Giannis - 2X MVP - FMVP - DPOY - Offseason discussion

[HKPackFan]

So NBA.com says game 60 Giannis is at 29.7 (third place), Embiid 58 games at 29.8 (second place). Lebron 54 games 30.0 (first place).

Man this is a tight race.

Giannis got 25pts in 30 minutes in a blowout tonight (on 12 shots).
Lebron got 38pts in 41 minutes vs the Cavs last night. (on 29 shots).
Embiid sat out a W vs the Heat last night. (second of a b2b). He had 21pts on 20 shots in 37 minutes LOSING to the raptors sunday.


Giannis could absolutely win the scoring title, but he has two things against him. #1 he takes less shots. #2 he plays less minutes vs the other two guys. (he often looks for the right play and not just his shot, he loves getting his teammates involved but that's part of point #1).

Giannis is averaging 32.8 minutes this season on 18.5 shots a game. (making 55%)
Embiid is averaging 33.4 minutes this season on 19.3 shots a game. (making 48.7%)
Lebron is averaging 37.1 minutes this season on 21.7 shots a game. (making 52.3%).


Embiid and Giannis are so close it could go either way. Lebron has a CLEAR advantage. he has 4+ minutes extra a game and 3 extra shots a game with similar make % as Giannis.

We also know Lebron's team is not a contender and Lebron really only has one thing to play for right now. The scoring title (oh and a quick playoff exit). So he has free will to jack up 30 shots a game to make sure he wins the title. We know Lebron is capable of gunning for the title and just chucking it all day long, no one will question him and the media will be foaming at the mouth to see him win the scoring title at his age.


Giannis still has a chance if he just goes off especially with some good teams coming up. He'd probably play the full game and could easily get 30+ over the next several games. Don't know if it's enough though, I still think Giannis loves to make the right play and not go Kobe. Giannis loves getting his buckets in the flow of the game and he's working on incorporating all his teammates. I'd love for him to get the title just getting it in the flow of the game but I do think it lowers his chances.


(edit first used ESPN numbers then switched to NBA.com)

[HKPackFan]

https://www.skysports.com/nba/news/36226/12572558/joel-embiid-lebron-james-giannis-antetokounmpo-locked-in-historic-battle-for-nba-scoring-title

Entering Tuesday, the NBA finds itself on pace for the closest three-man scoring race in league history. LeBron James of the Los Angeles Lakers is atop the list averaging 29.96 points (which would round up to 30.0), Joel Embiid of the Philadelphia 76ers is second at 29.83, and Giannis Antetokounmpo of the Milwaukee Bucks is third at 29.80.

This is the closest race in history and KD is disqualified for not enough games but he would be in 4th at 29.6 That's wild!

[CharityStripe34]

I doubt Gianni is going for it. While I'm sure he's aware, if he had to pick and individual honor then it would be MVP. He gets his 30 more from the flow of the game and the FT line. If the Bucks finish 9-1 or 8-2 and end up #2 in the East with Freak having his usual brilliance, he may well potentially get MVP or maybe DPOY, though it's an outside shot.

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[sidney lanier]

As was astutely observed by somebody here a couple of days ago, LBJ will push for the scoring title to salvage a positive narrative from his disastrous season. Giannis or Embiid could go for it, I guess, but they have more important goals in sight.

To underscore HKPackFan's point about the minutes played differential, here's the scoring race expressed per 48 minutes instead of per game:

1. Giannis, 43.4
2. Embiid, 42.8
3. Ja Morant, 39.8
4 (tie). LBJ and Trae Young, 38.8

Incidentally, if I were king of the world the scoring title would go to the player who scores the most points, regardless of games or minutes played, like the HR or RBI title in baseball. This year that's DeRozan so far.

[CharityStripe34]

There is a lane for Freak to possibly snatch the MVP from Embiid. Especially if the Sixers start using chicanery to bench Embiid/Harden down the stretch, and the Bucks end up #2. The narrative battle is firmly against him, though.

[skbucks1985]

If the Bucks had won 6 additional games and were comfortably atop the East I think Giannis would be in a stronger position for MVP, even with the exact same numbers, than he is now. Philly, Denver and Milwaukee have similar records and even though Giannis, Middleton and Holiday haven't played a ton of games together he hasn't had the extended absences from star players like Embiid has had with Simmons not playing or Jokic has had with Murray missing the entire season and Porter missing almost the entire season.

[emunney]

I think Giannis would have to win the scoring title and we'd have to take the #1 seed from Miami for him to win MVP.

Miami has a 3.5 game lead in conference record (tied head to head and this is the next operative tiebreaker) so they functionally have a 3 game lead in the standings with 10 to go.

[CharityStripe34]

As we saw last night, I don't think he's going for the scoring title. He should get strong consideration if they finish strong and end up #2, but the narrative/voter fatigue stuff is weighing against him.

What would really help his case is if he beats the Sixers, Nets and Celtics in this final stretch with big games, a la 35-14-8 or numbers along those lines. The games against Memphis and Dallas would also be nice feathers in his cap, but against your direct Conference rivals it would mean more. LOL @ the Bucks/Sixers game this coming Tuesday not being on TNT (Lakers/Mavericks ).

[drdrG]

There is a lane for Freak to possibly snatch the MVP from Embiid. Especially if the Sixers start using chicanery to bench Embiid/Harden down the stretch, and the Bucks end up #2. The narrative battle is firmly against him, though.

The narrative should change significantly if the sixers sit Embiid out to get to #4 while the Bucks take #2 on the back of Giannis. Jokic and the Nuggets might fall to the play-in which fairly or not might disqualify him from MVP in some voters' eyes

[sidney lanier]

What would be even more entertaining, if not more disqualifying, is if Embiid leads the scoring title race by a fraction and sits out the last game or two to avoid losing it with an off game.

Kind of a reverse Ted Williams. True, the Splendid Splinter had his head frozen, which is not the best character reference, but what he did at the end of the 1941 season shows he didn't go in for, um, skull-duggery.

Memorably, as the 1941 season came to a close, Williams was hitting .3996 after the penultimate day of the regular season, good enough if he didn’t play in a season-ending double-header against the Philadelphia Athletics to be recognized as a .400 hitter.

Given the option to sit out by his manager, Joe Cronin, Williams, who turned 23 on Aug. 30, instead chose to play and hit 6-for-8 in the two games and finished at his now famous .406, becoming the last batter to reach the milestone .400 mark.

“If there’s ever a ballplayer who deserved to hit .400, it’s Ted,” Cronin said after the double header. “He’s given up plenty of chances to bunt and protect his average in recent weeks. He wouldn’t think of getting out of the lineup to keep his average intact.”

https://baseballhall.org/discover-more/stories/baseball-history/teds-williams-pursuit-of-400

[MickeyDavis]

LeBron has played 40, 35, 44, 37 and 40 minutes the past 5 games. He wants the scoring title big time. His team sucks, no other serious scoring options on his team. He's supposedly a GTD tonight. We'll see if he plays against a good team. He's .2 ahead of Embiid and .3 ahead of Giannis. If he thinks he has it wrapped up with a couple games to go he'll sit to preserve the lead. Meanwhile Giannis will likely play some limited minute games the last week if we a seed locked up.

[FrieAaron]

Yep, Lebron is all about the scoring title now and Giannis couldn't care less going by last night.

[WeekapaugGroove]

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Lakers host. Dumb take. Giannis turned into **** Godzilla last finals.

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[sidney lanier]

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Lakers host. Dumb take. Giannis turned into **** Godzilla last finals.

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What a maroon.

[blazza18]

There is a lane for Freak to possibly snatch the MVP from Embiid. Especially if the Sixers start using chicanery to bench Embiid/Harden down the stretch, and the Bucks end up #2. The narrative battle is firmly against him, though.

Yea, unfortunately when things are so tight narrative matters and I just don't think Giannis has that this year. I don't even really know what Embiid's case is there either but I also think us starting slow and mostly being pretty eh this season will cost Giannis 1st place votes.

[CharityStripe34]

There is a lane for Freak to possibly snatch the MVP from Embiid. Especially if the Sixers start using chicanery to bench Embiid/Harden down the stretch, and the Bucks end up #2. The narrative battle is firmly against him, though.

Yea, unfortunately when things are so tight narrative matters and I just don't think Giannis has that this year. I don't even really know what Embiid's case is there either but I also think us starting slow and mostly being pretty eh this season will cost Giannis 1st place votes.

Don't look now but Bucks are only 1.5 games out of first. The 1 seed, if attained, may help his case. Especially with signature wins against the likes of Brooklyn, Philly and Boston.

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[emunney]

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Lakers host. Dumb take. Giannis turned into **** Godzilla last finals.

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LeBron scored 23 a game and lost in the first round to the same team Giannis scored 35/game on in the Finals.

[emunney]

There is a lane for Freak to possibly snatch the MVP from Embiid. Especially if the Sixers start using chicanery to bench Embiid/Harden down the stretch, and the Bucks end up #2. The narrative battle is firmly against him, though.

Yea, unfortunately when things are so tight narrative matters and I just don't think Giannis has that this year. I don't even really know what Embiid's case is there either but I also think us starting slow and mostly being pretty eh this season will cost Giannis 1st place votes.

This is all snatched back though if Giannis wins the scoring title and the Bucks are the 1 seed. One or the other and the vote is closer but probably Jokic.

[CharityStripe34]

If the Bucks end up 2nd or 1st and Gianni finishes with a 30-12-6 season and loses the MVP to Jokic that's a bit asinine. Especially since the Nuggets are 6th and sort of close to play-in status. And I love Jokic, he's one of my favorites. But if the shoe were on the other foot and Gianni was putting up gigantic numbers and the Bucks were 6th-7th no one would even mention his name as a candidate, save for maaaybe guys like Simmons or Zach Lowe.

Obviously still plenty of season left to see how Gianni & the Bucks do this home stretch as well as Embiid and Jokic. Just imagine Gianni leads the Bucks to a sneakily solid #2 seed (assuming Miami holds on), finishes with 30-12-6 on great efficiency and basically just behind Jokic in all the advanced geek metrics, gets awarded his second DPOY trophy and finishes somehow third for MVP.

[HKPackFan]

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Lakers host. Dumb take. Giannis turned into **** Godzilla last finals.

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What a maroon.

Goal posts always moving with these hot takes....


He can't win a championship, he can only do it in the regular season, he's not a closer.

No no no... He did it once, but maybe it was a fluke! Before I believe, he would need to prove it wasn't a fluke.


Giannis has it all and has done it all. He does not need to prove anything to anyone. These guys are just mouth breathers with meaningless takes.