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Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions - Grayson Extended - 2/$20 million

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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1781 » by Milbucks96 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:14 am

Badgerlander wrote:
paulpressey25 wrote:Donte is a much better defender and passer than Grayson. The problems are that Donte can't finish at the rim, has a streaky and not great looking three ball and also has the Clay Matthews tight hamstrings situation.

Meanwhile Grayson is a lot lazier on D, nor can he cover the passing lanes like Donte, despite Allen's combine quickness. But Allen seems to be able to finish at the rim and most importantly has a sweet three point stroke that he quickly gets off.

The great part is that if Donte can get healthy and return by say Christmas, we'd have both of them to work with, and that depth would be amazing.


Yup makes me cringe when people talk about only giving one an extension when we really need both

No way the bucks extend both plus Bobby this coming offseason. You have to make a decision on either one and for me it’s easy just from an availability standpoint.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1782 » by SupremeHustle » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:12 am

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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1783 » by emunney » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:23 am

Milbucks96 wrote:
Badgerlander wrote:
paulpressey25 wrote:Donte is a much better defender and passer than Grayson. The problems are that Donte can't finish at the rim, has a streaky and not great looking three ball and also has the Clay Matthews tight hamstrings situation.

Meanwhile Grayson is a lot lazier on D, nor can he cover the passing lanes like Donte, despite Allen's combine quickness. But Allen seems to be able to finish at the rim and most importantly has a sweet three point stroke that he quickly gets off.

The great part is that if Donte can get healthy and return by say Christmas, we'd have both of them to work with, and that depth would be amazing.


Yup makes me cringe when people talk about only giving one an extension when we really need both

No way the bucks extend both plus Bobby this coming offseason. You have to make a decision on either one and for me it’s easy just from an availability standpoint.


You mean like current availability? Allen's missed substantially more time than Donte.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1784 » by Milbucks96 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:41 am

emunney wrote:
Milbucks96 wrote:
Badgerlander wrote:
Yup makes me cringe when people talk about only giving one an extension when we really need both

No way the bucks extend both plus Bobby this coming offseason. You have to make a decision on either one and for me it’s easy just from an availability standpoint.


You mean like current availability? Allen's missed substantially more time than Donte.

Wow you’re not lying. Well let them both walk and pay my boy Pat 8-).
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1785 » by Milbucks96 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:43 am

In all seriousness, I still prefer Grayson over ddv for his shooting and finishing. I also think he will be cheaper but yea if he’s missing half the season too then you might have to let both go.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1786 » by TroyD92 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:44 am

Badgerlander wrote:
paulpressey25 wrote:Donte is a much better defender and passer than Grayson. The problems are that Donte can't finish at the rim, has a streaky and not great looking three ball and also has the Clay Matthews tight hamstrings situation.

Meanwhile Grayson is a lot lazier on D, nor can he cover the passing lanes like Donte, despite Allen's combine quickness. But Allen seems to be able to finish at the rim and most importantly has a sweet three point stroke that he quickly gets off.

The great part is that if Donte can get healthy and return by say Christmas, we'd have both of them to work with, and that depth would be amazing.


Yup makes me cringe when people talk about only giving one an extension when we really need both


You giving Donte 4/90 with his injury history?
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1787 » by blazza18 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:00 am

Badgerlander wrote:Don’t look now but Sam is toasting the Pacers


Ok I wont
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1788 » by Ayt » Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:49 am

TroyD92 wrote:
Badgerlander wrote:
paulpressey25 wrote:Donte is a much better defender and passer than Grayson. The problems are that Donte can't finish at the rim, has a streaky and not great looking three ball and also has the Clay Matthews tight hamstrings situation.

Meanwhile Grayson is a lot lazier on D, nor can he cover the passing lanes like Donte, despite Allen's combine quickness. But Allen seems to be able to finish at the rim and most importantly has a sweet three point stroke that he quickly gets off.

The great part is that if Donte can get healthy and return by say Christmas, we'd have both of them to work with, and that depth would be amazing.


Yup makes me cringe when people talk about only giving one an extension when we really need both


You giving Donte 4/90 with his injury history?


He won't get anywhere close to that.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1789 » by drone3 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:33 am

30 points for Merrill, happy for him
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1790 » by rilamann » Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:50 am

I've been saying all along, Merrill is going to have a solid NBA career. Sucks we got rid of him. The only consolation is we got Grayson Allen and I would rather have Grayson Allen if I had to pick one.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1791 » by paulpressey25 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:54 am

rilamann wrote:I've been saying all along, Merrill is going to have a solid NBA career. Sucks we got rid of him. The only consolation is we got Grayson Allen and I would rather have Grayson Allen if I had to pick one.


Allen has a fast release and the height and lift to get shots off. We absolutely needed that. Merrill simply takes too long to square up for his shot. That difference will manifest itself once the regular season starts.

ETA: Grayson has more speed to free himself from picks as well.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1792 » by MartyConlonOnTheRun » Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:01 am

paulpressey25 wrote:
rilamann wrote:I've been saying all along, Merrill is going to have a solid NBA career. Sucks we got rid of him. The only consolation is we got Grayson Allen and I would rather have Grayson Allen if I had to pick one.


Allen has a fast release and the height and lift to get shots off. We absolutely needed that. Merrill simply takes too long to square up for his shot. That difference will manifest itself once the regular season starts.

ETA: Grayson has more speed to free himself from picks as well.

It will be pretty close who finishes with more points this year. Tucker or Merrill. This will come back to bite me, but I don't think we will miss either and see them play some meaningless game in March and we will all be like 'oh yeah, I remember that guy'
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1793 » by drone3 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:28 am

paulpressey25 wrote:
rilamann wrote:I've been saying all along, Merrill is going to have a solid NBA career. Sucks we got rid of him. The only consolation is we got Grayson Allen and I would rather have Grayson Allen if I had to pick one.


Allen has a fast release and the height and lift to get shots off. We absolutely needed that. Merrill simply takes too long to square up for his shot. That difference will manifest itself once the regular season starts.

ETA: Grayson has more speed to free himself from picks as well.
Bud has 3 criteria to get court time. D, 3, get to the rim. Merrill had 1 of those. Grayson has all three.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1794 » by rilamann » Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:29 am

paulpressey25 wrote:
rilamann wrote:I've been saying all along, Merrill is going to have a solid NBA career. Sucks we got rid of him. The only consolation is we got Grayson Allen and I would rather have Grayson Allen if I had to pick one.


Allen has a fast release and the height and lift to get shots off. We absolutely needed that. Merrill simply takes too long to square up for his shot. That difference will manifest itself once the regular season starts.

ETA: Grayson has more speed to free himself from picks as well.


Yeah, as high as I am on Merrill, the gap between him and Allen is actually pretty big.

I see Merrill's ceiling as a solid 7th or 8th man. Solid BBIQ guy who can come off the bench and hit a couple 3's and give you a couple hustle plays. Not a bad guy to have on your bench. Grayson Allen is a solid NBA starter on the right team and I don't know if you could find a better fit for Allen than the Milwaukee Bucks. It was a great trade for us. Plus like we've all talked about, the trade also gives you the luxury to move Donte to 6th man and that's huge IMO. I am a big fan of Donte but I've always said I think his best role in the NBA is 6th man. I've always seen Donte as a high energy guy who can give you a defensive spark, grab a couple big rebounds, perfect guy to bring off the bench. I've always been kinda meh on him as a starter. Donte and Portis both coming off the bench is a massive energy jolt and they're both guys who can also give you solid production. Those 2 alone give us one of the best benches in the league. Lets just hope Donte can stay healthy.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1795 » by crkone » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:13 pm

https://www.forbes.com/sites/briansampson/2021/10/14/comparing-milwaukee-bucks-wings-grayson-allen-and-donte-divincenzo/?sh=12eab6544eea

When the Milwaukee Bucks acquired Grayson Allen via trade from the Memphis Grizzlies it was clear he was an insurance policy for the recovering Donte DiVincenzo. DiVincenzo, who held down the starting two-guard spot for all of last season until he was injured in the first round of the playoffs, is still recovering from a tendon injury in his foot and his return is unknown at this point.

Since it’s so natural to compare the two wings, let’s do just that. Here’s a non-exhaustive list of areas NBA players are expected to contribute to on the basketball court. We’ll take a brief look at how the two stack up and declare who has the advantage in each category before declaring an overall winner at the end.

Athleticism
This is both player’s bread and butter. Each listed at 6-foot-5, they excel at flying through the air with little worry about their own bodies and even less for that of their opponents. Both Allen and DiVincenzo have no issue yamming it home on someone or soaring for a weakside block. It’s a staple of their game and an attribute that’s too close to call.
Advantage: Wash

Drives
Although neither player will be asked to do much shot creation on their own, attacking the hoop following swing passes and when the defensive attention is being given to the other Bucks’ stars is an important aspect of their role.

When it comes to this category, the players have two different mindsets. Each guy had about the same amount of drives per game last year (4.5 for DiVincenzo and 5 for Allen). However, DiVincenzo was worse at finishing around the basket (he made just 38.6 percent of his field goals on drives) and more focused on creating for his teammates. Meanwhile, Allen doesn’t possess the same willingness or ability to kick it out once he’s attacking, preferring to finish the possession himself (he shot 48.9 percent on drives). Overall, Allen’s advantage at finishing is bigger than the gap of DiVincenzo’s ability to find teammates.
Advantage: Allen

Catch-And-Shoot 3s
Not every three is created equal which is why I broke the outside shot into two separate categories. Neither player is afraid to pull the trigger when they have their feet set, and both averaged similar percentages in 2020-21. However, I’m going to give the tiny nod to Allen here, as he took 4.1 per game compared to DiVincenzo’s 3.5 and made a slightly higher percentage (39.9 percent to 38.1 percent).
Advantage: Allen (slightly)

Pull-Up 3s
Yet another category that is extremely close to call. In 2020-21, DiVincenzo averaged 1.3 pull-up threes per game and connected on 37.4 percent of them; Allen took 1.3 pull up threes per game and made 35.8 percent. Both players will chuck away if his man goes under a ball-screen or if the opportunity presents itself in transition. That will be valuable considering the outside shots they are sure to get in this offense.
Advantage: DiVincenzo (slightly)

Ball-Handling/Passing/Ball Security
Although neither player will be asked to be the primary ball-handlers, they will be tertiary options in the offense. Allen has taken some huge steps throughout his career in this area, improving both his ability to cut down on turnovers and find open teammates for shots. While his turnover percentage has dropped every year of his career, his assist percentage has simultaneously risen according to Cleaning the Glass. Meanwhile, DiVincenzo has improved his assist numbers while his turnovers have largely stayed the same. When you compare where their numbers are at the end of last season, it’s too close to call.
Advantage: Wash

On-Ball Defense
Allen’s defense is the weaker part of his game—both on and off the ball. He’s not as quick laterally as he is vertically. This puts him in precarious positions and sometimes it’s difficult for him to keep quicker ball-handlers in front of him. Still, the effort is there and he’s crafty in his own way.

As for DiVincenzo, he’s much better off-ball (more on that in a moment), but he’s no slouch when guarding the rock. He’s had a fearlessness since his rookie year and isn’t afraid to isolate against good shot creators (sometime to his own detriment). Still, his short arms and slight frame make it easy for bigger guys to bully him around the hoop while quicker guards can sometimes go around him.
Advantage: DiVincenzo (slightly)

Off-Ball Defense
Unless you’re watching a player religiously, it’s hard to get an accurate gauge of a player’s off-ball defensive ability. And I’m sorry to say I haven’t watched much of the Memphis Grizzlies over the past three years other than their games against the Bucks.

Fortunately for DiVincenzo, this is his calling card. As one of the best off-ball defenders on the squad, DiVincenzo often shoots gaps, stealing lazy passes and taking them the length of the court for easy buckets. This gambling sometimes leads to backdoor cuts from his opponents, but you take the good with the bad.
Advantage: DiVincenzo

Rebounding
While I wouldn’t say Allen is a slouch on the boards—he’s an average defensive rebounder for his position according to Cleaning the Glass—DiVincenzo is simply elite. The Bucks’ draftee has ranked in the 85th or higher percentile for his position in both defensive and offensive rebounding in each of the last two years. He loves to fly in from the perimeter and snag clanked shots from friend and foe alike.
Advantage: DiVincenzo

Overall
If we’re assigning arbitrary points to each player based on the category they won (assuming one point for a clear advantage and 0.5 points for a slight advantage), the better player appears to be DiVincenzo.

DiVincenzo: 3 (Pull-up 3s, on-ball defense, off-ball defense, and rebounding)

Allen: 1.5 (Drives, and catch-and-shoot 3s)

The good news is both guys are on the Bucks so we don’t have to argue over them too much. While DiVincenzo is recovering from his injury, Allen is expected to be the fifth starter. It will be an interesting internal battle to watch once he returns and both guys are 100 percent.

Advantage: DiVincenzo


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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1796 » by buckboy » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:13 pm

If Merrill was taller and/or had a quicker release, I'd give him a chance to be a rotation guy. If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

If he had either of those things he wouldn't have been there at 60 though.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1797 » by emunney » Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:43 pm

Merrill has a super fast release, at least as quick as Allen's if not faster.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1798 » by leroyjw10 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:05 pm

It'll be a minor travesty if Georgios is on the opening day roster in front of Mamu, Bryant, Waters or Robinson. He is a distant fifth in that group, yet is the only one with a contract.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1799 » by ReasonablySober » Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:12 pm

leroyjw10 wrote:It'll be a minor travesty if Georgios is on the opening day roster in front of Mamu, Bryant, Waters or Robinson. He is a distant fifth in that group, yet is the only one with a contract.


Think there's a good possibility he's cut. Only $462,629 of his salary was guaranteed. Still think it was just a favor to Saratsis.
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Re: Bucks News, Trade Ideas, Transactions 

Post#1800 » by drdrG » Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:21 pm

rilamann wrote:
paulpressey25 wrote:
rilamann wrote:I've been saying all along, Merrill is going to have a solid NBA career. Sucks we got rid of him. The only consolation is we got Grayson Allen and I would rather have Grayson Allen if I had to pick one.


Allen has a fast release and the height and lift to get shots off. We absolutely needed that. Merrill simply takes too long to square up for his shot. That difference will manifest itself once the regular season starts.

ETA: Grayson has more speed to free himself from picks as well.


Yeah, as high as I am on Merrill, the gap between him and Allen is actually pretty big.

I see Merrill's ceiling as a solid 7th or 8th man. Solid BBIQ guy who can come off the bench and hit a couple 3's and give you a couple hustle plays. Not a bad guy to have on your bench. Grayson Allen is a solid NBA starter on the right team and I don't know if you could find a better fit for Allen than the Milwaukee Bucks. It was a great trade for us. Plus like we've all talked about, the trade also gives you the luxury to move Donte to 6th man and that's huge IMO. I am a big fan of Donte but I've always said I think his best role in the NBA is 6th man. I've always seen Donte as a high energy guy who can give you a defensive spark, grab a couple big rebounds, perfect guy to bring off the bench. I've always been kinda meh on him as a starter. Donte and Portis both coming off the bench is a massive energy jolt and they're both guys who can also give you solid production. Those 2 alone give us one of the best benches in the league. Lets just hope Donte can stay healthy.


Don't forget Pat. That's 3 people off the bench who I trust in the playoffs.

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