Ford Mock 6.0 #2 Embiid

[WeekapaugGroove]

If it's Exum at 2 this boards going to be a fun place the first time wiggins or Parker kill it in summer league.

I really don't know enough about Exum to have and opinion either way.

Sent from my SM-N900V using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Baddy Chuck]

I'll play bad cop here

You've been playing the "bad cop" since the beginning of the Parker vs. Wiggins debate. Don't front like you've been the dialectic one since you've never criticize Wiggins the way you did Jabari here, despite the fact that you can find plenty of numbers to make him, or any other college player look bad. It's just that Jabari's flaws have to be highlighted because he can't jump as high as Wiggins can.

I never acted like I didn't have a pony in this race, I've made it abundantly clear who my favorite between the two is. I made that post for my reasoning behind not liking Parker as much. It isn't because Parker can't jump as high, it isn't because of a gif or video, it isn't because of measurements etc etc no matter how many times you want to allude to it. I know Wiggins has his limitations, I'm just pointing out that I don't think Parker is this no flaw offensive player who dominated the college ranks. I think he had some pretty obvious weaknesses as the season went on. I haven't been one at all pointing out how Parker couldn't jump over a ruler, I've stayed out of that fight almost completely. I think his up down athleticism is fine. Hell, I think his defense will be fine as well. I just don't believe his offense was at some all-world level that is being portrayed. I don't think he's stepping onto the floor tomorrow and being Paul Pierce. I think he has a long ways to go and will have hiccups along the way too, as well as the chance that he never sniffs becoming that good of a player.

You want my opinions on Wiggins flaws?

I know he doesn't have the tightest handle. I know his jumper isn't top notch. I know he does disappear at times.

I understand his handle isn't the best. I think there are many players that have overcome that though, especially with the other gifts he has. Corey Maggette made a living with it. DeRozan is making a living with it. I think he has the speed and quickness on that first step to help him overcome his handles. I could see him being sloppy with the ball, and I never really see him being a guy with great vision off the bounce either, but when it comes down to scoring the ball and getting to the free throw line, I think his handle is more than adequate to get him to the spots he'll need to get to in the NBA.

I understand you don't want your star player disappearing in games, I think it's something he will have to get over. I think in college he fell into trying to play in the system rather then being "the" guy and honestly, I think he'll have to adjust to that in the NBA as well, it won't be a seamless transition. I think with maturity and coaching this could be almost done away with completely. I don't know of any player, besides maybe Andrew Bynum, that really pissed away talent and just became this passive third party. I've said it before, Marvin Williams didn't become Marvin Williams because he didn't have the right mindset, he became Marvin Williams because his skills didn't translate like people hoped. Paul George is a guy who definitely disappears from game to game, especially with the level he's shown he can play at, but overall I think you can look past it because of what he has shown throughout the season. That's honestly how I'd compare Wiggins' passiveness going forward. I don't think he's going to have the killer instinct every night, but I also think that with that said he isn't going to be a guy like Melo who will give you an 8-28 shooting night with 0 assists and nothing else. In the right system, with the right coaches, and the right players I think even when he does have off nights he could be very productive in other areas (off the ball movement, spot up shooting and defense).

To be honest, my biggest fear with him is his jumper. I think he has a solid jumper, not great, but I also know he falls in love with it. He hasn't shown good ability off the bounce with the jumper and in college he shot that shot quite a bit. He'll have to tone that down a lot going forward. His three point shot I think will be fine, especially off the ball, but there's a big difference between the consistency he has now and the consistency he'll need to have for it to be a major threat. Around that 35% would be great, farther he starts dipping below that line and the more worried I'd become. Like other areas, I think that will start off a little slower but ultimately develop. I'm not worried about who is the better player next season though, or who has the best shot at making the most all star games, I want the guy who can be the best player 5-6-7+ years from now and I think Wiggins has the ability to be that player only behind Embiid.

[Matches Malone]

If it's Exum at 2 this boards going to be a fun place the first time wiggins or Parker kill it in summer league.

I really don't know enough about Exum to have and opinion either way.

Sent from my SM-N900V using RealGM Forums mobile app

At this point, I really don't see them looking at Exum seriously. Probably check him out just to check him off the list but right now I gotta believe it's down to the 3 main prospects for us.

[breakchains]

To make things worse for the Embiid fans, this OKC/SAS series probably isn't helping things. Showing the import of dominant big men. Both in terms of Duncan, obviously, still going strong and probably the odds on favorite for his 5th ring, and in the impact Ibaka clearly has on a team with two of the most talented perimeter players you will ever see.

[machu46]

If it's Exum at 2 this boards going to be a fun place the first time wiggins or Parker kill it in summer league.

I really don't know enough about Exum to have and opinion either way.

Sent from my SM-N900V using RealGM Forums mobile app

At this point, I really don't see them looking at Exum seriously. Probably check him out just to check him off the list but right now I gotta believe it's down to the 3 main prospects for us.

I still wouldn't be surprised if he's one of the 3 main prospects in Hambone's eyes.

[Wooderson]

Parker DRtg 99.3
Wiggins DRtg 102.8
Embiid DRtg 90.9

Individual DRtg really isn't a great stat, especially when comparing a wing defender like Wiggins to Parker who was playing near the rim (often times at the 5). The stat gives value to getting defensive rebounds so the frontcourt player has built in advantage. It doesn't really capture the value of perimeter defenders. Take a look at Dekker vs. Gasser for example. Dekker had a 3.6 point edge in DRtg a lot of which had to do with him playing the 4 spot - but I think Gasser was pretty clearly the better defender.

[PkrsBcksGphsMqt]

Skimmed the Cavs board and I'm shocked at how many of them don't want Embiid. I guess maybe the prospect of blowing the #1 pick two years in a row could steer them away from Embiid?

[Max Green]

Weird that some all of a sudden have problem with gifs being posted. They're being posted for fun. I'd have no problem if someone else was posting some spectacular plays that Exum, Embiid or Wiggins made. Hell, I don't remember this much bitching when Embiid's "dream shake" gif was being posted ad nauseam.

[breakchains]

Skimmed the Cavs board and I'm shocked at how many of them don't want Embiid. I guess maybe the prospect of blowing the #1 pick two years in a row could steer them away from Embiid?

Their new GM David Griffin is well-respected by most basketball people, and the Embiid pick just makes too much sense. If your franchise player is a PG, I think it is basically ideal for your other franchise player to be a C, if you have the luxury of choosing. You can find good wings - you can't find game-changing 2-way centers. Plus, if they are really serious about trying to woo Lebron (which I think is a stupid way to operate, but maybe they will), it makes even more sense to take the C over a Parker or Wiggins.

Basically, if Embiid is healthy, he is a Cav (if they keep the pick). We need to move on to determining who our top prospect is of the remaining three.

[randy84]

Parker DRtg 99.3
Wiggins DRtg 102.8
Embiid DRtg 90.9

Individual DRtg really isn't a great stat, especially when comparing a wing defender like Wiggins to Parker who was playing near the rim (often times at the 5). The stat gives value to getting defensive rebounds so the frontcourt player has built in advantage. It doesn't really capture the value of perimeter defenders. Take a look at Dekker vs. Gasser for example. Dekker had a 3.6 point edge in DRtg a lot of which had to do with him playing the 4 spot - but I think Gasser was pretty clearly the better defender.

I agree. I don't think it is a great stats. But I think it shows that Parker can be, at worse, an average defender.

[randy84]

Skimmed the Cavs board and I'm shocked at how many of them don't want Embiid. I guess maybe the prospect of blowing the #1 pick two years in a row could steer them away from Embiid?

Their new GM David Griffin is well-respected by most basketball people, and the Embiid pick just makes too much sense. If your franchise player is a PG, I think it is basically ideal for your other franchise player to be a C, if you have the luxury of choosing. You can find good wings - you can't find game-changing 2-way centers. Plus, if they are really serious about trying to woo Lebron (which I think is a stupid way to operate, but maybe they will), it makes even more sense to take the C over a Parker or Wiggins.

Basically, if Embiid is healthy, he is a Cav (if they keep the pick). We need to move on to determining who our top prospect is of the remaining three.

Problem is that you won't have your franchise PG if you don't start making the playoffs. Do they have time for Embiid to develop?

[Zeezprah]

To make things worse for the Embiid fans, this OKC/SAS series probably isn't helping things. Showing the import of dominant big men. Both in terms of Duncan, obviously, still going strong and probably the odds on favorite for his 5th ring, and in the impact Ibaka clearly has on a team with two of the most talented perimeter players you will ever see.

next year's big men class is loaded if we miss out on embiid.

i realize they may not be quite on par with embiid, but there are some very good big men.

[Max Green]

Logically it makes all the sense in the world for the Cavs to take Embiid. But Dan Gilbert is an illogical man when it comes to Basketball, I could absolutely see him thinking instead of hoping Lebron comes back, why not draft the next Lebron (Wiggins). He's very Kohl esq. I can see him overruling his GM.

[breakchains]

Skimmed the Cavs board and I'm shocked at how many of them don't want Embiid. I guess maybe the prospect of blowing the #1 pick two years in a row could steer them away from Embiid?

Their new GM David Griffin is well-respected by most basketball people, and the Embiid pick just makes too much sense. If your franchise player is a PG, I think it is basically ideal for your other franchise player to be a C, if you have the luxury of choosing. You can find good wings - you can't find game-changing 2-way centers. Plus, if they are really serious about trying to woo Lebron (which I think is a stupid way to operate, but maybe they will), it makes even more sense to take the C over a Parker or Wiggins.

Basically, if Embiid is healthy, he is a Cav (if they keep the pick). We need to move on to determining who our top prospect is of the remaining three.

Problem is that you won't have your franchise PG if you don't start making the playoffs. Do they have time for Embiid to develop?

That's literally our only hope, and that's why if they take anyone not named Embiid at #1 it will be Parker and not Wiggins.

But I think Embiid is enough of a game changer from day 1, along with improvement by Kyrie, that they will make the playoffs in a weak eastern conference. I think that Kyrie would probably see the ridiculous potential the duo of him and Embiid would possess, almost regardless of what happens. And in any event, in the "franchise player hierarchy," I would put Embiid above Kyrie, anyway.

[Wooderson]

Parker DRtg 99.3
Wiggins DRtg 102.8
Embiid DRtg 90.9

Individual DRtg really isn't a great stat, especially when comparing a wing defender like Wiggins to Parker who was playing near the rim (often times at the 5). The stat gives value to getting defensive rebounds so the frontcourt player has built in advantage. It doesn't really capture the value of perimeter defenders. Take a look at Dekker vs. Gasser for example. Dekker had a 3.6 point edge in DRtg a lot of which had to do with him playing the 4 spot - but I think Gasser was pretty clearly the better defender.

I agree. I don't think it is a great stats. But I think it shows that Parker can be, at worse, an average defender.

I guess I'll disagree. He wasn't a good defender last year and at times was so bad they couldn't even hide him. I'm not doubting that he could become an average or better defender, but it's going to take huge improvement.

[MrPerfect1]

Honestly, I think CLE is best served taking Wiggins:

-With Kyrie being ball dominant, I want him with someone who does not require the ball in his hands and is devastating in Transition

-With Kyrie being weak defensively, I want either a dominant Lane Protector or Perimeter Defender

-Kyrie is a risk to leave if they suck again this year. I think Wiggins has the bigger impact in Year 1 and is has less injury risk

[The Wet Whistle]

Behold my microsoft paint skillz!!

This is the story of the worst NBA prospect: JaBarry Packer!






*Guess you have to open the first one to see the entire image...enjoy*

[breakchains]

Honestly, I think CLE is best served taking Wiggins:

-With Kyrie being ball dominant, I want him with someone who does not require the ball in his hands and is devastating in Transition

-With Kyrie being weak defensively, I want either a dominant Lane Protector or Perimeter Defender

-Kyrie is a risk to leave if they suck again this year. I think Wiggins has the bigger impact in Year 1 and is has less injury risk

If you're concerned about your PG's defense, the rim-protecting 7'1 center is far more impactful than a lock-down wing defender. Basically disagree with your other two points too (bigger year 1 impact and not requiring the ball in hands with respect to Embiid).

[Chapter29]

Btw...I am becoming a Jabari defender in this thread. I suppose it should be worth pointing out my top 2 in order (as of now) are:

1. Wiggins
2. Parker

I just feel like defending him against those that act like he isn't worthy of discussion towards the top.

At least you can defend.

[MrPerfect1]

Honestly, I think CLE is best served taking Wiggins:

-With Kyrie being ball dominant, I want him with someone who does not require the ball in his hands and is devastating in Transition

-With Kyrie being weak defensively, I want either a dominant Lane Protector or Perimeter Defender

-Kyrie is a risk to leave if they suck again this year. I think Wiggins has the bigger impact in Year 1 and is has less injury risk

If you're concerned about your PG's defense, the rim-protecting 7'1 center is far more impactful than a lock-down wing defender. Basically disagree with your other two points too (bigger year 1 impact and not requiring the ball in hands with respect to Embiid).

The defense and play without ball in hands are reasons against Parker and likely Exum.

The main reason for Wiggins over Embiid would be the injury risk + taking longer to adjust. Almost all bigs struggle with fouls early on, easpcially those with only a few years experience