Sessions Update:Ramon signs T-Wolves OS (page 310 update)

LUKE23 · Post #1021 » by **LUKE23** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:46 pm

I am not a big David Lee fan at all. I find it amusing that you say the reason he averaged so many rebounds was because of the system he was in, yet the same system would no doubt severally hurt a players defensive production.

I never said it would hurt his defensive production (there is no way he'd be worse than 2007-08), I'm just saying he was awful last year (and has been bad for his career).

trwi7 · Post #1022 » by **trwi7** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:46 pm

adamcz wrote:
paulpressey25 wrote:
europa wrote:Me too. I could rationalize Lee if the deal 3/$21M range. But I doubt it will be that low and as we've been discussing, there's a lot else that needs to be put into the deal just to get Lee.

The rocket science behind a S&T is tough here. But I could live with swapping Gadz for Eddy Curry if that was part of the calculus. That would help the Knicks since Curry's contract is $2-3mm more than Gadz. But I think with Curry we'd at least get a guy who could contribute quite a bit on a second unit.

Knicks are never going to give up that much cap space for 2010 just to sign Sessions. Curry is one of their big expiring deals.

Curry's deal is the same length as Gadz'. Which is why PP25 has lost it.

blueedwards · Post #1023 » by **blueedwards** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:47 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:
LUKE23 wrote:What do Sessions and Lee's salaries become if they are both S/T'ed? I don't really know how BYC works.

GAD went through this last week, but it was pretty complicated. The challenge is that you assume Lee would get something in the $8-9mm range and Sessions in the $6mm range. If those are the numbers, then you have to bring a bunch of other players into this to make the numbers work. One of GAD's examples even had Eddy Curry in it.

I dont see the point taking Curry besides Lee. Unless there taking Gadz off our hands which I doubt. We would have $28.7M tide up in center depth chart of Bogut,Curry,Gadz,Elson. I didnt even include KT. I figured KT and Bowens be part of the deal. They could take Gadz though in a deal for Curry cause his salary is less then Curry.

Newz · Post #1024 » by **Newz** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:47 pm

LUKE23 wrote:
I am not a big David Lee fan at all. I find it amusing that you say the reason he averaged so many rebounds was because of the system he was in, yet the same system would no doubt severally hurt a players defensive production.

I never said it would hurt his defensive production (there is no way he'd be worse than 2007-08), I'm just saying he was awful last year (and has been bad for his career).

I don't think David Lee is a good defender, in fact I think he is below average.

But bottom 5 in the league? Come on.

BuckFan25226 · Post #1025 » by **BuckFan25226** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:48 pm

LUKE23 wrote:
Lee is a nice compliment to Bogut, he's a better offensive player, and a better rebounder

They were basically even rebounders last year even though Lee played in a far better system for rebounding numbers. Offensively, I'd say on the Bucks they would put up similar PPG numbers. And Lee is a horrific defender. Bottom 5 in the league.

I am not doubting he's a bad defender. But he's a better overall rebounder then Bogut, as well as a better scorer. Not by much in those catagories, but he's better.

Bogut - 8.7 RPG in 32.3mpg career.

Lee - 9 RPG in 28 mpg career.

europa · Post #1026 » by **europa** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:48 pm

I could live with Lee if Hammond was able to dump Gadz's contract. I still worry that Lee will be overpaid. I don't like giving him more than $7M a year and it's a very safe bet that he'll be getting at least $8M to be convinced to play for the Bucks.

ETA - not to mention I don't see any way the Knicks take Gadz's contract.

LUKE23 · Post #1027 » by **LUKE23** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:52 pm

Last year Bogut and Lee had basically the same rebounding rate. Defensively, Lee allowed a 21+ PER at PF. I dont' know where rankings are, but that is monumentally horrendous.

blueedwards · Post #1028 » by **blueedwards** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:53 pm

europa wrote:I could live with Lee if Hammond was able to dump Gadz's contract. I still worry that Lee will be overpaid. I don't like giving him more than $7M a year and it's a very safe bet that he'll be getting at least $8M to be convinced to play for the Bucks.

ETA - not to mention I don't see any way the Knicks take Gadz's contract.

At first I was thinking same thing. No way they take Gadz. But Gadz is same length in years as Curry. But less money. So Maybe Sessions,Bowens and Gadz in the deal for Lee and Curry.

Newz · Post #1029 » by **Newz** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:54 pm

LUKE23 wrote:Last year Bogut and Lee had basically the same rebounding rate. Defensively, Lee allowed a 21+ PER at PF. I dont' know where rankings are, but that is monumentally horrendous.

I agree.

But just like you have to factor in the system he played in to figure out why such a mediocre offensive player scored as many points as he did and why he was third in the league in rebounding...

You also have to take that system into account when it comes to defense... And you also have to factor in how good of a rebounder he is into his defensive ability as well. His defensive rebounding is huge as to not allow second chance opportunities for the other team.

Once again, I'm not even trying to argue he is an average defender, I just think saying he is the bottom 5 in the entire NBA is kind of a joke, personally.

LUKE23 · Post #1030 » by **LUKE23** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:58 pm

Knicks fans think it's Duhon for Sessions. :lol:

europa · Post #1031 » by **europa** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:59 pm

blueedwards wrote:
europa wrote:I could live with Lee if Hammond was able to dump Gadz's contract. I still worry that Lee will be overpaid. I don't like giving him more than $7M a year and it's a very safe bet that he'll be getting at least $8M to be convinced to play for the Bucks.

ETA - not to mention I don't see any way the Knicks take Gadz's contract.
At first I was thinking same thing. No way they take Gadz. But Gadz is same length in years as Curry. But less money. So Maybe Sessions,Bowens and Gadz in the deal for Lee and Curry.

Bowen can't be traded that way. Secondly, if Hammond takes back a worse contract for Gadz in a deal that also gives up his best PG, he's clearly lost his marbles.

Hammond is in complete control of this situation. If anyone is going to bend over in a S&T, it has to be the other team - not the Bucks. No reason for Hammond to take a bad contract when he can just dare the other team to sign Sessions to an offer sheet and take the gamble he won't match it.

europa · Post #1032 » by **europa** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:00 pm

LUKE23 wrote:Knicks fans think it's Duhon for Sessions.

I've been tracking their board with all the Sessions stuff. It's impossible to even post there. Many of them appear to have zero concept of reality.

Post #1033 » by **ReasonablySober** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:01 pm

LUKE23 wrote:Knicks fans think it's Duhon for Sessions.

Wouldn't surprise me.

LUKE23 · Post #1034 » by **LUKE23** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:02 pm

Wouldn't surprise me

It would surprise me, because Hammond would be castrated if he did that, and I think he knows that.

paul · Post #1035 » by **paul** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:04 pm

europa wrote:I could live with Lee if Hammond was able to dump Gadz's contract. I still worry that Lee will be overpaid. I don't like giving him more than $7M a year and it's a very safe bet that he'll be getting at least $8M to be convinced to play for the Bucks.

ETA - not to mention I don't see any way the Knicks take Gadz's contract.

Unless of course both parties were able to work out a mutually beneficial situation - such as both players signing for roughly MLE money next season with Sessions ($5.8m) deal either decreasing or remaining flat and Lee's deal (say $6.6m first year) having maximum increases for 5 years. I'm sure someone can help me with the math here, but I believe maximum increases on someone else's FA is around 8.5% per meaning we could still give Lee a deal of around 5/$39m by doing that and really wouldn't have to add too much at all to get it done, or am I wrong on that?

trwi7 · Post #1036 » by **trwi7** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:04 pm

I mentioned this a few times in the past few weeks when the rumors of Sessions to New York first started. They kept thinking a S&T of Duhon for Sessions would be great because they get their young PG and we get a guy Skiles loves.

It's really amazing how stupid they are. We'd be better off just letting him leave than paying Duhon $6 million to suck.

Post #1037 » by **paulpressey25** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:06 pm

trwi7 wrote:Curry's deal is the same length as Gadz'. Which is why PP25 has lost it.

I agree I've lost it. But I'm intrigued by what Curry could do as a low post scorer/second unit center assuming he's healthy. We know we are getting absolutely zero from Gadz the next two years. Let's say we could dump Bell's contract in this thing also. Now we're neutral as to cost.

LUKE23 · Post #1038 » by **LUKE23** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:06 pm

trwi7 wrote:I mentioned this a few times in the past few weeks when the rumors of Sessions to New York first started. They kept thinking a S&T of Duhon for Sessions would be great because they get their young PG and we get a guy Skiles loves.

It's really amazing how stupid they are. We'd be better off just letting him leave than paying Duhon $6 million to suck.

It would have to be something more to make it work anyway (if Sessions deal is MLE, because of BYC), but yeah, if they were going to trade Sessions for Duhon/filler they'd be better off letting him walk. I don't think Hammond is that stupid though.

europa · Post #1039 » by **europa** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:06 pm

trwi7 wrote:
It's really amazing how stupid they are. We'd be better off just letting him leave than paying Duhon $6 million to suck.

Yup. The Bucks already have the veteran PG who isn't very good but Skiles really likes him in Ridnour. So trading Sessions for another PG like that is pointless. I'm sure Hammond is smart enough to realize that. I'd rather have a second-round pick than Chris Duhon.

paul · Post #1040 » by **paul** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:06 pm

DrugBust wrote:
LUKE23 wrote:Knicks fans think it's Duhon for Sessions.

Wouldn't surprise me.

Would surprise me unless they already have a Ridnour trade worked out. Everyone keeps saying how much Skiles loves Duhon whilst completely ignoring the fact that he also loves Ridnour who he's already got and he'd be 100% aware that if he gets Duhon he has to move Ridnour.

Not all, but most Knicks fans have been completely delusional on what Milwaukee would want in a S&T the past few weeks on that board.