Would you trade Bogut for Rose?

[jakecronus8]

Bogut has been my favorite Buck since Ray Allen, but like someone previously stated, I would take Rose and Hibbert, or Thabeet over Bogut and Mo or Collison, Augustin, etc. And obviously I would take any deal for any of our other assets before Bogut first.

[BuckFan25226]

I suppose I just don't value Bogut nearly as much as some of you guys. We look at him in his third year with career numbers at 12/8. Yes, he's improved in his 3rd year. But why is everyone going gaga about 30 or 40 games at 16/10? His minutes have increased, and his field goal attempts have increased. I sure would hope his rebounds and points per game would increase.

Now I can understand if his numbers jumped to 21/11/3/2 in the last 40 games, Then we can start getting excited, but they've improved to a couple more points per game and 1 more rebound per game. Well, he's been playing more minutes, has been getting more shot attempts, that's only natural with any player.

Luke, you say it takes longer with some players, I agree with certain positions, but not centers. In baseball, it can take longer for pitchers, in football it can take longer for QB's, in basketball it can take longer for point guards. Since everyone here is so obsessed with individual numbers, what player started their career similar to Bogut's numbers, then suddenly jumped to be a 18/10/3/2 type player? Or whatever numbers you think he can put up for the rest of his career.

And somebody tell me why it's so crazy to compare Bogut to Vlade Divac? Bogut's numbers are eerily similar to the way Divac started his career. Divac's best year as a pro were 16/10.4/4.1/2.2bpg, shooting over 50% from the field and 68% from the free throw line. Vlade also had something Bogut has yet to even come close to having, a mid range game.

[DH34Phan]

We look at him in his third year with career numbers at 12/8. Yes, he's improved in his 3rd year. But why is everyone going gaga about 30 or 40 games at 16/10?

Probably because the 3rd year is arguably the most important year for a big man. That is the year where they either make the jump or not.

Statistically, it looks like Bogut has made the jump. Whether or not that will lead us to wins and if we should build around him are different questions.

[LISTEN2JAZZ]

Vlade also had something Bogut has yet to even come close to having, a mid range game.

If they have the same numbers, and only Vlade had a midrange game, then Bogut must have a better post game.

[Wade-A-Holic]

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Just like he was No.1 pick before Paul and Williams

Sigra, if our new general manager was somehow able to make that our lineup next year (the one in your sig), he either ought to be put in jail for drugging or killing rival executives or be awarded the presidency for his ability to talk rivals into doing stupid things. Furthermore, he should be focusing his brilliance on bigger problems than the Bucks, such as curing cancer.

[blkout]

I've been scrounging for highlights and clips of that Texas game, Joey Dorsey is a monster. Anyway, Rose looks awesome, I can see why people are so into him.

[emunney]

You should be able to watch the whole thing if you go here, Citizen.

http://www.ncaasports.com/mmod

[blkout]

Oh **** I actually signed up for that months ago but completely forgot the link. Thanks, that's useful.

[Sigra]

Vlade also had something Bogut has yet to even come close to having, a mid range game.

+ outlet pass. Divac was elite in that element of basketball game.

[Sigra]

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Sigra, if our new general manager was somehow able to make that our lineup next year (the one in your sig), he either ought to be put in jail for drugging or killing rival executives or be awarded the presidency for his ability to talk rivals into doing stupid things. Furthermore, he should be focusing his brilliance on bigger problems than the Bucks, such as curing cancer.

Don't wake me up. I want to dream a little more

[BuckFan25226]

We look at him in his third year with career numbers at 12/8. Yes, he's improved in his 3rd year. But why is everyone going gaga about 30 or 40 games at 16/10?

Probably because the 3rd year is arguably the most important year for a big man. That is the year where they either make the jump or not.

Statistically, it looks like Bogut has made the jump. Whether or not that will lead us to wins and if we should build around him are different questions.

Really?

Last year - 12.3/8.8/3/55%FG in 34.2 mpg

This year - 13.9/9.5/2.6/50%FG in 34.5 mpg


So this big 3rd year jump everyone keeps talking about consists of 1.6ppg/0.7rpg/and - 0.4apg? Not to mention a significant drop in FG%???

So are we going to move on to the theory of the 4th and 5th year jump?

If they have the same numbers, and only Vlade had a midrange game, then Bogut must have a better post game.

Vlade's two first seasons in the NBA he played for championship caliber Laker squads. The next two years they were playoffs teams. He played less minutes then Bogut in his first three years.(19.6/28.2/27.2) for championship caliber teams. Bogut has averaged 32.4mpg in his first three season and has so far put up 11.7/8.4/2.6/1.0bpg/53%FG. Vlade averaged 25mpg in his first 3 years and put up 10.3/7.5/1.2/1.3bpg/52%FG.

Vlade had an inside game, and outside game. The fact that some of his points came off of hooks, jumpers, as well as his back to the basket shows how impressive his career 49.5%FG was. Like I said, the 2 players(Bogut and Vlade) are a great comparison. Very similar players, but Vlade was a very good, and a very crafty offensive player, better then Bogut has shown so far in his young career.

The Vlade/Webber combo was great, something I feel Bogut needs next to him. Bogut will never be good enough to carry a frontcourt by himself like a Shaq, Duncan etc.

[europa]

But why is everyone going gaga about 30 or 40 games at 16/10?

For me, it's because we've seen significant improvements in his game on both ends of the court. His defense has been vastly improved and his offensive game has been vastly improved since the new year. And in that time, his production has ranked among the best at his position. I also think Bogut does more to positively impact this team and enhance the team's potential for success than any other player on the team. In watching him play since the new year, I see a vastly improved player and I think that bodes well for future improvement and in terms of the Bucks' chances for success - assuming intelligent personnel moves are made going forward.

[EastSideBucksFan]

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Really?

Last year - 12.3/8.8/3/55%FG in 34.2 mpg

This year - 13.9/9.5/2.6/50%FG in 34.5 mpg


So this big 3rd year jump everyone keeps talking about consists of 1.6ppg/0.7rpg/and - 0.4apg? Not to mention a significant drop in FG%???

So are we going to move on to the theory of the 4th and 5th year jump?

It's kind of funny how to decided to leave his blocks averages out

06-07 0.5 BPG
07-08 1.8BPG



Add in to the fact that Bogut is the second leading scoring center in the east and is also second in doubles-doubles in the east.

He's added a whole new dimension to his game this year and has proven he is ready to play defense. Thats more than I can say for anyone else on this roster.

He's the one you keep.

It's not worth it to give him up for Rose.


EDIT: It should be noted that Bogut has had the most blocks for the Bucks organization since Ervin Johnson had 127 in the 98-99 Season



(Credit some of these facts to the MSG crew, I'm watching League Pass right now)

[dunhill]

the reason we go gaga about it was because that was the time that AB acually became par of the offense. I'm looking at his gamelogs and prior to that time that was the period where he had the least opportunities. <10 shots a game. When he has been afforded more opporuniies he has delivered. He's had 4 or 5 stinkers in that 40 game stretch, which is pretty consistent

Sure dismiss the fact that the oppotunities weren't there prior. That obviously has no bearing on production at all.