PG Denver - Bucks Grind Out Win

[M-C-G]

As long as he is learning from this stuff I'm fine with it right now. I hope we don't see it in the playoffs.

he's not a rookie.... he shouldn't be learning anything right now.

He has a brand new coach and system. He damn sure has a lot to learn. Everyone does.

Yeah, I think agree with Crk here. This team has a lot of bad habits to break, generally when this team doesn't look good for stretches it is because they are falling back on those bad habits or just really cold from three. It is important to enforce the new good habits, which means guys need reps and need to learn to play the new non-dysfunctional system.

[Jimmmycrackcorn]

Don't really agree with the idea that Brogdon is getting hate here. He made some bad plays, he made some questionable decisions and the ball stuck to his hand too much. We've literally made that complaint with just about everyone that does it, maybe with the exception of Giannis.

precisely

this isn't a "of the moment" issue with him....but his recent play is really NOT helping the other starting 4 as much as other members of the team do/would.

[Jimmmycrackcorn]

he's not a rookie.... he shouldn't be learning anything right now.

He has a brand new coach and system. He damn sure has a lot to learn. Everyone does.

Yeah, I think agree with Crk here. This team has a lot of bad habits to break, generally when this team doesn't look good for stretches it is because they are falling back on those bad habits or just really cold from three. It is important to enforce the new good habits, which means guys need reps and need to learn to play the new non-dysfunctional system.

his recent habits are contract related.....NOT new system related

[60611]

I think Brogdon is the least important guy of the ones going up for a new contract and think once you pay him he loses all value he has now. He’s just a guy. He’s a good shooter, decent facilitator when not trying to get his, and a decent defender when not matched up with a extremely quick guy.

Many of the same folks who are ready to give a max contract to a guy who had a blazing fast start to begin the season but has now settled in at a more sustainable 45%/42% believe giving Brogdon in the neighborhood of $12 mill/yr is severely overpaying. Pretentious or not, I don't understand that line of reasoning.

Brogdon is the one starter, whom if he suffered a career ending injury tomorrow would be absolutely screwed. It's crazy to expect him to play passively this season, and if Bud has a problem with him, he wouldn't be logging the 3rd most minutes on the team. And for a guy who has been accused of selfisihly trying to "get his," it's odd that he gifts 1-2 50/50 loose ball rebounds/game to Giannis.

[M-C-G]

He has a brand new coach and system. He damn sure has a lot to learn. Everyone does.

Yeah, I think agree with Crk here. This team has a lot of bad habits to break, generally when this team doesn't look good for stretches it is because they are falling back on those bad habits or just really cold from three. It is important to enforce the new good habits, which means guys need reps and need to learn to play the new non-dysfunctional system.

his recent habits are contract related.....NOT new system related

I think it is somewhat of a both scenario, I guess my exception to your comment was that he is a vet and shouldn't have anything to learn. I also don't know how much of this is Bud telling him to do this versus him deciding to do this. I will say that one play a few games back where he didn't give up the ball to Bledsoe, who would have had an easy dunk was very cringeworthy.

[Fresh_Prince12]

I think Brogdon is the least important guy of the ones going up for a new contract and think once you pay him he loses all value he has now. He’s just a guy. He’s a good shooter, decent facilitator when not trying to get his, and a decent defender when not matched up with a extremely quick guy.

Many of the same folks who are ready to give a max contract to a guy who had a blazing fast start to begin the season but has now settled in at a more sustainable 45%/42% believe giving Brogdon in the neighborhood of $12 mill/yr is severely overpaying. Pretentious or not, I don't understand that line of reasoning.

Brogdon is the one starter, whom if he suffered a career ending injury tomorrow would be absolutely screwed. It's crazy to expect him to play passively this season, and if Bud has a problem with him, he wouldn't be logging the 3rd most minutes on the team. And for a guy who has been accused of selfisihly trying to "get his," it's odd that he gifts 1-2 50/50 loose ball rebounds/game to Giannis.

Whoa

[Jimmmycrackcorn]

And for a guy who has been accused of selfisihly trying to "get his," it's odd that he gifts 1-2 50/50 loose ball rebounds/game to Giannis.

DDV and Pat C are doing the exact same every game

It's not like anyhting Brogdon brings can't be brought, in stretches.

Do I like when he's hitting 40% from 3....yes. And that's what he should stick to. He's should be the third ball handler with the starting 5....and maybe the primary when manning bench unit.

[Jimmmycrackcorn]

Yeah, I think agree with Crk here. This team has a lot of bad habits to break, generally when this team doesn't look good for stretches it is because they are falling back on those bad habits or just really cold from three. It is important to enforce the new good habits, which means guys need reps and need to learn to play the new non-dysfunctional system.

his recent habits are contract related.....NOT new system related

I think it is somewhat of a both scenario, I guess my exception to your comment was that he is a vet and shouldn't have anything to learn. I also don't know how much of this is Bud telling him to do this versus him deciding to do this. I will say that one play a few games back where he didn't give up the ball to Bledsoe, who would have had an easy dunk was very cringeworthy.

i saw some guy in Twitter saying that Brogdon is taking those balls cuz he's raising money for some village in Africa or something...and every shot he makes he donates a certain amount.

the problem is there are too many cringeworthy moments from him in the early going. whereas in years past, he's been steady, mostly unassuming, and willing to play third/fourth fiddle......and now he seems to be pressing, and it's really not a good look.

[60611]

his recent habits are contract related.....NOT new system related

I think it is somewhat of a both scenario, I guess my exception to your comment was that he is a vet and shouldn't have anything to learn. I also don't know how much of this is Bud telling him to do this versus him deciding to do this. I will say that one play a few games back where he didn't give up the ball to Bledsoe, who would have had an easy dunk was very cringeworthy.

i saw some guy in Twitter saying that Brogdon is taking those balls cuz he's raising money for some village in Africa or something...and every shot he makes he donates a certain amount.

the problem is there are too many cringeworthy moments from him in the early going. whereas in years past, he's been steady, mostly unassuming, and willing to play third/fourth fiddle......and now he seems to be pressing, and it's really not a good look.

Pressing his way to 49/43/96 and a respectable 2 A/TO. Brogdon is at his most passive at the start of every game. He literally just stands there and gets out of the way (In deference to the Big 3) until he is subbed off around 5 minutes in. For whatever reason, coincidental or not, the Bucks have fallen behind to start nearly every game. Ersan comes in, often after a timeout, the Big 3 start sharing the ball and continue doing so the rest of the game, and the deficit is usually erased.

[DingleJerry]

Could it simply be that he's being coached to be more aggressive in this system rather than some nefarious reasons? That seems to be a theme overall for how they're coaching everyone as opposed to the past regime of slowing up and waiting for Henson to set up in the high elbow.

Overall I think folks are digging or nitpicking a bit much on Brogdon. Do I want to commit 4/50 to him? IDK, but he's basically been what I expected this year and is a contributing good player

[buckboy]

What is with all the Brogdon hate?

I really don't get it. The guy is making $1.5 million this year shooting 49/43/96 and playing pretty darn good defense. You can put him in any role and he won't be a total liability.

I don't know if people remember last year before Bledsoe came but our first unit was **** incredible with Brogdon, Snell, Middleton, Giannis and Moose/Henson. And that was with Kidd as our coach. People claim he can't play point. What a joke.

Is Brogdon making some plays for his contract? Sure. But that is what happens when you have 10s of millions of dollars on the line.

I would also love to see Brogdon waiving off Bledsoe and Bud to say I got this. This is how the perception of one person becomes reality.

Maybe you guys can start a "now is the time to trade Brogdon" thread, look like fools, then when I bring it up in 4 months when everyone is nut hugging Brogdon, somehow it will just disappear.

totally agree....apparently he is the flavor of the day for the basketball experts on this site, now that Jabari is gone. who is next if he gets shipped out?

Well, Jabari was and is a terrible player. So there's that.

I like Brogdon just fine, but I think it's worth considering a trade because I think he's the least likely to be signed long term.

[buckboy]

-Bucks up 8 points last night
-minute and a half left to play in the game
-Brogdon takes the inbound, brings the ball up the floor, and dribbles the ball around for 23 seconds.....panics...takes a drive to the basket and turns the ball over.

Never even tried to run offense.


My biggest gripe with him is when he runs the offense through himself. He's not good at it...and should NEVER do it when Bledsoe and Giannis are on the floor with him.

I reckon there is a rather large overlap in the Brogdon hate / people who like shiny things.

I think the most annoying part of the Brogdon debate is the fact that the guys defending Brogdon have all essential been pretentious and called the people who have said that he is being selfish or making bad decisions stupid. I don’t understand why it goes directly to attacks on people’s ability to interpret what they see.

Exactly like the Jabari debate.

And I don't even want to trade Brogdon, but I'd listen more than the other FAs-to-be.

[Jimmmycrackcorn]

For whatever reason, coincidental or not, the Bucks have fallen behind to start nearly every game. Ersan comes in, often after a timeout, the Big 3 start sharing the ball and continue doing so the rest of the game, and the deficit is usually erased.

not at all coincidental

[Jimmmycrackcorn]

i love the lineup of:

Eric
Khris
Giannis
Ersan
Brook

[M-C-G]

Could it simply be that he's being coached to be more aggressive in this system rather than some nefarious reasons? That seems to be a theme overall for how they're coaching everyone as opposed to the past regime of slowing up and waiting for Henson to set up in the high elbow.

Overall I think folks are digging or nitpicking a bit much on Brogdon. Do I want to commit 4/50 to him? IDK, but he's basically been what I expected this year and is a contributing good player

Could very well be coaching, he just seems to be pressing and doing some things that are appear selfish from how he has traditionally played. I think his driving ability though has been really good for us at times and will be valuable, just see him missing a lot of shots that you'd expect him to make, it happens.

[leroyjw10]

You guys aren't looking at the future enough. We have to pay Middleton/Bledsoe/Brogdon/Lopez next year...we can't keep them all and there is no way I'm paying Brogdon what some other teams will likely offer.

He's a solid player. Great addition to the team, but moving forward he isn't going to have a place IMO.

This mindset was acceptable when the Bucks were bad and had no legitimate shot of doing anything in the playoffs. The Bucks, as currently constituted, have a legit chance of making the NBA Finals. I don't care about the future right now. I care about the present.

The only player in the NBA that currently owns 50/40/90 shooting splits: Steph Curry. Brogdon is next in line. The only way I'm trading him is if we're getting a player like Beal, while dumping Delly and Snell.

The bold is pretty funny. No way in hell would we get Beal from any combination of those 3 players and picks. Especially since our picks are looking like the 20 range.

I'm not touching the majority of our players. But I'd be A-OK getting rid of Brogdon. I'm also fine keeping him.

You ALWAYS look to the future in some ways. You can't strictly focus on winning this season and this season only. We're winning and winning well, I've been saying don't touch our core since preseason, but to sit here and not look for the players that we'd be willing to let go come offseason is foolish. We are CONSTANTLY evaluating players and their future on the team. I want to keep Midds/Bled/BLo at all costs, and if that means moving Brogdon at some point before the deadline, I'm ok with that. His impact definitely helps, but I know it can be filled.

I never suggested Washington would actually do the trade, just that that's what it'd take for me. Trading Brogdon for something similar to a future draft pick just delays what's in front of this team right now: a legitimate change at a NBA Finals appearance. A team like the Bucks can't just pass up on these opportunities.

[M-C-G]

i love the lineup of:

Eric
Khris
Giannis
Ersan
Brook

I've got no numbers to back me up on hand, but I think that is probably our 'closer' line up in a big game.

[Jimmmycrackcorn]

i love the lineup of:

Eric
Khris
Giannis
Ersan
Brook

I've got no numbers to back me up on hand, but I think that is probably our 'closer' line up in a big game.

I've always liked when Giannis gets to match up on opposing 3's much more than 4's.

And I love all the intangibles that Ersan brings to the table.

[Jimmmycrackcorn]

[emunney]

Hey, these things can all be true.

1) Brogdon is a good player
2) Brogdon would not be easy to replace
3) We may have to let Brogdon walk this summer
4) We should not trade Brogdon unless we're getting a *clearly* better player and fit back
5) Sometimes Brogdon does a bad thing