Vecsey prints the details on the Z-Bo rumor

[Rockmaninoff]

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I'm viewing it from the perspective of how I'd feel if I was a part of that team. And if you had a player whose poor condition (due to the fact he hated the idea of playing on the team) was a key factor in the team's poor play I'd be hesitant to shower him with a ton of respect at this point in the season. Your mileage obviously varies but I stand by the point that this is yet another example of what a mess this team is. One would hope a highly respected player in the locker room was a player having a good season and someone who actually wanted to be with the team.

Right, but you don't know what it is like to be on the team, and you don't know the intimate details of the situation. You can sit here and judge the situation based off of your notions and your ideals, but the players obviously have a different perspective. And, to insinuate that the players' respect for Charlie Bell is somehow indicative or another example of 'what a mess this team is', is to me, shortsighted and wrong. The mess begins and ends with management, the players know this, thus they side with and respect Charlie Bell.

[europa]

You're right, I don't know the intimate details of the situation. What I do know is that by his own admission Bell didn't work as hard as he should have in the offseason because he was too busy pissing and moaning about his contract and that directly resulted in poor play (and that's being quite kind) which has directly resulted in the team having a poor season.

Sorry, but that wouldn't sit all that well with me if I was Bell's teammate. In time, I'd put it in the past but I sure as hell wouldn't be giving him a ton of respect at the present time. He'd have to do a lot more to earn it given how bad he's been for most of the season.

[Rockmaninoff]

You're right, I don't know the intimate details of the situation. What I do know is that by his own admission Bell didn't work as hard as he should have in the offseason because he was too busy pissing and moaning about his contract and that directly resulted in poor play (and that's being quite kind) which has directly resulted in the team having a poor season.

Sorry, but that wouldn't sit all that well with me if I was Bell's teammate. In time, I'd put it in the past but I sure as hell wouldn't be giving him a ton of respect at the present time. He'd have to do a lot more to earn it given how bad he's been for most of the season.

He wasn't pissing and moaning about his contract, but about the fact that management first of all disrespected him, and then lied to him. Offering him the minimum, then telling him to find a different deal that they would not match, then matching that deal. You can say that it is the way of the NBA, but there are still humans involved in all of this.

The only part of Bell's game that suffered, was his shooting. Otherwise, he was the same player he has always been. What was costing us wins, was Michael Redd trying to be the hero.

[EastSideBucksFan]

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He wasn't pissing and moaning about his contract, but about the fact that management first of all disrespected him, and then lied to him. Offering him the minimum, then telling him to find a different deal that they would not match, then matching that deal. You can say that it is the way of the NBA, but there are still humans involved in all of this.

The only part of Bell's game that suffered, was his shooting. Otherwise, he was the same player he has always been. What was costing us wins, was Michael Redd trying to be the hero.

No, you know what's really costing us wins?

Guys like Bell, Simmons and Villanueva sucking night in and night out for the first 30 games of the season.

Just cause Redd was trying to pick up the slack left by others who could not contribute does not mean its his fault.

I hate this misconception that we are losing because of Redd.

We are losing because are paying players to contribute who suck. Plain and simple. Gadz can't even get off the bench.

Yi should be thrown in there as well. He's really fallen off a cliff lately.

[Rockmaninoff]

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No, you know what's really costing us wins?

Guys like Bell, Simmons and Villanueva sucking night in and night out for the first 30 games of the season.

Just cause Redd was trying to pick up the slack left by others who could not contribute does not mean its his fault.

I hate this misconception that we are losing because of Redd.

We are losing because are paying players to contribute who suck. Plain and simple. Gadz can't even get off the bench.

Yi should be thrown in there as well. He's really fallen off a cliff lately.

Ok then, how about this. Redd was costing us wins against the 'cupcakes' (as Mickey Davis would say) and the bench was costing us wins in the 20-46 point blowouts. Fair enough?

[xTitan]

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No, you know what's really costing us wins?

Guys like Bell, Simmons and Villanueva sucking night in and night out for the first 30 games of the season.

Just cause Redd was trying to pick up the slack left by others who could not contribute does not mean its his fault.

I hate this misconception that we are losing because of Redd.

We are losing because are paying players to contribute who suck. Plain and simple. Gadz can't even get off the bench.

Yi should be thrown in there as well. He's really fallen off a cliff lately.

With this thought you totally dismiss the notion of chemistry and that is simply not right. If you have ever played the game on any level, even pick-up ball and played with a ball hog who did nothing but shoot, how did you react to that situation? In pick-up you can walk away or form a different team, here you are stuck with the person you can't stand playing with and its like cancer, just keep getting worse until you remove it and hope the damage isn't already done.

[EastSideBucksFan]

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With this thought you totally dismiss the notion of chemistry and that is simply not right. If you have ever played the game on any level, even pick-up ball and played with a ball hog who did nothing but shoot, how did you react to that situation? In pick-up you can walk away or form a different team, here you are stuck with the person you can't stand playing with and its like cancer, just keep getting worse until you remove it and hope the damage isn't already done.

I definitely agree with what you are saying.

But why should Redd continue to feed the ball to a guy who is currently shooting 28% or if someone has missed five shots in a game, it's not right to keep giving it to them.


I'm just not buying into the whole "Remove Redd and we are a better team" theory unless of course you can move him for a talent like TMac

[xTitan]

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I definitely agree with what you are saying.

But why should Redd continue to feed the ball to a guy who is currently shooting 28% or if someone has missed five shots in a game, it's not right to keep giving it to them.


I'm just not buying into the whole "Remove Redd and we are a better team" theory unless of course you can move him for a talent like TMac

The simple answer is because you know your teammate is better then a 28% shooter and he will eventually get out of it. Its also something a LEADER does, a smart leader knows you have ZERO chance winning by doing nothing but chucking and alienating all your teammmates, a leader would help get some easy baskets for that shooter in hopes of getting him out of his slump. Thats also only 1 guy, he also has a teammate who shoots over 50% he doesn't give the ball too and other withs various skills, teams win and individuals lose.

[europa]

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What was costing us wins, was Michael Redd trying to be the hero.

In my opinion the biggest problem on this team - and it's by a considerable margin - is the fact Villanueva, Bell and Simmons have spent most of this season playing quite poorly (though Bell has improved of late). Nothing else in my opinion comes close and when it comes and of this team's large number of problems Redd is way at the bottom in my opinion. Blaming him for this team's poor record is a major major reach as far as I'm concerned given how he's one of the few players (along with Mo and Bogut) who haven't stunk for most of the season.

[Rockmaninoff]

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In my opinion the biggest problem on this team - and it's by a considerable margin - is the fact Villanueva, Bell and Simmons have spent most of this season playing quite poorly (though Bell has improved of late). Nothing else in my opinion comes close and when it comes and of this team's large number of problems Redd is way at the bottom in my opinion. Blaming him for this team's poor record is a major major reach as far as I'm concerned given how he's one of the few players (along with Mo and Bogut) who haven't stunk for most of the season.

Ok then, how about this. Redd was costing us wins against the 'cupcakes' (as Mickey Davis would say) and the bench was costing us wins in the 20-46 point blowouts. Fair enough?

[REDDzone]

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Ok then, how about this. Redd was costing us wins against the 'cupcakes' (as Mickey Davis would say) and the bench was costing us wins in the 20-46 point blowouts. Fair enough?

With every post I read of yours I am more convinced you are a Bucks player.

[BuckFan25226]

Holy ****, I just finally read this entire thread. I really had no I idea Redd was this much of a cancer, I guess you could call him a cancer at this point. If push comes to shove, move him for expirings, draft picks, whatever.

BucksSkinsFan, good stuff, we all really appreciate what you bring to this board!

[paulpressey25]

Epi needs to inform the team that the "Uncle Chuckster" label they reportedly have given Redd is not accurate......the Bucks last year were high ranked in points in the paint.....

[trwi7]

Epi needs to inform the team that the "Uncle Chuckster" label they reportedly have given Redd is not accurate......the Bucks last year were high ranked in points in the paint.....

[Max Green]

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In my opinion the biggest problem on this team - and it's by a considerable margin - is the fact Villanueva, Bell and Simmons have spent most of this season playing quite poorly (though Bell has improved of late). Nothing else in my opinion comes close and when it comes and of this team's large number of problems Redd is way at the bottom in my opinion. Blaming him for this team's poor record is a major major reach as far as I'm concerned given how he's one of the few players (along with Mo and Bogut) who haven't stunk for most of the season.

Amen.

[REDDzone]

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In my opinion the biggest problem on this team - and it's by a considerable margin - is the fact Villanueva, Bell and Simmons have spent most of this season playing quite poorly (though Bell has improved of late). Nothing else in my opinion comes close and when it comes and of this team's large number of problems Redd is way at the bottom in my opinion. Blaming him for this team's poor record is a major major reach as far as I'm concerned given how he's one of the few players (along with Mo and Bogut) who haven't stunk for most of the season.

How sad is it that we are paying Gadzuric 6 million dollars a year, and he is just so brutally bad that he can't even make the list of underperformers because nobody expects ANYTHING from him? (After all, don't you technically have to earn at least the chance to perform, before you can underperform?)

What a freakin' joke.

[Max Green]

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How sad is it that we are paying Gadzuric 6 million dollars a year, and he is just so brutally bad that he can't even make the list of underperformers because nobody expects ANYTHING from him? (After all, don't you technically have to earn at least the chance to perform, before you can underperform?)

What a freakin' joke.

You can thank our joke of a GM for that.

[BuckFan25226]

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You can thank our joke of a GM for that.

Become privy to what actually goes on in the Bucks front office before you start to rip LH.

[Max Green]

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Become privy to what actually goes on in the Bucks front office before you start to rip LH.

I'll rip LH if I damn well please. He's the GM, he signs and trades guys. If he can't stand the heat get the hell out of the kitchen. Herb Kohl isn't the first and won't be the last of the meddling owners.

[75totheMACCfund]

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I'll rip LH if I damn well please. He's the GM, he signs and trades guys. If he can't stand the heat get the hell out of the kitchen. Herb Kohl isn't the first and won't be the last of the meddling owners.

you obviously don't have a handle on what power LH has, or what perhaps should be more explicitly stated for you, doesn't have.