Bucks Roster this year is objectively better

[mattg]

Roster is obviously stacked, strongest in NBA since KD Warriors IMO. Interested to see the approach offensively. The amount of high PnR with Dame/Giannis should be over the top...but I need to see the buy-in from Giannis as the roll man, as he has definitely resisted that role offensively his entire career save for 1 playoff series, which was us winning the finals when he wasn't 100%. Granted we have Dame now, so hopefully Giannis is willing to stop driving recklessly from the top of the key and embraces the easiest baskets of his life diving to the rim.

This is very important because IMO our biggest weakness on offense is the ABSURD amount of possessions we waste with bad Giannis forced shots. Even with Dame, if we are to beat Denver in a potential finals match up we simply cannot throw away 10+ possessions per game with subpar shot selection/predictable offensive fouls that we have full control over. Jokic NEVER lets Denver waste possessions, and that's what sets them apart from all the other teams.

We have the potential to win 70 games if we stay healthy and play with a purpose the whole year, but with a rookie HC and an untimely injury we could just as easily win low-mid 50s. Fingers crossed its the former.

[soxperry]

Is there a more perfect player to take the unsung, number 3 offensive role than Khris Middleton? Seriously, he was made for this. He was always overcast as the number 2, but somehow rose to that challenge in the glory run. Now he can slide exactly where he belongs.

[mattg]

Is there a more perfect player to take the unsung, number 3 offensive role than Khris Middleton? Seriously, he was made for this. He was always overcast as the number 2, but somehow rose to that challenge in the glory run. Now he can slide exactly where he belongs.

He is ideal as the skip pass out of the Dame/Giannis PnR. Obviously Midds is a great catch and shoot guy, but he can attack a closeout, and punish rotations in ISO. He should feast. Just has to stay healthy.

[HKPackFan]

Is there a more perfect player to take the unsung, number 3 offensive role than Khris Middleton? Seriously, he was made for this. He was always overcast as the number 2, but somehow rose to that challenge in the glory run. Now he can slide exactly where he belongs.

so how does this work now?

Is Giannis Batman? Dame Robin? Khris Alfred?

kidding aside I agree Khris is like the best #3, it's amazing.

[GoldenAntlers]

It's a non-issue until we start sucking and do nothing about it.

It never got to this point.

[Ron Swanson]

Arguably the craziest thing about the trade is that we were still able to retain all our depth.

Dame
Pat/Beasley/AJJ/Green
Middleton/Marjon/Livingston
Giannis/Crowder/Thanasis
Brook/Bobby/RoLo

Two-ways: Moore, TyTy, Wiggington (hopefully Gortman)

Just a ridiculously stacked Top-8 playoff rotation. And on top of that, a legit 4-5 young prospects with solid rotation player/starter upside. All while still likely having two Top-35 picks to work with next offseason. Let's just go ahead and hand Horst the Executive of the Year award already.

[Hoopz Afrik]

Congrats to you all for landing Dame (even though it sucks to see Jrue go). I think that you all might be a tour-de-force this year. If one of your young wings (MarJon, AJJ, or Livingston) end up being a valuable rotation guy then you guys are going to be awfully hard to stop in both regular and post szns. What's the situation at backup PG for you guys? Do you guys call Cam Payne, ride it out with TyTy, or just keep things open for the time being and reassess the situation a few months in?

[JimmyTheKid]

I'd say!

[jimmybones]

”I feel like all my teammates know and the organization knows that I want to win a championship. As long as we’re on the same page with that and you show me and we go together to win a championship, I’m all for it."

what more do you need? Why wouldn't we be on the same page on this?

Giannis gave this NYT interview for a reason.

Are we sure he isn’t pissed we haven’t traded something like Jrue / 2029 first / 2028 and 2030 swaps / Bobby for Bradley Beal or Dame?

Or even just draft assets for someone like Sexton.

Well done man

[raferfenix]

Giannis gave this NYT interview for a reason.

Are we sure he isn’t pissed we haven’t traded something like Jrue / 2029 first / 2028 and 2030 swaps / Bobby for Bradley Beal or Dame?

Or even just draft assets for someone like Sexton.

Well done man

Appreciating the props especially in the face of how dark the alternative could have been if this hadn’t worked out.

The Bucks and Giannis are doing a lot of PR now about protecting our superstar from charges he callously demanded Holiday and whatever else would be required be moved for a serious upgrade.

But there was an extremely high stakes public facing negotiation that was done here through the media. And somehow Horst somehow pulled it off while refusing to deal any of Bobby, Pat, MarJon, or Portland’s 2024 2nd.

[HKPackFan]

The Cam Payne signing finally pushed me over to agree.

[soxperry]

Giannis gave this NYT interview for a reason.

Are we sure he isn’t pissed we haven’t traded something like Jrue / 2029 first / 2028 and 2030 swaps / Bobby for Bradley Beal or Dame?

Or even just draft assets for someone like Sexton.

Well done man

Appreciating the props especially in the face of how dark the alternative could have been if this hadn’t worked out.

The Bucks and Giannis are doing a lot of PR now about protecting our superstar from charges he callously demanded Holiday and whatever else would be required be moved for a serious upgrade.

But there was an extremely high stakes public facing negotiation that was done here through the media. And somehow Horst somehow pulled it off while refusing to deal any of Bobby, Pat, MarJon, or Portland’s 2024 2nd.

woah.. i totally forgot about that Portland 2nd. that's not nothing. at this point, i dont know if we would wait and use it on a rookie when we could fine tune the roster mid season for the run, but i guess we'll see. it would be REALLY nice if we could finally hit on a longshot prospect like some of these other teams.

[soxperry]

Arguably the craziest thing about the trade is that we were still able to retain all our depth.

Dame
Pat/Beasley/AJJ/Green
Middleton/Marjon/Livingston
Giannis/Crowder/Thanasis
Brook/Bobby/RoLo

Two-ways: Moore, TyTy, Wiggington (hopefully Gortman)

Just a ridiculously stacked Top-8 playoff rotation. And on top of that, a legit 4-5 young prospects with solid rotation player/starter upside. All while still likely having two Top-35 picks to work with next offseason. Let's just go ahead and hand Horst the Executive of the Year award already.

Well, the prospects are fun, but in terms of proven playoff depth that isn't washed, we have:

Dame/Payne
Pat/Beasley*
Middleton/
Giannis/Crowder^
Brook/Bobby

*Beasley didn't really get meaningful minutes past the first round last season, so i'm not feeling super confident about him.
^Might be washed

Feels pretty light, especially at SG and SF. Roster is full. So we are now forced to hold in-season tryouts. I suppose that's fun, but it can't look like this come playoffs.

[Daver]

Arguably the craziest thing about the trade is that we were still able to retain all our depth.

Dame
Pat/Beasley/AJJ/Green
Middleton/Marjon/Livingston
Giannis/Crowder/Thanasis
Brook/Bobby/RoLo

Two-ways: Moore, TyTy, Wiggington (hopefully Gortman)

Just a ridiculously stacked Top-8 playoff rotation. And on top of that, a legit 4-5 young prospects with solid rotation player/starter upside. All while still likely having two Top-35 picks to work with next offseason. Let's just go ahead and hand Horst the Executive of the Year award already.

Forgit payne

[drone3]

Beasley seemed to be lighting it up in RS for jazz with Clarkson. He seems to need the right chemistry to get going... Have a feeling between Dame and Midds are going to make his job a breeze

[midranger]

*BODY LANGUAGE ALERT*

My view is the roster needed a bit of a shakeup from an attitude/complacency standpoint (as well as, obviously, an offensive talent standpoint).

Bringing in a super hungry vet who’d kill for a championship to cement his legacy AND having a couple naive young guys with live legs running around creating havoc feels like a chemistry shakeup needed.

Hate to see Jrue go, but we had a lot of chill/goofy/family guys. Made them lovable, but maybe we got a bit satisfied.

TLDR, dogs go woof

[jschligs]

*BODY LANGUAGE ALERT*

My view is the roster needed a bit of a shakeup from an attitude/complacency standpoint (as well as, obviously, an offensive talent standpoint).

Bringing in a super hungry vet who’d kill for a championship to cement his legacy AND having a couple naive young guys with live legs running around creating havoc feels like a chemistry shakeup needed.

Hate to see Jrue go, but we had a lot of chill/goofy/family guys. Made them lovable, but maybe we got a bit satisfied.

TLDR, dogs go woof

Great point. There isn't many players more hungry than Dame. He's going to be in the lab just as much as Giannis. Then add to it they complement each other perfectly on the court. Lord have mercy.

[old skool]

The Bucks have turned over much of their roster in the last 12 months. Players who played 50% of last year's regular season minutes are gone. I think the Bucks fortunes could hinge on how the productivity of Ingles, Carter, Allen and the defensive side of Holiday is replaced. The Holiday defense is an obvious hole. Ingles, Carter and Allen provided shooting and spacing that doesn't seem to be there from their replacements - though Lillard might replace that by himself. And shooting alone is not enough - Ingles, Carter and Allen shot 50% from 3-point in the playoffs (combined 28 for 56), and the Bucks still got smoked. Replacing that offense is not automatic.

Health is more important than ever, with roster talent being increasingly concentrated in fewer players. The Bucks top end talent is littered with players who have had recent seasons destroyed by injury. Lopez, Middleton and Lillard have averaged 46 games played each over the last two seasons. Add in Antetokounmpo and the Bucks top 4 have averaged 51 games per player per season in that span.

None of this is new information for Horst and the front office. Optimistically I expect that they let Ingles, Carter and Mathews leave and traded Allen and Holiday away for Lillard because they feel they have the talent to replace those losses. I don't think Horst operates in a vacuum. I think he had Payne lined up. I assume that one or more new acquisition has convinced Horst that Holiday's defense can at least be partially replaced. And that the team will have the positional depth to overcome the types of injuries that have befallen Lopez, Middleton and Lillard in recent seasons. Maybe declining vet Crowder can re-emerge as a solid NBA starter - he has the best defensive resume. Maybe Beauchamp can transform his erratic game that kept him on the bench for most of the 2nd half of his rookie season. Maybe Jackson or Livingston can emerge as a 2nd round surprise. Maybe Beasley or Payne can be more than vet minimum contributors. Hitting on one of those "maybes" would be a home run, and it might take two of those home runs to cement a title.

Missing on all of the "maybes" is the more likely outcome. Declining vets, erratic rookies, 2nd round picks and vet minimum players are seldom important contributors. RealGM fan bases are notorious for being unrealistically optimistic. Hopefully Horst has some things figured out.

[Ron Swanson]

As far as where it actually matters though, we're really only trying to replace Jrue's perimeter defense. Jingles, Carter, and Grayson were all nice regular season depth guys we got for cheap, but they collectively contributed next to nothing in the postseason.

I certainly don't agree with all these weird takes (mostly by national guys who have no clue about our roster) about our depth beyond the Top-4 guys. I mean, Payne/Beasley/Pat/Crowder/Bobby is a better starting-5 than what most lottery teams are gonna trot out this year, and that's not even factoring in anything from the young guys. That's a ton of playoff experience coming off your bench.

[Shaffty]

As far as where it actually matters though, we're really only trying to replace Jrue's perimeter defense. Jingles, Carter, and Grayson were all nice regular season depth guys we got for cheap, but they collectively contributed next to nothing in the postseason.

I certainly don't agree with all these weird takes (mostly by national guys who have no clue about our roster) about our depth beyond the Top-4 guys. I mean, Payne/Beasley/Pat/Crowder/Bobby is a better starting-5 than what most lottery teams are gonna trot out this year, and that's not even factoring in anything from the young guys. That's a ton of playoff experience coming off your bench.

since the finals , what perimeter defense?

if he cant defend Butler or Tatum.... whats the use?