Bucks to honor Bob Lanier on Feb 20

[brianwinters32]

Your Winters love is noted... We will agree to disagree.

You can't overlook the Kareem factor though.

If you want to use numbers, Bobby Dandridge retired the year before Winters with better numbers. Bobby was well regarded in the Bucks organization, they even brought him back so he could play his last year in Milwaukee.

So the reason Winters numbers was retired and not Bobby's? It certainly wasn't because he had better numbers.... It was because of all the flack the Bucks got after the Kareem trade, which lingered for years. By retiring two of the numbers of guys they got back in the trade the organization could save some face.

Had David Meyers not retired prematurely I'm sure his number would be up there too for the same reason.

I was waiting for some sort of "man crush" comment. Thanks for not disappointing me!
And your arguement that #2 and #32 are in the rafters because of the Kareem trade are unfounded and just plain silly. Kareem wanted out and the Bucks put together a trade looking to the future. I don't think any trade they made would have satisfied everybody. I mean we are talking about one of the greatest to pick up a basketball.
And about Bobby D. Have you read Wayne Embry's book?? It has a telling story about Dandridge and how he was viewed around the league. I believe the word used was malcontent. So unless you were working in the front office at the time I don't think you are in a position to say how well liked he was.
Regardless of that does he deserve it?? Yes. Does Marques?? Yes.
Just as those other two guys you so quickly dismiss.

[MickeyDavis]

-= original quote snipped =-



I was waiting for some sort of "man crush" comment. Thanks for not disappointing me!

Given your name, and the fact that 7 out of 8 of your posts are in this thread defending Winters I do think there is some kind of infatuation going on. But if there is ever discussion about Mickey Davis I'll be all over it.

[brewguru]

I liked Brian Winters when I was growing up, so don't take this wrong.

The fact that he ranked in the top 8 in so many categories when he retired shouldn't mean that much (unless they were special numbers, ala Kareem).

It's like saying the Tampa Bay Devil Rays should retire Carlos Pena's number because he led the franchise in home runs after 10 years.

As a couple of other posters said, Bridgeman and Winters, although fine players, only had their numbers retired because of their association with the Kareem trade. They played at the same time as Marques and if his number isn't honored from that era, no one's should.

[GrandAdmiralDan]

-= original quote snipped =-



I was waiting for some sort of "man crush" comment. Thanks for not disappointing me!
And your arguement that #2 and #32 are in the rafters because of the Kareem trade are unfounded and just plain silly. Kareem wanted out and the Bucks put together a trade looking to the future. I don't think any trade they made would have satisfied everybody. I mean we are talking about one of the greatest to pick up a basketball.
And about Bobby D. Have you read Wayne Embry's book?? It has a telling story about Dandridge and how he was viewed around the league. I believe the word used was malcontent. So unless you were working in the front office at the time I don't think you are in a position to say how well liked he was.
Regardless of that does he deserve it?? Yes. Does Marques?? Yes.
Just as those other two guys you so quickly dismiss.

I am of the belief that a very high threshold needs to be met for one to have his number retired. Marques Johnson definitely meets that criteria. I'd say Dandridge does as well.
Brian Winters does not. Terry Cummings does not. Glenn Robinson does not. Sam Cassell does not. Ray Allen does not. Michael Redd does not (though he could theoretically still earn it, but I doubt that happens).

David Meyers (since MD mentioned him) had the kind of talent and skills to have potentially earned it as well if he had not retired prematurely for religious reasons.

It isn't really a slight against Brian Winters to say he doesn't deserve to have his number retired. I think you're taking that as an insult because he is an all-time favorite of yours.

Terry Cummings is my all-time favorite Buck. A friend of my family. His son TJ and I used to be friends (we enjoyed playing with our Masters of the Universe action figures with each other). Glenn Robinson is my second all-time favorite Buck. I do not find it insulting to either player that they don't have their numbers retired.

[brianwinters32]

The fact that he ranked in the top 8 in so many categories when he retired shouldn't mean that much (unless they were special numbers, ala Kareem)

That's not the stat. I said he was ranked in the top 4 of 8 different stat categories when he retired.
Also what special Kareem numbers are you talking about?? When I look at all-time Bucks leaders he is listed with the rest of them.
Not sure why Marques and Dandridge are given a pass to the rafters while others are dismissed.
I've said what I need to say. I will leave the rest up to the conspiracy nuts around here who believe numbers were retired to make the trade look legit.
I have to now go and light the candles in front of my Brian Winters shrine!

Get Well Soon Gentlemen!

[paulpressey25]

If you are going to retire a number, you've got to look at these criteria....

a) Was the player a HOF player?

b) Did the player help us win a championship?

c) Did the player have a long-career with the team where they were arguably the first or second best guy on the team and the team won big for some of those stretches?.

Winters and Bridgeman for that matter fail on all those counts.

The bottom line is that for the first half of Winters shortened career, the team didn't win much. In the last four years of his career, after the team got good, he was maybe the 4th or 5th best player on the team.

There are about ten guys who should get their numbers retired under those circumstances.....apply them to the Bulls, and if Ben Gordon only played four more seasons and averaged say 21, 18, 16, 10 he'd have his number retired.