Midranger's guide to the offseason

[midranger]

I'm all for nabbing mid first picks. I don't like the talent at the top very much at all.

[paulpressey25]

I think the draft picks in that 7-13 range aren't worth a whole lot. We're back in the era where the top five guys are the top five guys IMO.

I can recall the Kings in 1990 or so having 4 number ones....went nowhere......The Bucks did a blow up like this in 1992 and we got multiple number ones that draft like Day, Mayberry, Jon Berry, Alaa Abdlenaaby and cheap 2nd year players like Blue Edwards.

Granted it depends on who is picking the players, but I agree with Jeremy that is a bad lotto team. Maybe that's what we want....but like last year, all of our rebuilding blueprints ride on the lotto and where our pick ends up.

[midranger]

I think the draft picks in that 7-13 range aren't worth a whole lot. We're back in the era where the top five guys are the top five guys IMO.

I can recall the Kings in 1990 or so having 4 number ones....went nowhere......The Bucks did a blow up like this in 1992 and we got multiple number ones that draft like Day, Mayberry, Jon Berry, Alaa Abdlenaaby and cheap 2nd year players like Blue Edwards.

Granted it depends on who is picking the players, but I agree with Jeremy that is a bad lotto team. Maybe that's what we want....but like last year, all of our rebuilding blueprints ride on the lotto and where our pick ends up.

So an improvement?

That's what I was aiming for.

[paulpressey25]

So you want to go deep lotto for a few more seasons?

[midranger]

People have to look at our team and realize we're in one of the worst situations in the NBA. We suck. Terribly. Yet we have nothing in the way of top tier talent or prospects.

Spending the next couple years in the lotto should pretty much be assumed at this point.

There is no magic bullet for this mess. Stop putting the lipstick on the pig and give yourself a chance in the future.

[smalls]

-= original quote snipped =-



Ummm.... by cleaning our books in two years with contracts like TT and Miles?

That was part of the plan after all.


It's not like I want to make TT and Miles integral parts of the team. They are strictly contracts.

ok thats super.... we clean our books of two dildos in two years, what do we try to sign in year 3 and 4 to complete our rebuilding roster(and no their contracts wont alone put us drastically underneath the cap, where we as one of the most appealing cities in the NBA to young rich Black men, we can entice any sort of help to the core that maybe in place at a contract that will still allow us to add 25 mill to our payroll in a year or 2). Not to mention the fact that it might be important to sell the public an improving team since we need a new arena.

Look i get what u r tryin to do, I am just sayin it is not even close to feasible. We cannot afford to simply ditch talent like Redd CV and Mo(and just cuz this team sucks doesnt mean that the rest of the league doesnt understand the individual talent these players have) for complete trash because of#1 the fact that this org can't afford to rebuild for 4 years. #2 we cant just ditch salary and hope to lure top notch F/a it just isnt gonna happen. That is why I think one of ur 2 deals is a good idea, but again different players back, guys that r at least serviceable not a guy that as soon as he comes in, we get to sit and watch make mad money and not care and possibly affect any sort of team situation. The culture needs to change, not just the players.

[zebraman2]

Hi Bucks fans,

I follow Bogut a pick, so I have a soft spot for you guys, and your board have definitely one of, if not the most intellectually stimulating and passionate topics I have ever read.

Enough of the sucking up, here are a couple of trades to clean up the Bucks, these trades are always long shots!

M.Williams
D. Gadzuric
D. Mason
For
W. Szczerbiak
A. Varejao

Y. Jianlian
M. Redd
B. Simmons
C. Villanueva
For
E. Brand
C. Mobley
T. Thomas

Line Up
PG Rose, Sessions,
SG Mobley (2Y), Bell
SF Thomas (2Y), Szczerbiak (LY)
PF Brand, Varejao
C Bogut, Varejao

I know it isn't perfect, but you have set yourself up for a good future, by clearing cap space and still being able to content with Brand and Bogut in the post.

Hopefully you guys get no2, Heat get no1. Heat take Beasley, Bucks take Rose, and we look forward to facing each other in the ECF, or congratulate each other on the 7th and 8th seeds, LOL.

[worthlessBucks]

I like the Clippers deal, it's been a favorite of many of ours for quite some time, and like Novak said, it makes too much sense. Hammond is smart enough to know that he has no flexibility with Redd locked up at his current rate & when you combine that with the albatross contracts of non core players, things don't look so hot for improvement without trading Mike. People scoff at the Randolph deal, but that was realistically the best deal we'll ever see for trying to trade the junk contracts on this roster. The writing is on the wall for Mike unless Hammond is some miracle worker, the quicker his contract is gone the faster the rebuild can begin.

FTR, ideally we'd try to expand the deal to include Gadz on our end with Knight & Powell on theirs.

You did lose me when you tried to trade for Conley though, he had a career night last night, but I'll be a happy camper if Memphis isn't placed in a position to take Rose. Conley isn't going to be this team's savior (so overrated here) and I sincerely don't believe he's worth 2 lottery picks & CV.

[smalls]

i think the new motto for all the sane people in this forum and all the crazy trade ideas is what Detroit fans learned.
IN JOHN WE TRUST!!!

[InsideOut]

People have to look at our team and realize we're in one of the worst situations in the NBA. We suck. Terribly. Yet we have nothing in the way of top tier talent or prospects.

Spending the next couple years in the lotto should pretty much be assumed at this point.
There is no magic bullet for this mess. Stop putting the lipstick on the pig and give yourself a chance in the future.

Unfortunately I think too many people here refuse to accept this. We play in the East and yet are coming off back to back 20 wins seasons. I think I read recently we have finished last in our division 5 years in a row. We have a team littered with bad contracts. You just can't expect any GM and turn this around in one summer. We aren't getting past Detroit or Boston in the next few years anyway so our plan should be to think at least 3 year out. I feel it would be a huge mistake to sell out the future in exchange for a short term fix of 37 wins an 8th seed. I see this as when TT took over the Packers. Blow it up the first year and suck. Then slow steady improvement until we're relevant again.

[paulpressey25]

There was a quote in the MJS this morning about the Piston's whiffing on a few draft picks.....Hammond did say many teams find it easier to build through trades and FA with the draft being a crapshoot.

Look at the Pistons, and you see that they were built via trades and the MLE. Essentially acquiring younger and middle age players who hadn't quite reached their potential yet.

If you assume that Hammond was the "brains" behind the Pistons, which I'm not sure is accurate or not, then you'd assume he would follow the same blueprint. Which would not be tanking and acquiring draft picks.

Rather you'd see things like clearing some salary to make a full MLE offer to a guy like Josh Childress, hoping he'd bust out here. And dealing a guy like CV for a Francisco Garcia type, hoping he'd take another leap here.

I'd look around the league for 2 to 4 year veterans who look like they might break out in the right situation. That would be the direction the Bucks would go, again assuming that Hammond was behind or in full agreement with Detroit's philosophy.

[InsideOut]

There was a quote in the MJS this morning about the Piston's whiffing on a few draft picks.....Hammond did say many teams find it easier to build through trades and FA with the draft being a crapshoot.

Look at the Pistons, and you see that they were built via trades and the MLE. Essentially acquiring younger and middle age players who hadn't quite reached their potential yet.

If you assume that Hammond was the "brains" behind the Pistons, which I'm not sure is accurate or not, then you'd assume he would follow the same blueprint. Which would not be tanking and acquiring draft picks.

Rather you'd see things like clearing some salary to make a full MLE offer to a guy like Josh Childress, hoping he'd bust out here. And dealing a guy like CV for a Francisco Garcia type, hoping he'd take another leap here.

I'd look around the league for 2 to 4 year veterans who look like they might break out in the right situation. That would be the direction the Bucks would go, again assuming that Hammond was behind or in full agreement with Detroit's philosophy.

I also read that this morning. The draft thing worries me a little but again I don't know how much of that had to do with Hammond. Detroit built a lot of that team trading guys like Grant Hill and Stackhouse coming off a 30/4/5 year. Who are our Hill and Stackhouse trade pieces? Before anyone says Redd is our Stachhouse keep in mind that Stackhouse was making 5.8 million his last season in Detroit. Redd makes 3 times that. We also don't have a Grant Hill to trade.

So as I see it we don't have near the trade pieces Detroit did nor the cap space to sign a quality FA. I see the draft as our only hope. If I'm wrong and this guy makes great strides quickly he deserves GM of the year decade.

[paulpressey25]

I don't think the trade assets are as important as being able to identify players that might break out in a different environment. The Pistons clearly have that model down better than anyone in the league.....they know talent.

The big leap to me is whether that was all Dumars, all Hammond or a combination of both. I don't think we know what we have here because Hammond was a #2 and kept out of the spotlight.

[InsideOut]

I agree but we still need to have guys to trade to get those guys that might break out in a different environment. I guess that's what interests me the most. How will he turn over our roster? I feel we don't have easy guys to move. Most are either bad or way overpaid. He has his work cut out for him.

[Chapter29]

The problem is Reggie was better than Redd, a leader and ultra clutch. As far as paying our Reggie 15 million a season....Reggie's top 3 salary years averaged out to about 11 million a season. We'll be paying our Reggie-lite an average of 17 million over the next 3 seasons. Detroit, Spurs and Kings are paying their "Reggie's" roughly 10.5 million a season. It's hard to make up that gap in the cap when you start with a $7 million disadvantage. It will be interesting to see how the new GM handles this situation.

Redd was ultra clutch too. He can get that back, but this season between he Mo and Bogut its a race to jack up shots, not get W's.

Remember inflation when you talk about salaries. If Reggie made 11M several years ago, thats 14 or more today.

Reggie of course is a hall of famer, so I am not attempting to say that Redd is that good, but I certainly can live with paying Redd to be a top shooter in this league even it requires us to overpay. In regards to leadership? I am not concerned. Bogut is slowly developing into the leader of this team. We don't need or want Redd to try and lead this team.

Where I get upset with salary is when it is completely wasted. Like Gadz, Jake, Simmons and Mason to some degree (at least he tries).

[LISTEN2JAZZ]

Michael Redd

for

Tim Thomas
Cat Mobley
6th Pick

I like it

I would be ok with paying a 15M per year for a Reggie Miller. Redd can be that Reggie Miller

I disagree that Redd can be Reggie, and he also makes 17M going forward.

OMG not only Tim Thomas but Darius Miles too, U R killing me.

Those guys would be waived. The goal is to get picks, and the only way to trade big contracts for draft picks is to accept crap contracts in return. No team is going to give great players and draft picks for good players.

[Johnny Newman]

1. Establish a direction. As you will see, my direction is to build for the future. This means trading our established "stars" for prospects and picks. We'll take our lumps for sure over the next few years, but will hopefully come out better for it.

2. Clean up our cap mess. This doesn't have to be done in a single season, but with a crap team like ours, we shouldn't have 3-4-5 year contracts on non-core players.


Trade 1: If you're going to trade Michael Redd, you have to trade him first. This is the deal that establishes the direction of the team's future, as it's the biggest one you'll make this summer.

Michael Redd

for

Tim Thomas
Cat Mobley
6th Pick

The Clipps have stated that with Brand coming back, they may trade their pick for a star type player. This makes alot of sense for them. Redd complements their rugged inside players in Kaman and Brand, and their slashing/scoring wings in Maggette and Thornton. I think that this trade makes them dangerous in the West. Perhaps not to win it, but certainly a chance to win alot of games. It's essentially the Ray Allen return for us. Plus, we add two vets whose contracts expire the year before Redd's does. They also happen to expire the same season as Bobby Simmons. So here, we establish our goal for cleaning up the cap mess as the summer of 2010.


Trade 2: The Mo Williams trade.

Mo Williams
Charlie Bell

for

Martell Webster
Darius Miles
#13 pick


The Blazers could use a player like Mo as either a starter next to Roy who himself possesses quality playmaking abilities, or as the super 6th man off the bench. Charlie Bell gives them depth at the 1/2/3 which they could use. They also clean out the last piece of the Jailblazers persona and awful contract in Darius Miles. We do this to add a prospect and a pick. Webster is limited, but every team needs a designated shooter, and Webster becomes our guy. Plus, he is young enough to fit with the rest of the team and has legitimate size. As for Miles, guess what summer his contract expires? That's right 2010.


Trade 3: Dumping Gadz.

Dan Gadzuric

for

Tony Battie

Battie is old as dirt, and hasn't played basketball in a year. The Magic desperately need a backup center to go behind Howard. Gadz is a guy who will require no shots while giving you 6 PFs and a great game once every 20 games. For us, Battie expires in 2010. I'd add a future 2nd swap or even a protected 2nd to get this done.


Enter the draft with picks #6,7,13.

I see the draft working out 1 of 2 ways.

1a. Riley gets the 2nd with Beasley off the board and decides that he has his star (Wade) and 2nd banana (Marion) and he needs to fill several holes this summer rather than trying to nurture another All-Star type project. We offer 6,7,13, and CV for his 2nd pick. He sees the opportunity to add multiple pieces, including big men for a rookie PG. We end up with Rose.

1b. Alternately, Memphis ends up with #2 with Beasley off the board. They already have Conley. We offer them either the above package for #2, or offer them #6, #13, CV for Conley. I'm not sold on Conley after a pretty disappointing year, but whatever. That's up to someone else.

2. We are unable to make a move and have to draft where we sit. I'm (and looking at the Pistons, I'm sure will be Hammond too) taking smart guys with legitimate size and ability to defend their position. That said....

#6 Russell Westbrook: Athletic PG/SG who has the potential to play lockdown defense at either position.

#7 Kevin Love: Bruin #2. Super smart, rugged player with a great motor and legit talent. I'm looking to get a bit more uptempo, and with his ability to rebound and outlet pass, he's perfect for that system. He either ends up really good or really bad. Either way, he is worth a risk IMO.

#13 Brandon Rush: Jack of all trades, who has produced at the highest levels of college basketball. Good defender, good shooter, good on the break. He'll be a very nice pro player.


Free Agency: I sign nobody longer than 2 years. I probably re-up Mike Ruffin as a veteran backup C/PF and maybe Ivey as a third PG. I think everything else is pretty well covered.

Assuming that draft plan #2 happens, here is what we're looking at...

Westbrook
Rush
Webster
Yi
Bogut

Sessions
Mobley (expiring 2010)
Mason
Love
Ruffin

Ivey
Tiny Tim (expiring 2010)
Battie (expiring 2010)

Miles (expiring 2010)



There you go. Flame away.

I rather try a Mo,CV,#7 for Brand. Or a Yi,Simmons,CV, Gadz for Brand and garbage filler like TT or someone. Or a Mo,Yi,Gadz or something around that area for Brand while keeping Bogut and Redd. I think a Brand and Bogut combo could be best frontline in the east. Then still having Redd. While getting rid of Mo one of the chucker brothers. Then start a pass first point guard like Sessions or anyone that can play some D and pass alot and don't hog the ball much. I'd like to keep Yi but he plays same spot as Brand. Then he would have to sit on the pine. But in the east Brand could play all back up minutes at center while Bogut gets like 30 minutes. So theres 18 back up center minutes. So i'm sure Yi still could get some action on the court. Could even having a starting line up of Sessions,Bell,Redd,Brand,Bogut. Not to flashy but with that better frontline. No one is gonna drive the lane. Redd can sit out at the arc all day while Sessions and Bell horse around.