Has Hammond extended Bogut already?

[Sigra]

Ginobli and thats the list.

Thats the list for you, jerrod, mid and drugbust (sorry if I forgot someone)

[Nowak008]

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Thats the list for you, jerrod, mid and drugbust (sorry if I forgot someone)

Who else is would be a better 6th man? I'll take Mo over Barbosa, Terry, JR Smith, there aren't too many good 6 men in this league.

[europa]

I'd view Mo to be on the same level as Barbosa, Gordon and Terry. As for the sixth men I'd take ahead of Mo for the Bucks here's my list (based on players who received votes for this season's Sixth Man of the Year Award):

Ginobli (obviously)
Korver
Josh Childress
J.R. Smith
Jason Maxiell
Travis Outlaw
Linas Kleiza
David Lee
Andres Nocioni

Now in some cases, one could argue Mo is more "talented" than some of these guys. But for me, I place a higher value on what guys like Lee and Maxiell provide at PF than what Mo provides as a shooter. Or the value of guys like Outlaw and Nocioni on the wing.

Now to another critical aspect: The only player on this list who is making more than Mo is Ginobli. Many of them are making half of what Mo gets. So unless you're an All-Star-caliber player like Ginobli you aren't getting paid nearly $9M a year in most cases to be a sixth man the way Mo would be. He's being paid starter's money and for most of the teams in the league they aren't in a position where they can pay that much for a backup.

[Chuck Diesel]

Michael Redd should have Mo William's contract, Mo Williams should have Dan Gadzuric's contract and Dan Gadzuric should have Michael Ruffin's contract.

[Nowak008]

I'd view Mo to be on the same level as Barbosa, Gordon and Terry.

This is where imo you underrate Mo.


Barbosa:
15.6/2.6/2.8 46%

Gordon:
18.6/3/3 43%

Terry:
15.5/3.2/2.5 46%

Mo:
17.2/6.3/3.5 48%

Mo is just a superior offensive player then those guys. He is a better scorer, passer, play maker.

Now in some cases, one could argue Mo is more "talented" than some of these guys. But for me, I place a higher value on what guys like Lee and Maxiell provide at PF than what Mo provides as a shooter. Or the value of guys like Outlaw and Nocioni on the wing.

I thought that you put a high value on PG play. Mo arguably would be the best back up PG in the league. You your self said Mo was a 6th man of the year candidate.

He's being paid starter's money and for most of the teams in the league they aren't in a position where they can pay that much for a backup.

On most teams Mo would be starting anyways. The other teams that wouldn't probably can afford to pay a bench player a lot because they are probably a contender.

[europa]

I do place a high value on PG play and I do believe Mo would be a fine sixth man. But not at nearly $9M a year. If he was making about $6M a year (or less given how that's what most sixth men are being paid) then the issue would be clearly reduced. It's certainly a problem on a small-market team like the Bucks and it's one of the reasons why their salary structure is so completely messed up.

I don't think Mo would be a starter on many teams. That's the point myself, Press and GAD have been talking about. He needs a precise fit to be the starting PG and I don't think there are many teams that would want to start a 6 foot SG who is a poor defender.

[emunney]

Barbosa plays most of his minutes off the ball, plays 7 mpg less than Mo, and can effectively defend two positions. He is better than Mo.

Gordon may be the most similar player to Mo in the league, but he's a streakier shooter. He's also the best scorer on his team, and as such he gets no respite in terms of defensive pressure. The other team's best perimeter defender defends Gordon; when playing the Bucks he defends Redd. Tough to estimate the statistical impact that could have, but it is a difference. I'd say they're a wash.

I think you're right on Terry, but I'd have taken Terry any of the previous three years.

[emunney]

At any rate, I definitely wouldn't say it's off base to say that Mo is on the same level as those guys. There isn't a huge difference between them regardless of who you prefer.

[Nowak008]

Barbosa plays most of his minutes off the ball, plays 7 mpg less than Mo, and can effectively defend two positions. He is better than Mo.

Barbosa also plays in a very fast pace and the Bucks played a very slow pace. Barbosa also plays on an elite team, and most of his points are via play making from other players. Mo plays on a terrible team and had one of the worst coaches in Bucks history. Barbosa can't create offense for others and playmaking for himself is limited outside of on the break.

Gordon may be the most similar player to Mo in the league, but he's a streakier shooter. He's also the best scorer on his team, and as such he gets no respite in terms of defensive pressure. The other team's best perimeter defender defends Gordon; when playing the Bucks he defends Redd. Tough to estimate the statistical impact that could have, but it is a difference. I'd say they're a wash.

His FG% is 5 points lower then Mo's. I don't know where to look at eff, but I would guess and say Mo is bit better. Also when Mo had to carry the team offensively when Redd was out Mo put up HUGE numbers. I think Mo can carry a team offensively better then Gordon can. The thing that Mo has over Gordon is his ability to create for others.

[Nowak008]

I don't think Mo would be a starter on many teams. That's the point myself, Press and GAD have been talking about. He needs a precise fit to be the starting PG and I don't think there are many teams that would want to start a 6 foot SG who is a poor defender.

You are going to have to name drop better then that.

I watched GAD lose 10 dollars in poker when his opponent flipped over his cards on accident, GAD still called a bet on the river with a losing hand even though he KNEW what the guy had.

and PP will probably change his mind next week to my side.

[paulpressey25]

You know....I really think we can build around Mo.....playing next to Sessions next year will help him. And his scoring is elite.

[NeedsMoreCheese]

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You are going to have to name drop better then that.

I watched GAD lose 10 dollars in poker when his opponent flipped over his cards on accident, GAD still called a bet on the river with a losing hand even though he KNEW what the guy had.

and PP will probably change his mind next week to my side.

Poor GAD. I can just picture the whole thing too, his reaction must have been awesome. Was it really animated with all the hand movements included like usual?

[REDDzone]

You know....I really think we can build around Mo.....playing next to Sessions next year will help him. And his scoring is elite.

Plus he is our best defender.

[paulpressey25]

-=
Plus he is our best defender.

And a good locker room guy as well......

[redred9]

im sure someone has said it before, but Mo's problem is not his game. Its his attitude (admittedly freezing teamates out in the 4th) and low bball IQ (has no idea who to get the ball to and when) which make him unfit to be the primary playmaker for the Bucks.

On Cleveland, he'd probably look great. Maybe we should explore a deal with them. Varajeo & Pavlovic? is probably asking too much.

[GrandAdmiralDan]

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You are going to have to name drop better then that.

I watched GAD lose 10 dollars in poker when his opponent flipped over his cards on accident, GAD still called a bet on the river with a losing hand even though he KNEW what the guy had.

and PP will probably change his mind next week to my side.

Way to sell me out jackass

If (make that "when") I witness you do something on that level of stupidity, I will be nice enough not to spread that around, particularly not on a public message board

You've just been itching to bring this up it seems, since you weren't even able to hold it in until at least an OT thread.

Now you force me to explain what happened:

First, saying I lost $10 I guess is technically accurate I think is a bit misleading. I theoretically should have won the $10 pot, but only $3.50 were my chips.


I was totally thrown off by being in a hand with someone who inexplicably flips there hand over even though there was no reason for him to do so and no reason for him to have thought the hand was over. I've never had that happen before. It totally threw me off and had me not thinking completely straight.

Also, I was in the process of telling a story that was causing me to be distracted and lose focus, and also on my mind was the phone call I had received earlier in the evening, telling me that Scott Skiles to the Bucks was a done deal, but I couldn't share that with anyone.

On top of everything else, I misread the board and thought I had the same 2-pair hand as him on the river, when in fact his kicker played.

The point is my focus wasn't there.
But I did make without a doubt the stupidest poker blunder I have ever seen or heard about. I certainly baled out that other guy though, because if not for my own distracted stupidity, he would have caught major flak for flipping his hand over like that for no logical reason.

[Sigra]

Jason Terry? The guy who just stoped Paul in playoffs? You know MVP candidate Paul who was raping Jason Kidd in first 2 games?

Terry is AT LEAST solid defender while Mo is worst in NBA. It is amazing how much people ignore Mo's defense. Because of Mo's defense there are at least 10 bench players better than him.

[midranger]

Sigra, here's what you do. Go to yahoo.com, click on "sports," click on players, click on Milwaukee Bucks, click on Mo Williams, click on game logs, scan down and find the first NOH game.

Mo played solid D on Chris Paul once too.

Anyway, there are two worse defending PGs on this roster than Mo.

[Bucks_Revenge]

Sigra, here's what you do. Go to yahoo.com, click on "sports," click on players, click on Milwaukee Bucks, click on Mo Williams, click on game logs, scan down and find the first NOH game.

Mo played solid D on Chris Paul once too.

Anyway, there are two worse defending PGs on this roster than Mo.

Let's not go there...

[midranger]

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Let's not go there...

The truth is too much for you?