Summer League Game 4: Bucks/Heat - 4:30 - NBATV

RiotPunch · Post #101 » by **RiotPunch** » Fri Jul 14, 2023 6:26 am

My, how the SL pendulum swings!

Jez2983 · Post #102 » by **Jez2983** » Fri Jul 14, 2023 8:24 am

RiotPunch wrote:My, how the SL pendulum swings!

Yeah it's pretty funny. People over rate college prospects and are surprised when they get thrown together and can't play as there's no system. I think having a good guard and skilled big man is pretty key in SL. Then we have Tacko Fall, with one rebound in 17 minutes despite being the size of two people.

Our performance should be expected if we throw together a stack of high-upside together. If we want to win this, get a heap of older college/overseas guys.

Post #103 » by **paulpressey25** » Fri Jul 14, 2023 9:13 am

Jez2983 wrote:
RiotPunch wrote:My, how the SL pendulum swings!

Yeah it's pretty funny. People over rate college prospects and are surprised when they get thrown together and can't play as there's no system. I think having a good guard and skilled big man is pretty key in SL. Then we have Tacko Fall, with one rebound in 17 minutes despite being the size of two people.

Our performance should be expected if we throw together a stack of high-upside together. If we want to win this, get a heap of older college/overseas guys.

No one here is complaining about the W-L results. It is what your are seeing (or not seeing) on the court from individual players.

midranger · Post #104 » by **midranger** » Fri Jul 14, 2023 12:03 pm

It was a **** show and everyone looked really bad.

Just gotta move forward.

Post #105 » by **paulpressey25** » Fri Jul 14, 2023 2:01 pm

Going through some of the past summer leagues and draft picks, and trying to think of guys we got in the 2nd round.

-Redd
-Ersan
-Gadzuric
-Ramon
-Moute
-Meeks
-Brogdan

Not expecting an all-star to roll out of round 2. But Horst has just not gotten a top 8 rotation contributor.

Ron Swanson · Post #106 » by **Ron Swanson** » Fri Jul 14, 2023 2:13 pm

Last two games have been pretty ugly but eh, when even the "best prospect since Lebron" puts up 9 points on 2-for-14 from the field and gets absolutely rag-dolled by undersized G-league centers , I can't get myself to glean anything from the Summer League environment. I just can't.

lightningrodman · Post #107 » by **lightningrodman** » Fri Jul 14, 2023 2:32 pm

What were Brogdon’s SL numbers like? Surely they must have been good, as he was several years older and more polished than the competition?

Ron Swanson · Post #108 » by **Ron Swanson** » Fri Jul 14, 2023 2:39 pm

lightningrodman wrote:What were Brogdon’s SL numbers like? Surely they must have been good, as he was several years older and more polished than the competition?

He indeed was not.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/summer/1/NBA-Summer-League/34/stats/Milwaukee-Bucks/16

10/5/4 on 34/16/57 (yikes) shooting splits.

Post #109 » by **paulpressey25** » Fri Jul 14, 2023 2:45 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:
lightningrodman wrote:What were Brogdon’s SL numbers like? Surely they must have been good, as he was several years older and more polished than the competition?

He indeed was not.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/summer/1/NBA-Summer-League/34/stats/Milwaukee-Bucks/16

10/5/4 on 34/16/57 (yikes) shooting splits.

Except 22 assists to 3 turnovers. You could see he could operate a team in SL.

You can't read just "stats" from SL. You have to watch all the games, and figure out whether the guy is showing evidence of an NBA level skill(s).

Recalling Thon's first SL, when then unknown Montrezl Harrell abused the heck of him. Now we can say that Trez wasn't a great NBA player, but the guy had a career and a season where he averaged 18ppg. No one knew of him before that SL. He showed "stuff". Thon did not. And it proved out in the years ahead.

Magic Giannison · Post #110 » by **Magic Giannison** » Fri Jul 14, 2023 2:47 pm

I haven't watched the games SL at all but damn, reading your guys reaction doesn't sound good. Only good guys we drafted post Giannis seems to be Donte and Brogdon if you wanna exclude Jabari and the injury and we traded them both.

Yes im still salty about that Donte trade btw.

Post #111 » by **paulpressey25** » Fri Jul 14, 2023 2:55 pm

Magic Giannison wrote:I haven't watched the games SL at all but damn, reading your guys reaction doesn't sound good. Only good guys we drafted post Giannis seems to be Donte and Brogdon if you wanna exclude Jabari and the injury and we traded them both.

Yes im still salty about that Donte trade btw.

I will be glad to be slammed on "Freezing Cold Takes" a year or two from now. But for me at least, all I've seen in these four games is that MarJon could probably be a good 8th man in a regular rotation, ala Corey Brewer, or bit better version of him.

msiris · Post #112 » by **msiris** » Fri Jul 14, 2023 2:57 pm

Love how people make excuses for players when they play poorly. These guys get paid right?

lightningrodman · Post #113 » by **lightningrodman** » Fri Jul 14, 2023 2:58 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:
lightningrodman wrote:What were Brogdon’s SL numbers like? Surely they must have been good, as he was several years older and more polished than the competition?

He indeed was not.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/summer/1/NBA-Summer-League/34/stats/Milwaukee-Bucks/16

10/5/4 on 34/16/57 (yikes) shooting splits.

Old enough to rent a car and he dropped 10 points on Playoff Jrue percentages? Yikes! Doesn’t bode well for his chances of being a playoff level contributor…

Ron Swanson · Post #114 » by **Ron Swanson** » Fri Jul 14, 2023 3:01 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:
lightningrodman wrote:What were Brogdon’s SL numbers like? Surely they must have been good, as he was several years older and more polished than the competition?

He indeed was not.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/summer/1/NBA-Summer-League/34/stats/Milwaukee-Bucks/16

10/5/4 on 34/16/57 (yikes) shooting splits.

Except 22 assists to 3 turnovers. You could see he could operate a team in SL.

You can't read just "stats" from SL. You have to watch all the games, and figure out whether the guy is showing evidence of an NBA level skill(s).

Recalling Thon's first SL, when then unknown Montrezl Harrell abused the heck of him. Now we can say that Trez wasn't a great NBA player, but the guy had a career and a season where he averaged 18ppg. No one knew of him before that SL. He showed "stuff". Thon did not. And it proved out in the years ahead.

Disagree completely. I think people keep confusing Thon's first SL stint with his second. His first couple games he was grabbing every other rebound and looking like a legit stretch-5 (the irony of course being I think that was his only career double-double). It was the infamous 2017 summer league where they "shut him down" under the guise of going back to train with Giannis, but we all saw how terrible he looked.

I'm just not seeing what's got anyone so down on Marjon based on the "eye test". He's a 3&D guy whose game is never going to pop as much as some of these score-first guards and wings in an environment like SL. I mean hell, AJJ has only 11 assists to 14 turnovers. Does that mean he's a bad passer or isn't creating great opportunities for teammates when he's out there? Of course not, he's made some absolute insane dimes that Brogdon could only ever dream of doing.

ShootingtheJ · Post #115 » by **ShootingtheJ** » Fri Jul 14, 2023 3:06 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:Going through some of the past summer leagues and draft picks, and trying to think of guys we got in the 2nd round.

-Redd
-Ersan
-Gadzuric
-Ramon
-Moute
-Meeks
-Brogdan

Not expecting an all-star to roll out of round 2. But Horst has just not gotten a top 8 rotation contributor.

Important to remember that Brogdon averaged 10 ppg on 38TS% in Summer League. He looked like a completely wasted 2nd rounder.

We don't know what we have yet.

Ron Swanson · Post #116 » by **Ron Swanson** » Fri Jul 14, 2023 3:30 pm

Probably just best for everyone to adhere to the only golden rule of Summer League and that's if you look really bad, then you probably suck. Have Marjon, AJJ, and Livingston looked awesome? No, I wouldn't say that. Have they looked downright terrible? Also no. So now you have to make a mental note of where that leaves you on your "Summer League jump-to-conclusions" mat.

Post #117 » by **Prez** » Fri Jul 14, 2023 3:34 pm

Have been busy and missed the last two summer league games. It would appear I chose the right ones to miss lol.

Brogdon shot like 12% (not actually but close enough) in summer league and I’m pretty sure Donte had a 1 point game somewhere in there and both turned into useful rotation players on contenders when healthy. I’ll worry about AJJ/MarJon if/when they’re buried on the bench or getting PT but stinking up the joint in like December. Saw enough in the first couple games to not be super down on them.

jute2003 · Post #118 » by **jute2003** » Fri Jul 14, 2023 3:42 pm

Who knows what the coaching staff was having guys work on as well. These guys might all be awful. Summer league Play just isn't proof one way or the other.

engelmartin · Post #119 » by **engelmartin** » Fri Jul 14, 2023 3:45 pm

at least we've got Timme

emunney · Post #120 » by **emunney** » Fri Jul 14, 2023 3:54 pm

I'm confident there's a correlation between SL and the NBA, but I wouldn't bet on it having strong predictive ability on any individual. Recall Larry Sanders looking like KG as a rookie and then looking like poor man's Gadzuric as a 3rd year -- immediately before having a massive breakout year as a dark horse DPOY candidate. Recall Donte scoring 1 point 2 SL games combined, then being part of the first substitution of the season and contributing as a rookie before his injury. AJ Griffin is having a worse SL than he had a rookie NBA season.

It's fun to see these guys go but I wouldn't make any decisions based on it. Obviously I'd rather MarJon had a SL like Tari Eason, or had two more games like his first two, and it was shocking for him to pick up back to back shut outs, but it's trivial.