the classroom.
I find it interesting a n anonymous source chipped in $500 K of the $750 k buyout. he must have either really wanted Sampson gone, or felt bad about the circumstances.
it's a fact, Sampson could coach and the players loved him. Although i have to wonder about the charcter of the players staging a walk-out for a coach they all knew broke the NCAA rules. it's not like Gordon didn't know how many times Sampson had called him illegally. The IU players helped Sampson break the NCAA rules by talking to him on the phone. and then they get mad he got fired? They are the ones who put him where he is today- on the outside looking in. maybe they should help pay his phone bill or take up a collection for a new cell phone.
it was probably the NCAA informed IU if they don't fire Sampson immediately they will be placed on imediate probation wih no dance appearance.
On the other hand, Ppurdue goes after a lot of juco wide receivers for its football team and they seem to have a pipeline to a couple of Kansas junior colleges. The Juco wr that have played at purdue have done very well on the field and in the classroom.
I find it interesting a n anonymous source chipped in $500 K of the $750 k buyout. he must have either really wanted Sampson gone, or felt bad about the circumstances.
it's a fact, Sampson could coach and the players loved him. Although i have to wonder about the charcter of the players staging a walk-out for a coach they all knew broke the NCAA rules. it's not like Gordon didn't know how many times Sampson had called him illegally. The IU players helped Sampson break the NCAA rules by talking to him on the phone. and then they get mad he got fired? They are the ones who put him where he is today- on the outside looking in. maybe they should help pay his phone bill or take up a collection for a new cell phone.
it was probably the NCAA informed IU if they don't fire Sampson immediately they will be placed on imediate probation wih no dance appearance.
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MajorDad
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I read a blurb yesterday on Sampson's illegal calls. The majority of them went to players who signed elsewhere. he made a bunch of calls to Purdue's recruits hummel and martin. he made a bunch of calls to a recruit that went to Cincy. he made a bunch of calls to a kid who went ot Ohio st. he wasn't charged with making any illegal calls to Gordon - very odd.
I have no doubt Purdue and/or Cincy's coach called the NCAA and ratted Sampson out. Purdue and IU were both recruiting a 5 star center named Zeller this fall who later verbaled to UNC. I have no doubt once purdue lost out, they turned Sampson in. As a Purdue alum, it was the right thing to do.
I have no doubt Purdue and/or Cincy's coach called the NCAA and ratted Sampson out. Purdue and IU were both recruiting a 5 star center named Zeller this fall who later verbaled to UNC. I have no doubt once purdue lost out, they turned Sampson in. As a Purdue alum, it was the right thing to do.