If you were Carlisle -Bucks job or Bulls job?

[paulpressey25]

There have been stories in the past month about Rick Carlisle to the Bulls. A Pistons poster suggested the Bulls were a better job.

Put aside the issue of market size. What team would you rather be coach of? Probably hard to answer since both teams will make major moves this summer.

Two years ago the Bulls situation looked tremendous.....I'm not sure it is anymore.

Thoughts?

[europa]

I'd take the Bulls job - unless I had a strong working relationship with Hammond and believed I'd work better with him than with Paxson.

[paulpressey25]

I don't know. If Bogut keeps improving, he might be the best player next season on either roster.

They will lose one of either Gordon or Deng IMO.....or end up overpaying them.

Hinrich is a good player but his game is a mess. TT is like CV in the sense of being a major headcase.

I like Hughes and Gooden, but only to the point that they were better IMO than the money Ben Wallace was taking up.

I like Nocioni a lot, but he's paid fairly now at $8mm a season and not a bargain if he doesn't start.

I think Noah could potentially be their best player by next season.

Add a Derrick Rose to either roster, and I think the Bucks roster is better positioned to win than the Bulls......

[NotYoAvgNBAFan]

It is not important...I like Carisle and said it first in the Jsonline blogs a year and a half ago!

But i like Larry Brown or Jeff Van Gundy even more because they teach defense and value big men...

I would like Jeff Van Gundy, Scott Skiles, Larry Brown, or Dave Cowens or Paul Silas...

Any one of those men I would be simply estatic and not transfer my fan-hood to Portland when Greg Oden comes next year...

The Bucks did the first stepp in meeting my demands of staying a Bucks' fan. They got a reputable GM and now are in line to get a credible coach
as well.

I say give him free reign. Bring in Brown and then prepare a coach down the line like Rasheed Wallace (see great ESPN the Magazine article on Sheed's future coaching prowess...) or a Sam Cassell or Isiah Thomas to take over for Larry Brown down the road...

Ok perhaps Thomas is pushing it, but I would even bring back Terry Porter if he would even want to return once Kohl relinguishes control to Hammond...

But I want wholesale radical changes not just glossy flash. Get it done and break it down and build us back up to where we belong and where this franchise was its first 25 years in the NBA as one of the NBA's model franchises...

Lets go!

[Buck You]

I think if he really wanted a challenge he would go to Milwaukee. Also, the media here doesn't really care about the Bucks so he would be really under the radar. He would be more open to scrutiny in Chicago.

[showtimesam]

I think Boguts the best player on either roster, so that helps.

However, the bulls definitely have better pieces overall.

I'd say the Bucks though because I think the expectations are less next year than the Bulls who won 50 games last season.

Plus he may have a nice established working relationship with Hammond.

[Isocleas2]

I think if he really wanted a challenge he would go to Milwaukee. Also, the media here doesn't really care about the Bucks so he would be really under the radar. He would be more open to scrutiny in Chicago.

I think you nailed the biggest reason for him coming here, less pressure. At this point in his career I don't think he'll have a problem commanding a big salary regardless of the market he coaches in either. Unlike say a younger coach who could perhaps use the Bulls job to gain more exposure and propel him to a higher pay grade.

Hammond really is our ace in the hole. Lets hope they were buddy-buddy in Detroit.

[LUKE23]

Well, lets look at the top five players or projectable talents on each roster:

Bucks:

Bogut
Redd
Williams
Yi
CV

Bulls:

Hinrich
Gordon
Deng
Nocioni
Noah/Thomas/Gooden

You can argue who the fifth best player on the Bulls is probably. The Bulls are sitting at $40M in salary. They have both Gordon and Deng, two of their top three players, needing to be resigned. I think it's pretty much a lock that one of those guys is gone.

I don't know. I think talent-wise with Bogut really coming on, the Bucks might have a slightly better core there, but the difference is negligible. Obviously the Bulls core is built more to defend, however it has too many guards and the team still has no one that can defend. Between Noah/TT and CV/Yi as the young guys, who do you take? Again, it's close.

Like I said earlier, it will come down to money in my opinion. Geographiclally, the teams are close, and in terms of talent the teams are close. Obviously most people would probably rather live in Chicago, but I would wonder how much that would come into play.

[xTitan]

To me its really this simple, if you believe that Hammond has full control over the personnel decisions that is the way to go, because Paxon has proven to be a rather pooor GM, IMO. The biggest thing the Bulls have going for them is that they are in Chicago, which will be far easier to lure quality free agents there, but Hammond is used to succeeding in a market that is not a preferred destination.

[Licensed to Il]

Chicago was a better situation, but Paxson's reluctance to trade any of his pets delayed and possibly destroyed all the post-Krause progress the franchise had made. Pax can still make a deal, but his window (of teams wanting Deng and B Gordon because they were young and improving and still on their rookie deals) has slammed shut. Deng and Gordon are nice players. But who would want them at maz contracts? Both turned down $50 mill offers, and while Deng said he regretted the decision, Gordon said he did not.

No one is going to want Hughes (without unloading abd contracts in return). Gooden is a headcase, but has a little trade value. Hinrich is real tough to read. He had value in the past, but he was in a funk all season long and doesn't dominate like you would want in a big money guard. Noah is a starting calliber center, but nothing special. Ty Thomas is a bust in the mold of Marcus Haislip (jaw dropping measurables but half a brain and no work ethic).

I can't see Paxson making any deals that bring the Bulls what they need, unless they decide to role the dice with Jermaine Oneal. And even that is a huge gamble for lots of reasons.

I used to laugh the last 3-4 years when many of the posters here would talk about how Mo Williams > Ben Gordon, and that the Bucks were a better team, etc. The Bulls have been a classier organization from top to bottom and the end of the year standings have shown it. But I finally think the table have turned, and that (with Hammond and a lottery pick) the Bucks job is more attractive.

[raferfenix]

I forget where i heard this, but I think the Bulls are looking to play more up tempo next year. If that's the case Carlisle would be a terrible fit.

With joakim noah, deng, and ty thomas playing up tempo is probably their best bet to utilize all three (and hopefully get thomas' game going). they have some major decisions to make this offseason though, so we'll see what direction they go.

[bango_the_buck]

I'd take the Bulls job - unless I had a strong working relationship with Hammond and believed I'd work better with him than with Paxson.

That is the key and why I think he'd prefer the Bucks job. Paxson has made many poor decisions during his tenure as the Bulls GM, and instead of admitting he was wrong and fixing the issues with the roster, he threw Skiles, a successful and highly respected coach (who he was reportedly close to), under the bus...

[paul]

I forget where i heard this, but I think the Bulls are looking to play more up tempo next year. If that's the case Carlisle would be a terrible fit.

With joakim noah, deng, and ty thomas playing up tempo is probably their best bet to utilize all three (and hopefully get thomas' game going). they have some major decisions to make this offseason though, so we'll see what direction they go.

Hmmm I know this is the wrong thread, but if they want to go uptempo, Hinrich for Mo anyone?

On Topic, I think the difference in the roster top end talent is negligable (if Deng leaves it's heavily in the Bucks favor), Chicago has the draw of possibly restoring the Bulls to their former glory, but Paxon could be a negative as he's made a mess over there. The Bucks are never seen as the greatest gig going but have the lack of media as a possible draw, Bogut as a possible draw, and possibly even working with Hammond may hold some appeal. Tough call, probably Chicago but it's not black and white.

[ReasonablySober]

To me its really this simple, if you believe that Hammond has full control over the personnel decisions that is the way to go

Actually, that was my first thought as well.

[old skool]

It has been reported in the Chicago papers that Carlisle would not mesh with Paxson and the Bulls way of doing things, which is very "family" oriented. Carlisle is more abrasive and aloof. Most NBA pundits in the Chicago area feel that Carlisle will not end up with the Bulls.

oLd sKool

[old skool]

Mo for Hinrich? Who would play the point for the Bucks?

Hinrich is a small SG. He is better than Bell, but less versatile. He is clearly a couple of notches below Redd on offense and barley better than Redd on defense when he has to guard tall SGs like McGrady, Carter, Kobe. He is a better passer than Redd, but less of a rebounder.

The Bucks need a point guard. Hinrich has shown that he cannot play the point every night.

oLd sKool

[old skool]

I don't see that Paxson has made that many mistakes as GM.

He brought in Scott Skiles as coach.

He brought in Ben Gordon, Andres Nocioni, Luol Deng and Chris Duhon, resulting in a team that made the playoffs as a #4 seed.

When Eddy Curry developed serious health problems, he refused to sign Curry to a near max contract without DNA testing to provide some assurance that Curry was not at risk. When Curry refused, he traded to the Knicks for a draft pick and the rights to swap another draft pick with the Knicks. I think that those players turned out to be Tyrus Thomas and Joakim Noah.

He signed Tyson Chandler to a near max deal and essentially exchanged Chandler for Ben Wallace. At the time, Wallace was the best free agent available and Chandler had repeatedly reported to the Bulls in poor physical condition, causing him to miss games during the regular season with back problems. Even when healthy, Chandler was outplayed by the relatively weak Wizards front line in the playoffs.

Paxson did goof when he traded LaMarcus Alrdidge for Tyrus Thomas.

Paxson did better in free agency last summer than did Larry Harris - Joe Smith performed much better than Des Mason and Luke Voskuhl.

I don't see how Paxson can be criticized for not signing Gordon and Deng. They wanted more than $50-mil each. Paxson was correct to not make bigger offers.

The Hughes-Wallace-Gooden trade was a wash - just positioning the roster for the next offseason.

Paxson took over a team mired in the lottery, replaced the coaching staff and most of the roster and produced a team that made the playoffs three straight years before this season's poor showing. This year the Bulls were picked by many to win the Central and challenge for the East. I don't see how Paxson has done that bad of a job. He is the guy that turned things around for the Bulls.

I think that Paxson has dramatically improved the Bulls competitiveness since he became their GM. I hope Hammond can be as successful for the Bucks.

oLd sKool

[sonny]

instead of admitting he was wrong and fixing the issues with the roster, he threw Skiles, a successful and highly respected coach (who he was reportedly close to), under the bus...

Skiles admitted towards the beginning of the season that he had lost the team, hard to throw Skiles under the bus when he's the one driving it.

[Rockmaninoff]

I don't see that Paxson has made that many mistakes as GM.

He brought in Scott Skiles as coach.

He brought in Ben Gordon, Andres Nocioni, Luol Deng and Chris Duhon, resulting in a team that made the playoffs as a #4 seed.

When Eddy Curry developed serious health problems, he refused to sign Curry to a near max contract without DNA testing to provide some assurance that Curry was not at risk. When Curry refused, he traded to the Knicks for a draft pick and the rights to swap another draft pick with the Knicks. I think that those players turned out to be Tyrus Thomas and Joakim Noah.

He signed Tyson Chandler to a near max deal and essentially exchanged Chandler for Ben Wallace. At the time, Wallace was the best free agent available and Chandler had repeatedly reported to the Bulls in poor physical condition, causing him to miss games during the regular season with back problems. Even when healthy, Chandler was outplayed by the relatively weak Wizards front line in the playoffs.

Paxson did goof when he traded LaMarcus Alrdidge for Tyrus Thomas.

Paxson did better in free agency last summer than did Larry Harris - Joe Smith performed much better than Des Mason and Luke Voskuhl.

I don't see how Paxson can be criticized for not signing Gordon and Deng. They wanted more than $50-mil each. Paxson was correct to not make bigger offers.

The Hughes-Wallace-Gooden trade was a wash - just positioning the roster for the next offseason.

Paxson took over a team mired in the lottery, replaced the coaching staff and most of the roster and produced a team that made the playoffs three straight years before this season's poor showing. This year the Bulls were picked by many to win the Central and challenge for the East. I don't see how Paxson has done that bad of a job. He is the guy that turned things around for the Bulls.

I think that Paxson has dramatically improved the Bulls competitiveness since he became their GM. I hope Hammond can be as successful for the Bucks.

oLd sKool

Paxson fatal mistake, was resigning Nocioni to that excessive contract. It was really just too much money to give to a guy who value wise is a 7th or 8th man on a good team. Gordan and Deng's agents used that as their bargaining chip.

Skiles lost the team, because those two became more concerned about themselves, then the team. They stopped playing hard defense everynight, there was no individual player leader, so the rest of the team followed suit.

The next nail was Noah and his hubris.

Anyway, back on topic. If it's between the Bucks and the Bulls for Carlisle, it all depends on his existing relationship with Hammond. Everything else is basically a wash.