Khris Middleton Contract Discussion (and Poll)

[paulpressey25]

Gotta be one of the closest polls I've seen on this forum.

Definitely not an issue like Yi, who unified the board.

[pifhluk23]

Best case scenario is he opts in and then he's a pretty attractive 40M expiring contract. Worst case is he opts out and we give him 4 years and big $.

Unfortunately this FO / ownership is super conservative so he'll be getting a fat contract from us and become Redd 2.0

[Ron Swanson]

Until someone can provide an itemized breakdown of the 2nd luxury tax apron ramifications and cap stuff under the new CBA (maybe the Jim O. article will), then you can't really convince me letting him walk isn't a disaster scenario akin to what Dallas just went through with both Porzingis and Brunson. And even then, you can still argue that you just sign him and figure out what to do with the rest of the roster later when you don't have any salary commitments past 2025 anyways (not counting Giannis' option year).

[paulpressey25]

Until someone can provide an itemized breakdown of the 2nd luxury tax apron ramifications and cap stuff under the new CBA

I listed it here on page 4 of the thread. The question is does it start this upcoming season or a year or two from now. No clear answer from the league.

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2286626&start=60#p105906764

[-Jragon-]

I get it... the point is that if we don't sign Khris we can't use that money to sign anyone else anyways.. it encourages teams to keep their players and build with them.. but what a messed up system that someone on the verge of being washed and just got outplayed by journeymen is about to get 140 million... what a world we live in..

Ehhh, this is only half right. I do think he's on the *verge* of being washed because of his knee, but he didn't get outplayed by journeymen. He had some very visible defensive problems but was great overall. If I knew I was getting that player for the next four years, I'd have no problem paying him whatever.

Except the problem is that Defense is part of the game too, not just offense. We saw that when Korver came. Especially in the playoffs.. especially when the other teams' small forwards are scoring 50 points and since you have no hope to slow him down you have to put your PG on him who isn't close to your length.

We need 3 AND D guys around Giannis and maybe another ball handler but unfortunately Khris is neither at this time. Even the "journeymen" on all these other teams can at least play some D against the guy across from them -- and they are making just as high of a 3 point % at fractions of the salary. Cut bait (unless we can sign and trade in a beneficial way), get out of the tax and get more of these scrappy D 3 point guys. This next contract is the one we've been dreading.. the albatross.. Don't do it.. I've been saying to do this trade for a few years and we were just late to the party because Giannis loyalty or just overvaluing 1 nice playoff stretch.

[giannis and 1]

Is there any chance of a sign and trade and what would we get back?

[midranger]

We don’t have many teams linked to Middleton besides Houston, who also want Harden. I don’t think they have enough room under the cap to sign both outright at 60 million under.

I can’t see Houston sending Green out for Middleton.

Maybe… Tate, Eason, #20? Sending out that salary clears an additional 12.5 million with the pick’s salary. That puts them in excess of 70 million which could bring them pretty close.

Not great, but better than losing him for nothing, I suppose.

[ReasonablySober]

I haven't seen a good argument for bringing Middleton back, other than, "**** it, we'll figure it out later."

[Couch Potato]

I hope he opts in to be traded or agrees to a sign and trade.

[Couch Potato]

What do you suggest that means? Prepping us for our new cap hell reality?

Know you are friends with Jim O., so don't take this personally. But in the past, whenever an MJS writer (Enlund, Hunt, Gardner, Matt V.) did a very detailed piece addressing Bucks business topics typically only talked about on here and how they'd impact future roster decisions----they usually were fed the topic by someone in the organization. You know, to soften the ground with the casual fan base for when the eventual decision comes down.

If Jim's writing a piece that Horst's GM hand's will be tied behind his back by the new CBA, and it could lead to Giannis leaving, that tells me the team is either preparing for that, or more likely, they are preparing for Khris to walk. And when he does, remind us all that while it sucks, Horst can now do his job without the 2nd apron restrictions.

Let's entertain this thought process, because it could very well be true--

Khris signs a mega deal with a team with ample space. No S&T, he is just gone. How does that affect how we approach Jrue? Extension-eligible this year, horrific in the 1st round, but still holding considerable value around the league, I would think.

If Middleton walks aren't we in the tax yet before we decide to sign all our own guys back with Bird rights?

[tedbrogen]

If Midds walks for nothing, I think you trade Jrue for the best package of young players possible. Sign and trade Brook. And just surround Giannis with as many young, athletic players as possible and see if Nurse can turn it into a swarming D that gets easy transition points.

[Frank Nova]

No way you let Middleton walk for nothing, atleast under contract he’s an asset

[paulpressey25]

If Middleton walks aren't we in the tax yet before we decide to sign all our own guys back with Bird rights?

No, we could actually have $15-$18 million in cap room ($134MM cap). And even if we brought back Brook at $20 million a year, we’d likely be well under the luxury tax of $162 million.

It’s when you bring back Brook and drop $40 million a year on Khris that it not only takes use over the tax, but over the 2nd apron where all those restrictions come in.

If you put all our owners in a room, and told them Middleton was going to walk on a Godfather offer of 4/$160 to Houston, they might privately pop the champagne bottle, since it could save them $300-$400 million and give Horst the normal tools (MLE, buyout guys, trades, etc) to remake the team.

That’s why Jim O at MJS was fed that article.

[MuckyFingers]

Unless Khris is planning on retiring in ‘24, it makes absolutely zero sense for him to opt in. He’s going to opt out.

[humanrefutation]

If Midds walks for nothing, I think you trade Jrue for the best package of young players possible. Sign and trade Brook. And just surround Giannis with as many young, athletic players as possible and see if Nurse can turn it into a swarming D that gets easy transition points.

I find this kind of thinking to be quite bizarre. If history has shown us anything, it's that you need multiple all-star caliber players to compete for titles in the modern NBA. Surrounding Giannis with a bunch of Pat Connaughtons gets us nowhere. You need star quality talent to win. Hell, we don't win the title without Jrue and Khris making series-defining plays throughout the playoffs.

Nah, the only way you trade guys like Jrue or Brook is if it brings back a star quality talent directly or gives you the assets to go get one from elsewhere.

[tedbrogen]

If Midds walks for nothing, I think you trade Jrue for the best package of young players possible. Sign and trade Brook. And just surround Giannis with as many young, athletic players as possible and see if Nurse can turn it into a swarming D that gets easy transition points.

I find this kind of thinking to be quite bizarre. If history has shown us anything, it's that you need multiple all-star caliber players to compete for titles in the modern NBA. Surrounding Giannis with a bunch of Pat Connaughtons gets us nowhere. You need star quality talent to win. Hell, we don't win the title without Jrue and Khris making series-defining plays throughout the playoffs.

Nah, the only way you trade guys like Jrue or Brook is if it brings back a star quality talent directly or gives you the assets to go get one from elsewhere.

If Midds walks for nothing, I see no path to being actual title contenders next season.

[Plossum]

I haven't seen a good argument for bringing Middleton back, other than, "**** it, we'll figure it out later."

He’s still a really good player?

[randy84]

I haven't seen a good argument for bringing Middleton back, other than, "**** it, we'll figure it out later."

He’s still a really good player?

He only played 33 games this year and the Bucks were still the number 1 seed without him most of the year. Not sure his contribution is worth $40 million a year to this team success.

[Lippo]

Heat might be in the finals with just Butler and role players/washed vets.

[humanrefutation]

Heat might be in the finals with just Butler and role players/washed vets.

Bam Adebayo isn't nothing. He's giving them 20-10-4-1 with really good defense.

The key with the Heat is that Spo is coaxing the hell out of those role players and vets. But that team doesn't get this far without Bam.