The Rookie Wall statistically disproven (USA Today)

[Stopshere2]

I don't know if there's a rookie wall or not, but I do think that Yi has seriously overtrained. There were reports earlier in the season that Yi was lifting weights on game days -- and the training staff was thrilled. I'm happy that he's got a work ethic, too, but you can't just lift weights and play professional basketball every day and expect to grow stronger. The human body needs rest to recuperate and rebuild itself. Yi looks skinnier now than he did to start the season. I think we need to shut him down.

I've seen plenty of guys overdo the weight room and lose their vertical and their endurance. I've also seen players lose fine motor control as their strength and/or bulk increased. It's amazing to see a guy who formerly had soft hands end up with a pair of bricks for hands. It's completely the reverse of what you may expect from an increase in strength and may have something to do with Yi's butterfingers.

[Sleepy51]

I don't know if there's a rookie wall or not, but I do think that Yi has seriously overtrained. There were reports earlier in the season that Yi was lifting weights on game days -- and the training staff was thrilled. I'm happy that he's got a work ethic, too, but you can't just lift weights and play professional basketball every day and expect to grow stronger. The human body needs rest to recuperate and rebuild itself. Yi looks skinnier now than he did to start the season. I think we need to shut him down.

I think it worked out ok for Jordan.

The purpose of in season strength training isn't for gains, it's to maintain confition and for injury prevention. Strong bodies don't get hurt as easily. Of course if some boob in the training staff had him trying to pack on muscle mass during the season, that's bufoonery for a guy getting regular minutes, but just about every player SHOULD be hitting the weights every day but with a an appropriate in-season regimen and goals.

[buckybadgerfan]

[quote="GHOSTofSIKMA"]If we dont trade yi in the offseason to a larger market it will be a HUGE missed oppurtunity. He is best case a Bargnani type player. We have absolutely no use for that type of PF.

I have never seen a weaker finisher in all my years of watching NBA basketball. That is not something that can be taught really. How do you teach someone not to be terrible holding onto the ball.

How do teach somebody not to go up strong and be easily rejected by EVERYBODY within arms length?

I cant stand Yi and quite frankly blame much of this years problems on his distraction early on. Hes a sideshow.[/quote]

So the fact that CV shoots 1 for 9 and plays like chump change is not a factor in the Buck's poor play.
Yi's minutes has steadily declined and Buck's fans were singing "Hallelujah" that BUCKS WOULD FINALLY START WINNING?

Where is that attitude now.

Fact is Yi is too nice to blame the lack of/inconsistent minutes for his lack of output. It's easier to say he is overworked-->fact is he can't likely be overworked when he is playing just 17 minutes or less per game now. The guy seems to lose the ball too often but playing time and ballhandling can improve that. Look at his effort in early season games for proof. It's all about confidence.

And the reason Chinese and Asian fans in general dont come to this forum anymore is because of the crapppy attitude by RGM posters, the clueless direction of this management and the PATHETIC PLAY OF ALL NON-ROOKIE PLAYERS. I bet they are still hoping Yi gets traded to an organization with more direction....I bet Yi is silently hoping for the same.

Yeah, Yi's been playing poorly. He's a Rook and that gives him a pass over guys like CV (3 years in the league and shooting 1/9 as a starter with NO defensive abilities).
Posters who think it doesn't matter--->How many teams would be willing to trade for CV as opposed to Yi?

[buckybadgerfan]

Fact is if the team shared the ball more with their Rookie and if the coach would play him minutes while allowing him to make these mistakes-->he could definitely improve.

Sadly, he's probably developing an AGENDA to get outa town like the rest of these overpaid primadonnas we call Bucks players.

Bogut excluded. Bogut has been probably the only bright spot on this team.

[buckybadgerfan]

Another fact for you guys.

The Chinese were smart enough to see Yi fall into a poor situation like this and that's why they protested the draft.

Looks to me, that the greedy Bucks organization has too many PROJECTS at the frontcourt (Bogut, Yi and CV...yes even CV after 3 years is a project) and is clueless as how to develop any of them.

[emunney]

-= original quote snipped =-



I think it worked out ok for Jordan.

The purpose of in season strength training isn't for gains, it's to maintain confition and for injury prevention. Strong bodies don't get hurt as easily. Of course if some boob in the training staff had him trying to pack on muscle mass during the season, that's bufoonery for a guy getting regular minutes, but just about every player SHOULD be hitting the weights every day but with a an appropriate in-season regimen and goals.

Why would you assume I was talking about standard conditioning work? All the talk about Yi's weight work revolves around a stronger upper-body.

[carmelbrownqueen]

I didn't get a chance to post this two weeks ago when it first hit, but wanted to get it up here now.

It should be must reading for this board, especially analyzing the performance chart at the bottom of the story that has many players before and after the all-star break averages.

It is a pretty damn compelling case that we should be worried about Yi.....it would appear Adam Morrison is one of the few high lotto picks whose numbers declined after the all-star break. And of course Bogut is one of the other few guys whose game didn't take off as the season went on.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketba ... 8-scorers- table_N.htm

The Rookie Wall isn't a fallacy and I'm not surprised at all by Yi's struggles this season. Actually I expected him to struggle, especially considering his situation and it's not surprising to see him fall completely off the grid statistically.

First, Yi unlike a number of rookies in his class (and even compared to a large majority of that list by usatoday) has played almost completely nonstop for the last year or so.. And my biggest concern at the moment is that he still won't get the necessary amount of rest or time to work on his game this summer, so that he can come back rejuvenated next season. Even Al Horford stated that the most important thing right now is:

"The biggest key for me is getting rest. I feel like I try to take care of my body to stay fresh."

Second, it's somewhat misleading of the article not to list the minutes played in the first half versus the minutes played in the second half for these guys. Some saw a jump in minutes during the second half of the season, whereas Yi initially was playing almost 30mpg and now is exhausted and is playing less minutes. Check the quote from today's MJS:

Yi Jianlian is burned out.

The Milwaukee Bucks' rookie forward, who has been mired in a slump for weeks, admits that playing basketball constantly over the last ten months or so has left him on empty and that his performance has declined because of it.

"I want to play good and that's what I'm trying to do," said Yi through his interpreter. "Right now, the reason I feel I'm playing not so good is that I'm tired. I've been playing since last summer, all through this season, all these games without a stop.

"I'm tired out."

Asked how long it had been since he'd been away from basketball, there was a long pause as Yi looked skyward and tried to recall. Finally he said, "Last year in April I had about two weeks of rest."

Yi's fatigue is an interesting revelation coming on the heels of the news out of Houston last week that Yao Ming, Yi's Chinese teammate, would miss the remainder of the NBA season because of a stress fracture in his left foot. Yao and Yi both put in a busy summer playing for the Chinese national team.

Yi suffered a left-ankle sprain in Sunday's loss to Indiana and the Bucks have listed his condition as day-to-day. And his weariness has been reflected in his play.

So why wouldn't we see a guy on the court who is unproductive and ineffiient. Honeslty I don't see how we can really compare him to any of these other guys considering his situation is different than most of the guys on that list.

[carmelbrownqueen]

Its really hard to say. How many rookies played the whole year before? Yi looks very tired right now. That would explain why he is losing the ball a lot.
And it will not get any better , because of the summer games.

[Sleepy51]

I don't know if there's a rookie wall or not, but I do think that Yi has seriously overtrained. There were reports earlier in the season that Yi was lifting weights on game days -- and the training staff was thrilled. I'm happy that he's got a work ethic, too, but you can't just lift weights and play professional basketball every day and expect to grow stronger. The human body needs rest to recuperate and rebuild itself. Yi looks skinnier now than he did to start the season. I think we need to shut him down.

Re-read you post, and I can sort of see the emphasis now. I fixated on the statement about Yi lifting on gamedays being bad, and the staff being thrilled. I would be thrilled too. I didn't focus on your comment about "expecting to grow stronger." There I can see a point. You aren't going to make size gains during the season because of how worn down your body gets.

It read to me like your overall point was that lifting weights in season is a bad idea. That's what I was disagreeing with. I guess it depends on what kind of lifting and what the goals are.

[JK80]

There is no doubt that Yi's physical condition is not top-tier now, but I think that his struggles have more to do with mental than physical issues. Yi's lost his confidence that he had earlier in the year and he looks lost on the court these days. He's also got nobody to turn to as he's in a total foriegn environment (literally). Remember Yi is still very young.

There is a reason that it is more risky to draft a foreign player than an American player (here I mean real foriegn players, not someone like Bogut who played college ball in the U.S.). Some of them can never adapt to the NBA as well as American lifestyle. Hence despite of their athletic talents, they dont succeed in the league. Tskitishvilli was such an example, and Yi, unfortunately, is drawing Tskitishvilli comparisons now.

I think that it maybe in the Bucks' and Yi's best interest to trade him this summer while he's still got some trading value. Another year in Milwakee and Yi may just become another draft bust.

[carmelbrownqueen]

Honestly, I don't think Yi's struggles are even really all that mental.. but more a result of this guy being dog tired and playing at a level he has never played before. I agree he may have lost a bit of his confidence but I don't see him as lacking complete mental toughness..

The rigors of this life for the past ten months are just catching up with him..

[Chapter29]

Nice post's CBQ, I agree with you completely.

For Yi the term hitting the wall completely applies.

Much like Bogut his first season, Yi is going to have little time for rest or to focus on specific training needs. Instead of rest, weight training and tailored training regiment, he has to learn a different offense and players and tune himself back into International play. I understand the desire and the responsibility, it just sucks for their development and us Bucks fans.

[JollyJoker]

It's surprising how Yi's game has gone down the drain. He probably would only be playing marginally better on another team but you get the feeling he is tired of being the guy that has to do all the dirty work while the guards are playing p1ss poor defense, there probably is no motivation for him to do his best. It's a lose lose situation with the bucks and yi and they should trade him away in the offseason for a high draft pick.

[carmelbrownqueen]

It's surprising how Yi's game has gone down the drain. He probably would only be playing marginally better on another team but you get the feeling he is tired of being the guy that has to do all the dirty work while the guards are playing p1ss poor defense, there probably is no motivation for him to do his best. It's a lose lose situation with the bucks and yi and they should trade him away in the offseason for a high draft pick.

I disagree with you completely about Yi "probably" having no motivation based on the guards play..

Look I know it's convenient to blame the guards for everything that's wrong with this team.. but Yi's play, his motivation, etc.. has nothing to do with his decline lately. I said it before the season.. this kid is going to be exhausted and probably wouldn't play very well at some point. Surprise surprise he isn't right now. I think they worked him way to hard this summer playing in all these games and didn't give him the opportunity to just concentrate on improving his game. Yi was up to 245ish when he entered the draft and now he appears to have obviously lost quite a bit of weight. Honestly I would be surprised if he was bigger than 230.. Also with Yi his motivation is always going to be having an entire country watching your every move and expecting so much from him... What the guards do or don't do are such a small part of his equation right now that it's really comical for others to even bring them up in relation to him.