Some Bogut stats in relation to position

[El Duderino]

Bogut has improved his defense, but he just wasn't born with the skills to be one of those true impact defenders inside that has perimeter guys on offense thinking about where Andrew is when they drive the paint.

With that said, Bogut at least isn't some liability on defense like our starting backcourt is. This franchise has had many defensive problems to deal with for awhile, but the last five years or so, the biggest problem has been the TJ/Redd and Mo/Redd backcourt duos.

Unless maybe your team has a Mutombo like game changing defensive big man inside, it's near impossible to have a good defensive team with backcourt duos of TJ/Redd and/or Mo/Redd logging around 35 minutes per game each.

One or both need to go if this franchise ever is serious about improving the yearly terrible defense. Simply instead having a revolving door of head coaches coming in every few years claiming they'll fix the defense would be akin to having a terrible pitching staff in baseball for years, yet instead of getting different pitchers, the team decided to keep hiring new pitching coaches and thinking that will fix the problem.

[stellation]

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I never said he was a poor defender I said he wasn't a very good defender like paul said he was. Another part of defense is controlling the glass and Bogut is a mediocre rebounder, something that often gets overlooked.

9.4 rpg isn't mediocre.

[paul]

BTW, the Bucks defense is worse with Bogut on the court than off and he has a terrible defensive PER. Couple that with him being on the worst (worse than last year even) defensive team in the league, and I think it'd be hard to call him a "Very good defender."

Hmmm do you think that could have something to do with the oppositions second unit being on the floor, and our second unit containing Ivey Bell and Simmons, our 3 best defenders outside of Bogut?

[REDDzone]

He locked up Hinrich early on, then TJ, then played Parker tough, then... whatever. I don't remember every game. I do recall a few good defensive games through this season though. As I said, on the whole he's awful.

BTW, Redd continues to get WAY too much credit for staying in front of Juan Dixon that one time.

He also played solid on Chris Paul for the most recent New Orleans game (Paul still went off, but I thought Mo was better than usual at damage control considering it was Chris freaking Paul). If you will remember, he also did good on Kidd the game when Ivey lost him for that late three for the Nets win.

But this IMO is as sad as the recent discussion I had with CBQ about Redd being a good defensive performance because he played well against Kobe. Once. I think the fact that there are specific games people can agree he played good or average defense in, with this many games already played, that is pretty bad. Same for Redd.

I don't think Bogut is a world beater on D, but I sure as hell can't name every game he has ever played good defense in.

[paulpressey25]

He locked up Hinrich early on, .

Actually I was at that game....Mo got lit up by Duhon....then he sat most of the fourth quarter. It was Bell most of the way there.....this was of course opening night, when Larry K was using his "benching" powers for the first time.

Carry on...

....we do need a CV thread though. At least Mo brings it offensively every game. I'm not sure why our most talented player (CV) is only capable of playing a good game every third Wednesday of the month. Was last night the two-year anniversary of his 48pt game? Maybe he was celebrating that.

[Newz]

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9.4 rpg isn't mediocre.

It's very mediocre considering he plays around 35 MPGs...

There are guys averaging nearly 10 minutes less per game right below him averaging 8.8.

He's 10th in the NBA in rebounding among centers while being 7th in minutes amongst them... And that isn't even including a lot of the PFs that outrebound him or nearly outrebound him in a lot less minutes per game.

Bogut is an average rebounder, period.

[ReasonablySober]

The original post was possibly one of the worst statistical comparison/observations I think I've seen. FGA, FTA... who cares!? If you want to use statistics to measure someone (in this case Bogut)'s play, at least learn something about advanced stats otherwise you're just wasting everyone's time.

OK, enlighten me then.

[stellation]

It's very mediocre considering he plays around 35 MPGs...

There are guys averaging nearly 10 minutes less per game right below him averaging 8.8.

He's 10th in the NBA in rebounding among centers while being 7th in minutes amongst them... And that isn't even including a lot of the PFs that outrebound him or nearly outrebound him in a lot less minutes per game.

Bogut is an average rebounder, period.

Since poor Europa has been picked on lately, I'll play the semantics pratt and ask so which is it- very mediocre* or average. All I suggested was that Andrew isn't mediocre.

* Can something be "very" mediocre, or are there no degrees of mediocrity? I'm certain that long time Bucks fans have a lot of experience with mediocrity and can comment.

[fam3381]

OK, enlighten me then.

Out of 59 qualified players at the center position:

- 27th in rebound rate (16.1 vs. 15.2 last year). He's relatively better defensively (23rd) than offensively (34th)

- 14th in PER (17.18 vs. 15.54 last year)

- 34th in TS% (.525 vs. .566 last year)

- 17th in turnover rate (11.6 vs. 14.1 last year)

Overall Bogut has become an ever-so-slightly above average rebounder among centers while also turning the ball over at a lower rate. He scores at a higher rate (15.9 ppg/40 min vs. 14.3 ppg last year) but his shooting efficiency has gone down since last year. His raw fg% is down notably (.506 vs. .553) and while normally getting to the line increases your scoring efficiency in TS% terms, his 33% higher FTA this year (3.9 vs. 2.9) doesn't help that much because he's such a poor ft shooter.

[trwi7]

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9.4 rpg isn't mediocre.

His Rebound Rate is very mediocre.

Edit: These are where the centers with at least 20 minutes rank in rebound rate.

Kurt Thomas
Dwight Howard
Marcus Camby
Tyson Chandler
Joel Pryzbilla
Chris Kaman
Jeff Foster
Tim Duncan
Andrew Bynum
Andris Biedrins
Al Jefferson
Erick Dampier
Al Horford
Samuel Dalembert
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Antonio McDyess
Anderson Varejao
Yao Ming
Shaquille O'Neal
Andrew Bogut
Brad Miller
Brendan Haywood
Amare Stoudemire
Ben Wallace
Andray Blatche
Kwame Brown
Kendrick Perkins
Darko Milicic
Jermaine O'Neal
Mehmet Okur
Mark Blount
Eddy Curry

That looks pretty mediocre to me.

[xTitan]

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His Rebound Rate is very mediocre.

How is the rebound rate defined?

[trwi7]

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How is the rebound rate defined?

Rebound Rate is the percentage of missed shots that a player rebounds. Rebound Rate = (Rebounds x Team Minutes) divided by [Player Minutes x (Team Rebounds + Opponent Rebounds)]

[REDDzone]

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Rebound Rate is the percentage of missed shots that a player rebounds. Rebound Rate = (Rebounds x Team Minutes) divided by [Player Minutes x (Team Rebounds + Opponent Rebounds)]

Yep and its generally the best measure, as it controls for minutes AND pace.

[europa]

What's Bogut's rebounding rate since the start of the year? Anyone have that info? I'd be interested to know.

[El Duderino]

Gotta love Eddy Curry dead last in rebound rate. The dude has a body to be a beast on the boards, bur even sad Mark Blount is a better rebounder.

[ReasonablySober]

What's Bogut's rebounding rate since the start of the year? Anyone have that info? I'd be interested to know.

Someone else can figure that out, but the Bucks averaged three more FGAs per game in February than they did in January and have averaged ten more on top of that so far in March. Both February and March have been season highs. Opponents are also averaging seven more FGAs per game since January.

If I were to guess I'd say he rebounding rate has gone down since the start of the year.

[fam3381]

What's Bogut's rebounding rate since the start of the year? Anyone have that info? I'd be interested to know.

I don't know of a place that has splits for rebound rate, but I check the numbers pretty regularly and I think the lowest it has been this year was maybe around 15.7 a while ago. So while it's probably been higher in the last month+ I wouldn't guess it's been dramatically higher.

His monthly minutes/rebound has improved lately, which doesn't account for the total available rebounds, but it's a decent proxy:

Month mpg reb min/reb
Nov 31.3 8.6 3.64
Dec 34.8 8.6 4.05
Jan 35.3 9.7 3.64
Feb 35.9 10.0 3.59
Mar 36.5 12.3 2.97

I'd think you could say he's been a good rebounder this month, but that's only 8 games (whoops, I mean THREE games!.

[europa]

Thanks fam. So is it accurate to say his rebounding rate has been increasing since the start of the year? Am I reading your numbers correctly?