Bill Simmons:Yi=Biggest Rookie Bust

[smauss]

Yi displaced the former starter so he was allowed to play his natural position.

Bogut got eaten alive by the likes of David Harrison, so the Bucks had to make a move such that he wouldn't humiliate himself when the real season started. That's how he got to PF.

[midranger]

I'm assuming that was an attempt at sarcasm, but if you point out where I was being dishonest or mistaken I'd appreciate it.

The Bucks getting Magloire was a direct response to Bogut being nowhere close to being able to handle NBA centers. Not even in Summer League or Preseason atmospheres.

I'm guessing moving Bogut to PF was about the last thing anyone in the organization wanted or expected.

[smauss]

I'm assuming that was an attempt at sarcasm, but if you point out where I was being dishonest or mistaken I'd appreciate it.

The Bucks getting Magloire was a direct response to Bogut being nowhere close to being able to handle NBA centers. Not even in Summer League or Preseason atmospheres.

I'm guessing moving Bogut to PF was about the last thing anyone in the organization wanted or expected.

Mid, I'm not saying that Bogut was coming into the league being able to play center for major minutes or not get schooled as all rookies do. I'm also not saying you are being dishonest, I just am amused at the blatant hate you have for Bogut. I merely stated that Bogut wasn't playing his natural position his rookie season and Yi did. To me, Bogut even being considered able to play the 4 says much his ability. How well could Yi play center? Now before you go ballistic on how poorly played the 4 I won't argue that he did play the position well but he played it like 43% of the time and was serviceable. IMHO, it was a lousy one year experiment that didn't work. So, I guess if he wasn't close to being an NBA center as a rook, he must have progress significantly to be starting at center the following year.

[midranger]

It wasn't so much his progress as it was him bitching until Magloire was traded, that landed him the starting center role in year 2.

I don't hate Bogut at all. I'm being honest. I just think people have some VERY selective memory on Andrew Bogut's exploits as a Buck so far.

Year 1 went like this:

Destroyed in Summer League and Preseason. Looked way in over his head. Bucks panic and trade for Magloire. Bogut starts at PF. Coach doesn't believe he's ready for that role and places him on the bench in favor of Joe Smith. Coach told that this is unacceptable and Bogut is moved back into the starting 5. Bogut is a solid rebounder and finisher early on. His second second game was a 17 rebound effort IIRC. He hits a couple huge shots against the Spurs and Sixers, comes up with a big block against the Mavs. He gradually fades as he hits his own rookie wall. By the end of the year, he's quitting in playoff games.

[smauss]

I just think people have some VERY selective memory on Andrew Bogut's exploits as a Buck so far.

Agreed Mid.

[europa]

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At least Yi was playing his natural position.....

And as I said before while Bogut had some rough moments in the second half of his rookie season, he didn't spend 2-3 months being one of the worst players in the entire league. HUGE difference between his rookie season and Yi's.

[emunney]

It wasn't so much his progress as it was him bitching until Magloire was traded, that landed him the starting center role in year 2.

I don't hate Bogut at all. I'm being honest. I just think people have some VERY selective memory on Andrew Bogut's exploits as a Buck so far.

Year 1 went like this:

Destroyed in Summer League and Preseason. Looked way in over his head. Bucks panic and trade for Magloire. Bogut starts at PF. Coach doesn't believe he's ready for that role and places him on the bench in favor of Joe Smith. Coach told that this is unacceptable and Bogut is moved back into the starting 5. Bogut is a solid rebounder and finisher early on. His second second game was a 17 rebound effort IIRC. He hits a couple huge shots against the Spurs and Sixers, comes up with a big block against the Mavs. He gradually fades as he hits his own rookie wall. By the end of the year, he's quitting in playoff games.

I remember it going more like:

* Joe Smith to start
* Joe Smith's knee won't stop swelling up every time he steps foot on the practice floor
* Joe Smith starts the season inactive
* Bogut starts

[europa]

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I remember it going more like:

* Joe Smith to start
* Joe Smith's knee won't stop swelling up every time he steps foot on the practice floor
* Joe Smith starts the season inactive
* Bogut starts

I also recall Smith being hurt and the Bucks having only Bogut and Gadz in the frontcourt. And with Gadz being Gadz, Harris couldn't just sit back and do nothing. Magloire was the best frontcourt player available at the time and so Harris made the move. The alternative was to give 30 minutes a game to Gadz and while Harris made the foolish decision to massively overpay for Gadz, he did have the smarts to realize quickly that giving Gadz heavy minutes wasn't the smart move to make.

[wireonfire]

One thing people all forgot is that how hard it is for foreign players (not including those who played college ball here) to adjust to the style of the NBA.

If you check the 1st year stats of the star international players in the NBA, not many had better numbers than Yi did. Ginobilli came as 25 years old rookie and averaged 7 pts in his 1st year.

It is simply too early to call Yi a bust at this point. Let's decide it after next season.

Simmons is a joke, he predicted Yao a bust too.

[Ayt]

One thing people all forgot is that how hard it is for foreign players (not including those who played college ball here) to adjust to the style of the NBA.

If you check the 1st year stats of the star international players in the NBA, not many had better numbers than Yi did. Ginobilli came as 25 years old rookie and averaged 7 pts in his 1st year.

It is simply too early to call Yi a bust at this point. Let's decide it after next season.

Simmons is a joke, he predicted Yao a bust too.

And don't forget Bogut. He blasted him pre and post draft.

I think people too easily forget your main point. Gasol is really the only foreign player off the top of my head that came in and played at a high level right away.

Yao is a freakin 7-6, 300+ pound beast with skills and even he had a long adjustment period.

Next year and the year after are key for Yi. We saw the type of leap Bogut took in the second half of year three. Year two and to a greater extent year three are when you really find out what you have, at least for normal human basketball prospects (guys like Lebron, Paul, etc. being the exceptions).

International prospects, especially those coming from backwater basketball territories like China, are basically like HS prospects. All you hope for is flashes of greatness early and then you hope everything starts to come together in year 2 and year 3.

[teamny1]

Simmons in a recent column still stated that if Jay Williams didn't get hurt he'd be a better player than Yao. Basically saying he'd be a top 5 player. Obviously Simmons has a problem admitting he's wrong and when he does just slips in a "as always I'm an idiot" comment like he's just joking the whole time. If either Yi or Bogut ever become All-Star type talents he'll just state "well Bogut was the 1st overall pick of course he should be, yet he's still worse than Deron Williams/Chris Paul so I'm still right" or that Yi should have been playing better earlier or some other nonsense.

Just the fact that he seems legitimately pissed that the Bucks didn't offer him a GM job and he seriously thinks he's cut out for a GM job shows how big his head has gotten.

[LISTEN2JAZZ]

International prospects, especially those coming from backwater basketball territories like China, are basically like HS prospects.

Except that with HS players, they take three years to develop, and then you can get 10 years of prime out of them from age 21-31.

If Yi takes 3 years to develop, we may only get 5 years of solid production out of him afterward.

[Neapolitan Buck]

Don't forget that Yi and all the international rookies play about 40 games a year, an 82-game regular season is tough for this guys who need a couple of years to adapt.

[LISTEN2JAZZ]

Don't forget that Yi and all the international rookies play about 40 games a year, an 82-game regular season is tough for this guys who need a couple of years to adapt.

I don't think that's true. Yi was playing year round, was he not?

[paulpressey25]

International prospects, especially those coming from backwater basketball territories like China, are basically like HS prospects..

This is probably the best defense I've seen of Yi. I can intellectually buy into this premise despite my gut concern of how badly Yi finished the year.

[redred9]

yep. Ive watched a lot (probably more than NBA) of international ball in my time, and it is played in such a different manner to the NBA, which is all one on one mismatches, quick reaction speeds and specialty skills. It takes awhile for foreign guys to learn this game. I think sometimes when you see a foreign guy bomb out in the NBA, its because they dont really have anything theyre 'specialized' in, theyre just good at a lot of different things- which is the way they're taught. Its like Team USA getting whupped in international tournaments, but the other way around.

I like both styles, but the adjustment period is there for sure. Give Yi a chance, i think.

[Ayt]

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Except that with HS players, they take three years to develop, and then you can get 10 years of prime out of them from age 21-31.

If Yi takes 3 years to develop, we may only get 5 years of solid production out of him afterward.

True, but if you think he has the chance to be an elite player and the other guys available have lower ceilings you take him anyway, provided you are assuming he's not 20.

[wireonfire]

-= original quote snipped =-

I don't think that's true. Yi was playing year round, was he not?

The CBA regular season is less than 40 games. But yes Yi did play a lot more games than that with the CNT.