Gary Woeful on WSSP: Redd/T-Mac

[BuckFan25226]

I just read the thread and commented, WOW!

[showtimesam]

I think redd plus CV for Mcgrady and Wells makes the bucks VASTLY better.

Mcgrady while not a great defender would be much better than redd, plus his playmaking is MUCH better than redd as well.

Plus he can defend either sg's or those 6'10 sf's out there.

Wells for CV is also gravy too. CV has no role here anymore, and he doesn't have as much value as I wish he had. I'd do redd for mcgrady straight up, but if the rockets want CV for Wells, I'd be fine doing that as well.

From there you can either start mo at pg with wells and mcgrady, or start ivey at pg with mo at the 2 spot and mcgrady at the three.

If this deal is out there I really hope the bucks pull the trigger.

[BuckFan25226]

I think redd plus CV for Mcgrady and Wells makes the bucks VASTLY better.

Mcgrady while not a great defender would be much better than redd, plus his playmaking is MUCH better than redd as well.

Plus he can defend either sg's or those 6'10 sf's out there.

Wells for CV is also gravy too. CV has no role here anymore, and he doesn't have as much value as I wish he had. I'd do redd for mcgrady straight up, but if the rockets want CV for Wells, I'd be fine doing that as well.

From there you can either start mo at pg with wells and mcgrady, or start ivey at pg with mo at the 2 spot and mcgrady at the three.

If this deal is out there I really hope the bucks pull the trigger.

Actually T-mac is very good defender. I believe he was the only player I've ever seen give Big-Dog so much trouble on the offensive end. Him and Bonzi would make a very significant impact on this team on both sides of the ball, especially defense.

[-Jragon-]

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Start on this page, and keep reading until MBBOT takes over the topic (I think page 8 ). It is well worth the read:

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic. ... c&start=36

First time I saw this. Wow, is all I have to say. That is some shocking info.

Thank you Buckskins.

[xTitan]

I would do Redd for McGrady along with what filler we'd have to give them but not interested in bringing back Wells. I guess I would rather trade CV for a more "team" oriented 3 who can defend and/or possibly a bigger PG. I do find it funny that some are playing the, "we could live to regret trading CV card", you might be saying the same things 4 years from now.

[fam3381]

Actually T-mac is very good defender. I believe he was the only player I've ever seen give Big-Dog so much trouble on the offensive end. Him and Bonzi would make a very significant impact on this team on both sides of the ball, especially defense.

I'm not exactly sure which vintage McGrady you're talking about, but I don't think you can equate the volume-scoring, more injury plagued T-Mac of today to the younger T-Mac who used to block over a shot per game. My impression is that he's similar to many players who have regressed defensively as they've aged and become more focused on offense.

[EastSideBucksFan]

I would do Redd for McGrady along with what filler we'd have to give them but not interested in bringing back Wells. I guess I would rather trade CV for a more "team" oriented 3 who can defend and/or possibly a bigger PG. I do find it funny that some are playing the, "we could live to regret trading CV card", you might be saying the same things 4 years from now.

When you factor in games missed, I think Redd = McGrady pretty well at this point


Then when you look at CV = Bonzi Wells (who will be FA) it leaves a pretty sour taste in my mouth that our first round pick (TJ into CV) turned into Bonzi Wells who will walk at the end of the year.


I'd much rather trade CV for Pietrus at this point, even with his bird rights waived in an attempt to resign him.

We need to get some sort of a young swingman for CV who will stay here and hopefully be our starting 3 at some point.

[bango_the_buck]

Here's an article from Jonathan Feigen of the Houston Chronicle with his take on the McGrady rumors:

League's rumor mill seems to be getting out of control
Rockets All-Star McGrady linked to speculation, reports of trade

This sort of thing happens all over the NBA these days. It is one of the byproducts of the Internet age.

But it is still fascinating to watch develop and move along step by step.

Skip to the end, to where we are today after nearly a month of the rumor mill churning out speculation the Rockets have or would entertain conversations about trading Tracy McGrady and this is what you get.

"There have been no trade talks," Rockets general manager Daryl Morey said. "None. Nothing."

But there has been media conversation about the merits of such a thing, leading to rumors, leading to reports. And it is not just the media and Internet chat rooms that have created the buzz.

Morey's peers picked up on that like everyone else, assumed smoke indicates fire, and started gossiping, too.

In this case, the kindling came when the Rockets were in Denver on Dec. 20 and played the Nuggets into double overtime. Magic Johnson said on TNT the Rockets likely need to break up the Yao Ming-Tracy McGrady foundation, that the combination is not working.

The next week, a column in the Chicago Tribune proposed a McGrady-to-Chicago trade. There was no suggestion that such a thing would happen or had been discussed, but that the writer thought it would be a good idea.

(Something like that happened earlier this season when a column suggested that the Heat should trade Shaquille O'Neal. When the subsequent rumors swirled, O'Neal became concerned and Pat Riley issued a statement refuting reports of an O'Neal trade, though it was not a report at all.)

The Tribune item about McGrady included a reference that he was unhappy, which at the time, he was. But if the Rockets traded everyone that was unhappy with the way things were going in mid-December, Rick Adelman would have had to issue uniforms to Jack Sikma, Elston Turner and T.R. Dunn (which at the time, might have been a good idea, anyway.)

The next day, the Rockets were in Detroit where one of the Pistons borrowed the Charles Barkley line about Vince Carter ("He's half man, half a season.") and attached it to McGrady. That made the Detroit News about a week later, causing conjecture.

Soon, Marc Stein on ESPN said the Rockets have had "exploratory talks" with Chicago about McGrady, something Morey denies in every form of "exploratory talk." But in the days leading to the ESPN comment, there had been front office types in the league talking and asking one another and asking media members about trade talk involving McGrady, having picked up and slightly misinterpreted the original Tribune column.

By last week, Internet rumors were popping up every few days, with many around the league moving from speculating that the Rockets might entertain a deal, to laughing about the rumors and debating which idea was worst.

The Rockets' success without McGrady did nothing to quell gossip. To the Rockets, it meant such a deal was less likely.

The way the Rockets have played lately has made them more confident about their roster, to say nothing of better position in the playoff race. The better they feel about their offseason acquisitions and their chances, the more likely they are to want to let it all play out as they planned when they were such a trendy preseason pick to contend.

That does not mean any of this will end. It will change a bit, as it has since McGrady was supposedly going to the Lakers for Kobe Bryant. His first 4-of-16 shooting game should spark it all up again.

Until then, there will always be another hot topic. Did you hear about Andre Miller?

[BuckFan25226]

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I'm not exactly sure which vintage McGrady you're talking about, but I don't think you can equate the volume-scoring, more injury plagued T-Mac of today to the younger T-Mac who used to block over a shot per game. My impression is that he's similar to many players who have regressed defensively as they've aged and become more focused on offense.

Sure, he's not quite what he was 4 or 5 years ago, not a lot of guys are athetically, yet still a good defender. Also much better then Redd, but that goes without saying. Someone who also, when he needs to, can be a lock down/shut down defender. Look at Kobe for example, like T-mac, can take nights off if you will if they aren't guarding someone known as an offensive threat.

And I'm not sure I'd look at blocked shots to factor in how much T-mac's defense has declined. Bruce Bowen is another guy to look at, still one of the best perimeter defenders in the game at age 36.

I completely agree with the part in bold. Yet I still consider him a good defender. And I'm not quite sure if you're implying he's regressed a lot, or a little. Of course I'm saying he hasn't regressed so much to where he's not a good defender anymore. While he does have more mileage coming from high school, he is still only 28.

[Sigra]

T-Mac also happens to lead his team in assists at 5.1, last year he had almost 7 a game. His career average is 4.6. Redd's highest assist year is this year at 3.7 and his career average is 2.2.

Like it was said, you can't compare McGrady to Redd when it comes to playmaking. McGrady is leaps and bounds better than Redd.

Not just playmaking but also defense. There was a time when T-Mac defended Garnet with success.

Defense: T-Mac >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Redd
Playmaking: T-Mac >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Redd

Just what we need. Who ever think that things would not change after that trade really have no bussines to think.

[-Jragon-]

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Not just playmaking but also defense. There was a time when T-Mac defended Garnet with success.

Defense: T-Mac >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Redd
Playmaking: T-Mac >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Redd

Just what we need. Who ever think that things would not change after that trade really have no bussines to think.

Great post. I was waiting for you to chime in on this one.

[jeremyd236]

T-Mac has never won a playoff series.

[BucksRuleAll22]

Do it.

[icat2000]

Something needs to change and maybe a change of teammates could work for both players. Redd just doesn't fit here anymore.

[fam3381]

And I'm not quite sure if you're implying he's regressed a lot, or a little. Of course I'm saying he hasn't regressed so much to where he's not a good defender anymore. While he does have more mileage coming from high school, he is still only 28.

I can't say exactly how much he's regressed or where he is, as I don't see him enough to be honest. I was basing my comment largely on some more recent stuff I've read/heard and what I can remember of him as a younger player.

Unlike Kobe, McGrady's also never been an all-defensive team type guy, so I don't think he's ever been quite in that league. But it's difficult because defensive reputation isn't the best way to judge a guy's defense either. I don't disagree that he'd be better than Redd, as McGrady's length and athleticism can make up for a lot.

I'm just wary of giving TM too much credit, even though I'd happily swap him for Redd.

[Profound23]

T-Mac has never won a playoff series.

Well Redd hasn't either, so that's a wash now look at everything else and realize TMAC is better than Redd and anyone who wouldn't do this trade should never be allowed to watch an NBA game again.

[Simulack]

T-Mac has never won a playoff series.

What's Redd as a starter in the playoffs? 4-12 or something like that? (2 wins against NJ, two against Detroit maybe?)

This deal is a no-brainer for the Bucks although I doubt there is much substance to the rumor. McGrady's ball-handling, passing and play-making ability alone would be a big addition to this team. He just seems like a piece that fits much better with our other pieces than Redd does.

Does it make us significantly better? Most likely not but it's unreasonable to expect one trade to do that. It would be a nice improvement and step in the right diretion though.

[MilBucksBackOnTop06]

Woeful was on this morning at 6am - January, 16 2008

*The Bucks never were interested in Randolph

*Houston still wants to trade McGrady and would like Redd in return

*This is the trade to watch for

*T-Mac is getting blamed for Houston's problems just like Redd is here


Maybe this is one of those trades that's good for everyone. Redd is a healthier, great shooter that Houston needs. T-Mac would have more trust and respect from our players than Redd gets. Tracy passes out of double teams well which would open up our offense.

I dont go one what some guys say. The BUCKS SHOULD HAVE BEEN INTERESTING IN ZACH RANDOLPH. That is EXACTLY WHO THEY NEED!

That is why they are losing now! Harris' neglect to get someone like Zach next to Bogut. That is why they are incompetant now.

They have no idea about the synergy of a team, and factor in certain things over winning.

I would love to have T-Mac here, but he is not coming here and I don't want to go through this bullcrap thinking he is. ONLY IF HE PUBLICLY wants to come...

I was on T-Mac's website and he is laughing at the idea of coming near Milwaukee when he laughed off rumors even to the Bulls, which I am convinced was the wrong destination he is set to go.

I think indirectly he was laughing at coming to Milwaukee. I could be off on that but I don't think so. Maybe he was laughing to keep from crying about coming here?

He probaly laugh to force himself for saying something knowing he is due to come in on Febuary 2. Yes, I would love to have him here. Are you kidding!?

Hell yeah you bring T-Mac in. This is laughable for you to even ask it. Of course you bring him in if they (Bucks') are really committed to winning they are used to having guys come in who don't want to be here and it shows...!

Tracy makes everyone around him better, and Andrew Bogut and Yi are more mobile guys for him to set up and play off of! He would be a Super-Star here.

You would not have to worry about not getting to the free throw line, you would have to worry about a guy who is clutch rembering his 12pts in 15 seconds...or something like that last year.

You would have any question who 'the man' is and you would draw up fans on both the road and at home and compete with the Brewers and Packers for ink in this town.

It's a no-brainer. But I would rather have Ron Artest and Zach Randolph!
Those two are who they need even over T-Mac, if that is possible and you know what a huge T-Mac fan I am...

My only concern would be where his head is at. He can be a sensitive dude and be passive negative in coming here if this is true.

But heck yes you do it.

[Simulack]

BTW here are T-Mac's playoff stats:

29.8 ppg, 6.8 rpg and 5.8 apg

McGrady has averaged over 30 in 4 of the 6 playoff series he's been involved in.


Here are Redd's:

13.5 ppg, 4.2 rpg and 2.2 apg

Those averages are low because he only played a little over 20 minutes per game against the Nets... and you can argue he had to go up against a great defensive team against Detroit the other two times... Still, bringing McGrady's playoff history into the conversation isn't a very convincing argument: he's proven a lot more than Redd has.

I guess I was wrong about the Nets series, I thought Redd was starting then after the Allen trade. I forgot we started Payton/Cassell. So Redd's record as a starter is 2-8.

[blkout]

Ugh, no thanks.

McGrady:

25.8 pp40
17.3 AST-r
7.6 REB-r
8.2 TO-r
30.3 USG-r


Redd:

24.4 pp40
13.9 AST-r
7.6 REB-r
9.9 TO-r
25.8 USG-r

So if you want Redd's production at the expense of Mo/Bogut etc getting even less of the ball, then by all means trade for McGrady.