Would you swap CV for Tyrus Thomas?

[Nebula1]

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There was a rumor that he demanded to be traded. I like him too, I just don't think he has much of a future here with Yi. A guy like Noah covers the 4/5, despite everyone hating him. Charlie doesn't have that versitility.

Noah is insane.

If Charlie really did demand a trade, then I'd deal him, but not for Thomas. That guy has no brain. Charlie is just kinda lazy.

At least start him at 3 for 10 games and see how it works before dealing him.

I say we at least keep him through his rookie contract. He'll give good effort in his contract year.

[EastSideBucksFan]

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There was a rumor that he demanded to be traded. I like him too, I just don't think he has much of a future here with Yi. A guy like Noah covers the 4/5, despite everyone hating him. Charlie doesn't have that versitility.

I think you need to go find a picture of Joakim Noah and have some alone time.

[Rockmaninoff]

Noah is insane.

Insanely talented and what we need to back up Bogut and Yi.

[Rockmaninoff]

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I think you need to go find a picture of Joakim Noah and have some alone time.

And, I think you need to find a better argument. You can't debate, so you resort to insults?

I've said repeatedly that I like the player, not the person. I want this team to get better. I don't have to be a huge fan of every player, for that to happen.

[Nebula1]

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Insanely talented and what we need to back up Bogut and Yi.

Sorry, I'm gonna have to disagree with you. He's not Rasheed insane (who I love), he's "get benched by your teammates as a rookie" insane. Too many flags for me.

Should've just kept Brian Skinner for a season.

There are other guys out there better than Noah, if you want rebounding and hustle. Mikki Moore is great at that, for example.


I'm advocating a trade with Sacramento to bring back Artest for a short stint. Plus Ruffin is bringing a little something to the table now.

[EastSideBucksFan]

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Sorry, I'm gonna have to disagree with you. He's not Rasheed insane (who I love), he's "get benched by your teammates as a rookie" insane. Too many flags for me.

Should've just kept Brian Skinner for a season.

There are other guys out there better than Noah, if you want rebounding and hustle. Mikki Moore is great at that, for example.


I'm advocating a trade with Sacramento to bring back Artest for a short stint. Plus Ruffin is bringing a little something to the table now.

Horrible example in regards to rebounding

Moore is starting, playing 29MPG and is only averaging 5.9 rebounds. Thats horrible.

[Rockmaninoff]

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Horrible example in regards to rebounding

Moore is starting, playing 29MPG and is only averaging 5.9 rebounds. Thats horrible.

Thank you. Mikki Moore and Brian Skinner are not in his class. The fouls are because he is a rookie who isn't getting a lot of minutes. Give him minutes, and those fouls gradually diminish. Look at the Per 36 min. stats.

Getting traded would surely be a wake up call for him (Noah). I don't like his personality, but this is the type of risk that good teams take. The Pistons would do this. He is insane like Rasheed.

[Nebula1]

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Horrible example in regards to rebounding

Moore is starting, playing 29MPG and is only averaging 5.9 rebounds. Thats horrible.

That may be his stats, but Mikki plays his ass off and is capable of doing a variety of things for you. I like guys like that.

[Nebula1]

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Thank you. Mikki Moore and Brian Skinner are not in his class. The fouls are because he is a rookie who isn't getting a lot of minutes. Give him minutes, and those fouls gradually diminish. Look at the Per 36 min. stats.

Getting traded would surely be a wake up call for him (Noah). I don't like his personality, but this is the type of risk that good teams take. The Pistons would do this. He is insane like Rasheed.

So you're advocating trading for a crazy person, who wants to be a starter down the line, yet you want to keep him on the bench, yet completely lacks any sort of professionalism?

Moore and Skinner outclass Noah by being professional basketball players. You load your bench with guys like that, not crazy rookies.

[EastSideBucksFan]

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That may be his stats, but Mikki plays his ass off and is capable of doing a variety of things for you. I like guys like that.

I don't disagree with the energy factor


But lots of guys can have good rebounding nights against certain opponents (like Gadzuric) its being able to do that night in and night out.


I'm just saying Mikki Moore is not a guy you target to improve team rebounding. Like Gadzuric, Moore needs a smart playmaker to get him the ball in the right spots to be able to make an offensive contribution.

[Rockmaninoff]

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That may be his stats, but Mikki plays his ass off and is capable of doing a variety of things for you. I like guys like that.

Kind of like Noah who is better at all of those things, on a rookie scale contract, and can play the 4 and the 5. I don't like his personality.

[fam3381]

Moore is starting, playing 29MPG and is only averaging 5.9 rebounds. Thats horrible.

Yep, 11.4 rebound rate last year and 12.1 this year...among PFs the only 7-footer with a worse rebound rate is Bargnani. He'd easily be the worst rebounder among our bigs.

[nwy2211]

If Noah wasn't such a headcase I would welcome him with open arms.

[Rockmaninoff]

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So you're advocating trading for a crazy person, who wants to be a starter down the line, yet you want to keep him on the bench, yet completely lacks any sort of professionalism?

Moore and Skinner outclass Noah by being professional basketball players. You load your bench with guys like that, not crazy rookies.

Yes, because he can leave after his rookie contract if he wants to be a starter, but in the meantime, he would get almost all of the backup 4 and 5 minutes. 30-36 minutes a game, he wouldn't be on the bench much at all. If he is not happy with that, then trade him.

He is just way more talented than either of those guys. Way more talented than Voskuhl, Ruffin, and Gadzuric. If we got Noah, every team that we played, would turn into a jumpshooting team. I want him for the defense, intangables, and endless motor.

[Nowak008]

You would have to be insane not to do TT for CV. Noah for CV would be beneficial for both teams. Another thing to consider is that CV has apparently asked for a trade and this would be good value for him.

[Sonny_D1]

Apparently there are guys there who wouldn't even trade TT for Bogut.

If you're going to quote me, at least let our fellow readers know the context in which the quote was made. My position on a TT/Bogut swap has nothing to do with their actual talent level, but more so to do with the current makeup of our team.

As I stated in that thread, I believe Noah is going to be a very good center for our team. As a rookie, his per 36 numbers are almost identical to Bogut

[Rockmaninoff]

BTW, regarding this thread since I

[Sonny_D1]

Because he can finish around the basket better than those (2) players can, the chemisty would be good with the Deng/Gordan connection, and you have enough defense to cover for him. Your team needs scoring, period. Low post or not. You guys also have Ben Wallace, who the coach can't just bench with that contract. Ben Wallace is Noah's problem, and it would be easier to move Noah, as opposed to Wallace. Plenty of good PF/C coming up in the 2008 draft for you guys to replace Noah with, and eventually Wallace. Wallace was very successful with a power forward with the same skill set as CV, Rasheed Wallace. There are some reasons.

So let me get this straight. Let's correct the $60million problem by trading away our young defensive stud(s), that as rookies, are currently outplaying him in every statistical category, by a mile. Is that what you're saying? How about pulling a Steve Francis on his ass and sending him home?

BTW, in case you haven't noticed, BW doesn't play defense. No he really doesn't, no matter who's next to him. And this may be shocking, but he doesn't play any offense either. So no, the little benefit we'd get from CV would be greatly outweighed by the loss of a TT/Noah in the future.

This may suprise you but even though the shooting % of our entire core is down across the board, it's our defense that's taken the biggest hit from last year. Last year we were 21st in offensive rating, this year we're 25th, not that far off. However last year we were 1st in defensive rating, this year we're ranked 13th.

Our problems run deeper than what CV would bring to the table. Besides we have a finisher in Deng. What good is he when we don't ulitize him properly? The problem is our offensive schemes aren't set to utilize our players strengths. We don't really have a true PG that can penetrate and dish, and that coupled with no low post scoring presence greatly exacerbates the problem.

CV is far from what we need.

Edit: Sorry, I don't want to hijack your thread and turn this into a Bulls discussion.

[Rockmaninoff]

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So let me get this straight. Let's correct the $60million problem by trading away our young defensive stud(s), that as rookies, are currently outplaying him in every statistical category, by a mile. Is that what you're saying? How about pulling a Steve Francis on his ass and sending him home?

BTW, in case you haven't noticed, BW doesn't play defense. No he really doesn't, no matter who's next to him. And this may be shocking, but he doesn't play any offense either. So no, the little benefit we'd get from CV would be greatly outweighed by the loss of a TT/Noah in the future.

This may suprise you but even though the shooting % of our entire core is down across the board, it's our defense that's taken the biggest hit from last year. Last year we were 21st in offensive rating, this year we're 25th, not that far off. However last year we were 1st in defensive rating, this year we're ranked 13th.

Our problems run deeper than what CV would bring to the table. Besides we have a finisher in Deng. What good is he when we don't ulitize him properly? The problem is our offensive schemes aren't set to utilize our players strengths. We don't really have a true PG that can penetrate and dish, and that coupled with no low post scoring presence greatly exacerbates the problem.

CV is far from what we need.

Edit: Sorry, I don't want to hijack your thread and turn this into a Bulls discussion.

So, you guys are the cliched Atlanta Hawks (all swingmen)? No need to apologize, a discussion is a discussion. But, the stuff you said about your team doesn't surprise me. I'm a pretty big NBA fan and know the league pretty well (as do you). I'm just trying to explain to Bucks fans what a coup it would be to get Noah from you guys, for CV, and the reasons why it might be realistic. I understand where your coming from in the matter.

[Sonny_D1]

So, you guys are the cliched Atlanta Hawks (all swingmen)? No need to apologize, a discussion is a discussion. But, the stuff you said about your team doesn't surprise me. I'm a pretty big NBA fan and know the league pretty well (as do you). I'm just trying to explain to Bucks fans what a coup it would be to get Noah from you guys, for CV, and the reasons why it might be realistic. I understand where your coming from in the matter.

You're absolutely right, I think guys like TT or Noah would be wonderful fits for the Bucks. All you need to do is look at their PER, their per36, look at whatever statistical measure you'd like, these kids have the talent and they've been quite productive when they've been on the floor. TT has a PER of almost 14 and I believe as of the other day Noah was leading all rookies with 18. It's a shame their talent is being wasted in what's thus far been a wasted season for the Bulls.